That's not a digital render. That's a fish-eye lens with photos/renders for the "view" through the windows.
New Defender Rage/Hate Thread
- Thread starter DieselRanger
- Start date
That's not a digital render. That's a fish-eye lens with photos/renders for the "view" through the windows.
At 2X the price?
Air suspension is nice but....
Solid axles have advantages
Everyone now has TC
Again, Luxury and priced accordingly. That is LRs choice which is fine. Just hope they can justify 2X. In case you haven't noticed LRs previous differentiators have been commoditized. Volume will be the judge.
Of the old Defender?
But what?
Yes. The few advantages are that they are cheap. They are easy to weld shut. And they are cheap.
Great argument "Everyone has xx", therefore the Defender shouldn't have it. I'm surprised you're not raging against those "weird" modern inventions such as shock absorbers/dampers, and especially those pesky pneumatic tyres. Everyone else - quite literally - have those things, so it must be bad.
Yeah, it's solely about differentiation and avoiding using anything that others use to their advantage. Let me remind you about those damn pneumatic tyres. They are a "commodity", so they must be bad.
I know you have me on block and can only see my post if someone else quotes my posts, but I have to say I salute your eagerness to want the Defender to avoid anything modern. And if you were actually serious, your argument would indeed include such things as pneumatic tyres (both tubeless and tubed), the position of the pedals (or even using pedals), and of course such things as bearings, universal joints and so on.
blackangie
Well-known member
I read somewhere, LR said, "if you like the old defender better than the new one, find yourself an old one" i would add or keep the one you have got and be happy for those that want to get the new.
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Yup. He seems to be against using anything anyone else is using. Even the Series 1 used parts and solutions used by others. But, yeah, he is definitely in the camp of "series 1 was perfect in every way, can never be outdone by anyone or anything".
blackangie
Well-known member
Mate 2x the price??, seriously are you talking AU dollars.
The MSRP for the new Def is US49k
Look at the base price of the 110, then look at what the 90 will be, then look at how much it will be without air susp when that option arrives, then look at what the commercial will be.
We are looking at a AU50k commercial 90 in Australia by my calcs..thats US35k
Why sensationalize the facts in the negative without showing the possibility of a low dollar option that's still highly speced.
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See the Jeep pic I referenced for $50K, which included the diesel option at $4K. That's brand new, US dollar. Then consider the LA show pricing for the D110
110FE (first edition) - $68,650 plus options
110X - $80,900K plus options
Optioned closely the D110 will be close to $80K-$90K. Apples to apples? No because of how manufacturers package options. Plus I can't get a diesel D110 but I do expect that to be another price adder in the range of $2-3K. The wild card? Dealers will negotiate on Jeeps while LR will be firm for the first 3 to 4 years until depreciation rates become established. In addition I expect LR dealers to stock loaded models. Plus Jeeps now all support the infotainment commodity stuff. All manufacturers are virtually the same, QNX based.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
Inaccurate. There are reasons that nearly every true utility vehicle uses them; everything from a Wrangler and G-wagen, to mid and full-size trucks, to every medium duty truck and semi out there. Countless vehicles use them today and will continue to. The kind that are actually used for off-roading and hard work far more often. They’re simple, easy to repair, very strong, articulate very well when coil sprung, simple to align, and move vertically with constant track width. The Defender used to be a utility vehicle too. It needed updated in the saw way other utility vehicles have been successfully updated, not replaced with a luxury car. Imagine if the early F250 had evolved into something like the Ridgeline instead of the SuperDuty. Sad times.
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EricTyrrell
Expo God
That’s a verbose way of saying the Range Rover is a Bentley, the Discovery is a Range Rover, and the Defender is dead.Industry press is not landrover, you claimed LR said they moved the defender into the luxury market, that is false.
Defender is the modern interpretation of the same vehicle, being more capable, reliable and durable says it all, despite actually (heaven forbid being comfortable for more than 1hr behind the wheel)
They moved the Disco towards were RR was, RR into even more luxury market.
Defender has been updated to modern utilitarian standards, you can spec it basic or very comfortable, but not luxury. Go and sit in a RR vogue autobiography, that's the definition of luxury.
100% you can spec the defender with some luxury seats and removable carpet mats ontop of the rubber floor, this doesn't make it a luxury SUV, tones of people add that to the old defender too
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EricTyrrell
Expo God
Did you guys hear that the new Defender does not have solid axles? and no carburator? None of us will be able to take it to Africa. At best you may be able to drive it to Whole Foods in Palo Alto. If you're lucky.
It didn’t need a carburetor. It needed the simplest interpretation of modern technology possible.
LOL, you disagree, and then as examples you choose two really, really oldschool vehicles as examples.
Great. If you want to play the numbers game, how many cars have independent suspension? I realise that many more (percentage-wise) of US cars have solid axles (it has been a standing joke in Europe for about four decades that the US thinks they're still driving tractors or motorised carriages - with the handling to match).
And you mention the Wrangler: A great example of an enthusiast car where a lot of them are quickly lifted and have the differential welded shut to make them into rock crawlers.
As for the G-wagon you mention? Have you seen the new one? The AMG? It's ridiculous, and certainly not intended to be the best off-road in any way, form, or fashion.
So, all in all, I don't think much of your arguments. Yes, a tractor can probably better be serviced almost regardless of the tech and skill available. That doesn't make it a better vehicle.
And speaking of hard work: How much can that wrangler in your example tow and carry? How much can the G-wagon tow and carry? And how much can this "not suitable for actual work" tow and carry?
How the hell did you manage to twist what was said into that?
Weird. I think the Defender should be the best offroader Land Rover can make, and not "the most basic vehicle LR can get away with".
But I guess we have different ideas.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
I don’t want another old Defender. I want a new Defender that occupies the same niche, applies the same purpose and philosophy as the original, but in the context of 2020. Instead, we got a better Discovery. In modern terms, it should have occupied a space somewhere between the Wrangler, Gladiator, Bronco, G-wagen, RAM 1500, and Ford SuperDuty. Not exactly like any of them, but somewhere between is an honest and modern interpretation.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
They were supposed to do both.