New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[soflorovers]

Well, it was sitting at about 370,000 kms, it needed all the control arms, rear brakes, emergency brake and the control box for the AB coil conversion kept acting up. I’d had to replace the instrument cluster, rad, coolant expansion tank and the conversion to coils, etc to the tune of about $6k so do do all the other stuff would have had me putting more money into the truck than it was worth. Plus the ongoing can bus issues from salt corrosion. The Jeep could get me to where I wanted to canoe and mt bike, pull my trailer and got much better gas mileage. Dealing with a longer commute, I pulled the trigger. However, the transmission issues and never finding a comfortable seating position had me looking for something else. I made the jump to a 4runner as the equivalent LR vehicle, an LR4, same year and mileage was more than I could afford at the time. I’m quite happy with the 4Runner. Comprendo now?

I don't blame you. As they get up in mileage, LR3s do come with a bit of a laundry list. Fortunately, most of these problems aren't major and don't prevent you from enjoying the vehicle. I've accepted that for the money, there's very little my LR3 can't do as a second car. That said, could you absolutely could daily drive an LR3 and keep it perfect/spotless? Absolutely, just be ready to spend some (not a ton) money. If you're willing to have a few minor issues, then they're hard to beat. Mine currently has: rear CVs are going; broken parking brake; failed o2 sensors and a bunch of little bits and pieces. Truck is still 100% operational and the rear HD axles were reasonably priced. I really don't understand the hate.

 

[WiscoinChicago]

I don't blame you. As they get up in mileage, LR3s do come with a bit of a laundry list. Fortunately, most of these problems aren't major and don't prevent you from enjoying the vehicle. I've accepted that for the money, there's very little my LR3 can't do as a second car. That said, could you absolutely could daily drive an LR3 and keep it perfect/spotless? Absolutely, just be ready to spend some (not a ton) money. If you're willing to have a few minor issues, then they're hard to beat. Mine currently has: rear CVs are going; broken parking brake; failed o2 sensors and a bunch of little bits and pieces. Truck is still 100% operational and the rear HD axles were reasonably priced. I really don't understand the hate.

I have a 2004 Land Cruiser and previously had a 2006 Land Rover. The Cruiser has an impeccable record, but it certainly isn't without fault. The timing belts need to be changed every 90k, the steering racks go between 150-200k, the plastic heater Ts have a tendency to fail dramatically, the lock cylinder shaft can snap stranding you, etc. The one thing that Toyota seems to have figured out is the electronics. If there's a fault, it pops a light, but you continue on your way uninterrupted, albeit maybe without ATRAC. On my LR3, an electric code would drop it onto the bump stops and you'd have to limp home. Honestly every problem I had with my LR3 has been well documented and solved by the aftermarket now. I've been looked at getting an LR4 or possible Defender in a few years once this pandemic stuff is done.

 

[soflorovers]

I have a 2004 Land Cruiser and previously had a 2006 Land Rover. The Cruiser has an impeccable record, but it certainly isn't without fault. The timing belts need to be changed every 90k, the steering racks go between 150-200k, the plastic heater Ts have a tendency to fail dramatically, the lock cylinder shaft can snap stranding you, etc. The one thing that Toyota seems to have figured out is the electronics. If there's a fault, it pops a light, but you continue on your way uninterrupted, albeit maybe without ATRAC. On my LR3, an electric code would drop it onto the bump stops and you'd have to limp home. Honestly every problem I had with my LR3 has been well documented and solved by the aftermarket now. I've been looked at getting an LR4 or possible Defender in a few years once this pandemic stuff is done.

I appreciate your take and contribution. Sums it up pretty well. FWIW, I almost leased a 2019 Taco TRD off-road as my DD since they're so damn cheap to lease. I wound up going for the complete polar opposite and getting a Hellcat, but that's besides the point. I've also put a couple hundred miles on my cousin's '08 Tacoma with 150k miles. If you drove it, you'd think it had 1/4 those miles, whereas my LR3 feels like it has double. There's no denying that Toyota makes a quality product. However, perhaps I didn't fully explain my original comment. If you want worry-free, then Toyota is your best bet. However, maybe I'm just wired wrong (just like my LRs!) and have a soft spot for things that I know will inevitably piss me off.

 

[REDROVER]

You forgot the freelader junk.

As far as your comment about my classic Range Rover being one of the most unreliable vehicles, that’s true, however I can fix that on the side of the road and keep going,
Who is gonna fix your new defender? Google ?
haha

 

[REDROVER]

More people agree with Scott here, because it’s Land Rover enthusiast section, that’s normal, what about general public?

I wanna agree wit him too but history shows that Toyota Land Cruiser and yearly 2000s Toyota SUVs get another level of love and respect all over the world.

 

[XJLI]

The early 2000s Toyota thing is a bit of confirmation bias IMHO. Yea, they are GREAT trucks. The 4.7 is legendary, the 3.4 is a cockroach, and everything is screwed together pretty well in everything besides a few outlying issues here and there. BUT- they last forever and hold such value because, people everywhere say they last forever and hold the trucks hold their value. A 2001 Tundra is just a disposable as a 2001 Silverado, and both are equally as reliable, and both will last 6-700k miles if they are maintained with the same level of care.

LC100s last forever in part to the fact that there are almost no aftermarket repair parts available for it. Something that would cost you $12 at the local parts store and work for a couple years for a domestic vehicle, does NOT exist in the LC world. You have to spend a few hundred bucks to get an OEM Toyota part. That does mean however, the part will last you another 10 years/100k miles. If every Ford/Chevy/Nissan/Whatever owner did that, and maintain vehciles without regard for our wallets like most Toyota fans do, we'd all be driving vehicles with 3/4 of a million miles on them that are reliable to take to Argentina and back.

My time with my Disco definitely showed the value in OEM parts. The aftermarket stuff most of the time was mostly poor quality, except for a some well documented cases. I went through two cheap radiators (one didnt even fit!) until I ponied up almost 600 bucks for an OEM one, which immediately solved my cooling issues at the time.

 

[LocoCoyote]

You forgot the freelader junk.

As far as your comment about my classic Range Rover being one of the most unreliable vehicles, that’s true, however I can fix that on the side of the road and keep going,
Who is gonna fix your new defender? Google ?
haha

You know, modern vehicles have been getting more technical for years now. The trick to fixing them in the field is to have the right tools. It’s just that with more modern vehicles, you need different tools.

 

[DorB]

Fans of the previous Defender will love the lofty driving position; it feels significantly higher than most of its rivals'. ...

I don’t see how someone who liked the roughness of the original Defender concept will “like” what the Difscovery has to offer, let alone able to buy it.

“Dead sheep and firewood in the back? Sure.. bring it on.., drill a hole for the torch charge stand? No problem”..

 

[DieselRanger]

I don’t see how someone who liked the roughness of the original Defender concept will “like” what the Difscovery has to offer, let alone able to buy it.

“Dead sheep and firewood in the back? Sure.. bring it on.., drill a hole for the torch charge stand? No problem”..

I don't think people who need to put dead sheep in the back would buy an SUV. I think they'd much rather have a cheap pickup, and already do - they are much better at that sort of thing anyway. This is an overlanding/expedition vehicle that, unlike its predecessor, is a joy to daily drive on normal roads.

The Defender hasn't been a farm implement for probably 40 years. Once it was renamed as the 90/110/130 it became a safari/expedition vehicle that may have become a farm vehicle in its third or fourth life, but likely only in surplus military or Commercial spec.

If you want an old Defender, go buy an old Defender. This one will sell very well for Land Rover.

 

[mpinco]

Looks like JLR is becoming a train wreck as sales slumped and covid-19 takes its toll.

VP of marketing steps down
CEO asked to delay retirement
Bond ratings decline, lending cost increase
Sales off 30% and that doesn't include the full impact of Covid-19

Time to cut models and refocus

 

[EricTyrrell]

I don't think people who need to put dead sheep in the back would buy an SUV. I think they'd much rather have a cheap pickup, and already do - they are much better at that sort of thing anyway. This is an overlanding/expedition vehicle that, unlike its predecessor, is a joy to daily drive on normal roads.

The Defender hasn't been a farm implement for probably 40 years. Once it was renamed as the 90/110/130 it became a safari/expedition vehicle that may have become a farm vehicle in its third or fourth life, but likely only in surplus military or Commercial spec.

If you want an old Defender, go buy an old Defender. This one will sell very well for Land Rover.

Funny, the competition produce vehicles that accomplish all the above, spanking LR in every market they once dominated. Are they going to claw any of it back? Not a chance. Too little, too late.

 

[DorB]

I don't think people who need to put dead sheep in the back would buy an SUV. .

Exactly.
The Defender was a real working platform.
The Difscivery is an SUV.
Seems like a very capable one, but an SUV.

Farm/NGO/Army/camel trophy, you name it.
And yes, farmers/working people do need sometimes to move a dead something/dirty stuff in the back.
In the end of the day, you just wash it with a hose..

And no,
The majority of Defenders around the world are working platforms, not recreational/expedition etc.
That’s a fraction of the use.
Go to any 3rd world places and see for yourself.

 

[nickw]

Exactly.
The Defender was a real working platform.
The Difescivery is a SUV.
Seems like a very capable one, but an SUV.

Farm/NGO/Army/camel trophy, you name it.
And yes, farmers/working people do need sometimes to move a dead something/dirty stuff in the back.
In the end of the day, you just wash it with a hose..

And no,
The majority of Defenders around the world are working platforms, not recreational/expedition etc.
That’s a fraction of the use.
Go to any 3rd world places and see for yourself.

Difescivery? You need to work on your trolling a bit....maybe Defscovery or Difescovery if so, that would have been kinda funny....

Mercedes Sedans are every bit as working class as a old Defender....same could be said for the Ford Crown Vic or even the Prius, both which serve working class roles and are a helluva lot more comfortable than an older Defender day in/day out...they may not be farm rigs, but they also don't need to be to be a good working class rig.

Based on what we've seen, the Defender platform is going to be tough and reliable, mechanically. They walk that fine line of making something robust, but also comfortable, powerful while hitting a price point.

Have you done a long trip in a older rig like a Defender? Everybody has a different tolerance for punishment, but my old FJ40, I did several and it was never comfortable....it was an adventure for sure...but not something I could do day in and day out.

 

[nickw]

If I am not number one at least I’m number 2 critic of the new defender,
But let’s give it a chance,

Times have changed and auto industry has to adapt
Yes Land Rover At some point dominated the segment but it’s not anymore and we cannot do anything about it.
By the way this is not a LAND ROVER problem this is a European mentality problem that is changing.

Can you compare new Mercedes to Older built like a tank Mercedes?
same goes with the BMW or a jaguar or even a Ferrari.

Farmers wouldn’t buy LAND ROVER anyways, even if it was still like the old defender , Toyota pushed LAND ROVER away long time ago

Let’s give the new defender a chance .

Can you compare a new mercedes to an old one....I kinda don't think so. But in saying that, we said the same thing about the Toyota IFS trucks...they don't compare to the old straight axles. Then the Tacoma, worthless compared to the older Hilux trucks of the late 80's early 90's. Well then the 2nd gen Tacoma was worthless compared to the older gen Tacoma. Now the new Tacoma compared to the 2nd gen Tacoma....

Can do the same for the Landcruisers. I remember when the 80 series first came out, total soccer mom car....then the 100 series, it isn't a 'real' cruiser, now the 200....

No different for the BMW's, I had a buddy with a 3.0 CS from the 70's, last 'real' BMW...then the awesome M3's of the 80's, then the M3's of the 90s, then the M3's with the V8's from the 2000's....same ol' broken record

 

[EricTyrrell]

Based on what they've told us, the Defender platform is going to be tough and reliable, mechanically.

FTFY

Big difference.