New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[blackangie]

Except when the ground is like marbles under all 4 wheels. TC hunts and fails on hill climbs. TC's weak mode is depending on at least one or two wheels having a surface that it can grab onto to continue forward momentum. Defenders with lockers walk right up as all four wheels work.

Note: The 'demo' was the LR sponsored day trip attended by all flavors of Rovers and 'technology'. Wife won the teeter-toter event with our D1. Shortest time to balance point.

I would say based on Moab testing vids, TR2 looks to have solved that if it was true.

Defender 7 - EN - Defender 7 - EN

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From 2mins, traction looks insane, im guessing has rear locker

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[blackangie]

I'm referring to Arb lockers. Easily installed. Does the new Defender have a front diff locker?

Point is TC has limitations and requires momentum. That is a old discussion.

Doesnt need one, simply put, rear, centre locker and TR2 will get you just about anywhere on earth imo

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[mpinco]

I misspelled a word on a cell phone. Wow.

Have a nice life Pilat .....

 

[Pilat]

I would say based on Moab testing vids, TR2 looks to have solved that if it was true.

Defender 7 - EN - Defender 7 - EN

This is "Defender 7 - EN" by Jaguar Land Rover on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

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From 2mins, traction looks insane, im guessing has rear locker

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Also take a look at 2.20 onwards. It sure looks like the front right up in the air isn't getting "all the power", but that the Defender is actually able to direct it to the front left. As we knew it would.

 

[Pilat]

I misspelled a word on a cell phone. Wow.

Have a nice life Pilat .....

It wasn't merely a misspelled word. It was a great example of you not understanding what you wrote when you tried to pass off your supposed anecdote as empirical data supporting an uninformed position. It showed just how little you understood of science and what "empirical data" is.

 

[mpinco]

I would say based on Moab testing vids, TR2 looks to have solved that if it was true...

Moab is slick rock, not broken down granite / marbles. Always a solid surface for one or two wheels.

I'm sure TC2 is improved, higher sampling rates and corresponding algorithms. That doesn't change the limitations on marbles. That is where driver skills come into play or make alternative route planning.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Yes, it's an old discussion. And every time progress is made, there are always naysayers. Especially when it comes to vehicles and hobbies. Some always resort to "the old was better" despite evidence to the contrary.
It was time to update the Defender so it can once again be the best off roader LR makes. During the last couple of decades it was staying where it was, left behind by more modern approaches that works better in a wider range of scenarios.

I agree than older is not better, but newer is not better either. Better is better. The Wrangler and classic Defender, by the numbers, and by experience, are superior in terms of capability to newer LRs, which the new Defender is strikingly similar.

You get hung up on the locker issue, but any comparison to the classic is not black and white. It's nuanced by a few considerations. First, late Defenders introduced traction control. Second, Series and Defenders have had lockers of various types fitted to them fitted since the beginning. This is where their simplicity and flexibility benefits their potential capability. Third, these can be mixed in many combinations, just as a Wrangler can be. These are not rock crawlers, just common configurations.

 

[Pilat]

Moab is slick rock, not broken down granite / marbles. Always a solid surface for one or two wheels.

I'm sure TC2 is improved, higher sampling rates and corresponding algorithms. That doesn't change the limitations on marbles. That is where driver skills come into play or make alternative route planning.

So, wait: Now, the argument is not that an older tech is better, but that the new can't be good, because on a certain surface "That is where driver skills come into play or make alternative route planning".

 

[A.J.M]

Out of interest.

how many of you have actually sat in, and driven the old defender?

 

[Pilat]

I agree than older is not better, but newer is not better either. Better is better. The Wrangler and classic Defender, by the numbers, and by experience, are superior in terms of capability to newer LRs, which the new Defender is strikingly similar.

You get hung up on the locker issue, but any comparison to the classic is not black and white. It's nuanced by a few considerations. First, late Defenders introduced traction control. Second, Series and Defenders have had lockers of various types fitted to them fitted since the beginning. This is where their simplicity and flexibility benefits their capability.

First off, I don't get "hung up" on the locker issue. Mpinco did. I responded to his hang-ups about the "hd lockers" and whatnot.

I disagree that the old defender and wrangler are better in capabilities. It may be a simpler vehicle which has its charm (no doubt), but it is not more capable than this new one. The old defender was lagging decades behind in capabilites before they stopped production.

As for the Wrangler. Yes, you can alter it to make it a perfect rock crawler, but as far as I'm concerned that's about the only good thing about it.

I am glad that the Defender seems to once again be ahead of its siblings at Land Rover. That is what the Defender is to me: The best and most capable off roader land rover can make. Not a luxury Range Rover, not a Disco, but better. More capable. And they seem to have finally done it.

I'm glad the old one is gone. Good riddance. Now Land Rover can focus on making some standard setting vehicle again (WRT capabilites).

 

[EricTyrrell]

Out of interest.

how many of you have actually sat in, and driven the old defender?

I owned or own a D1, D90, and LR3.

 

[Pilat]

Out of interest.

how many of you have actually sat in, and driven the old defender?

I have. Hated the thing. Never bought one myself, but my mate had one (he might still have it).

 

[billiebob]

If you think carburetor-era vehicles were bulletproof for life, your memory is failing you.

I've never had an old carbureted 4x4 suddenly die. When they have problems they give you plenty of lead time to fix the issue before they die. But new 4x4s can go into the limp mode for the silliest reasons and when the suddenly die, it is instant and often unrelated to the condition of the engine or powertrain, a switch just gets switched and the vehicle dies.

German high end cars actually will not let you boost a dead battery. The instruction is deck it to a dealer to have all the nanny systems rebooted. Even worse, few dealers have a clue about trouble shooting thier cars. But they know how to run in circles and charge $500 for "It does not appear to be doing it now, bring it back when it is."

But brand new, when all the stars are in alignment and the vehicle is running as designed.... sure new high tech nanny controlled vehicles are incredible.... until they die.

And yes, the new Defender is one of the best.

 

[EricTyrrell]

If the new Defender proves itself by emerging as a valuable workhorse and apex recreational 4x4, I'll consider it a Defender. However, I'd say the odds of it becoming a common sight among farmers, contractors, law enforcement, oil and gas exploration, mining operations, military, NGO logistics, is very slim. They're going to continue using body-on-frame coil/leaf sprung Toyota/Ford/GM/Nissan 4x4 pickups, utes, and SUVs.

I'd says the odds in the recreational world are slim as well. Just look at the latest Expo article: https://expeditionportal.com/the-best-of-sema-overland-2019/
It's loads of apparently primitive 4x4s, including a classic Defender, and zero newer Land Rovers of any sort.

 

[Pilat]

I don't think farmers have bought land rover Defenders for decades. Especially not the expensive old Defender in its senior years before they stopped production.

I think that is a weird criterion for "success" of this. As is the one about having it replace pickup trucks.