New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[T-Willy]

The founder of this site was just interviewed about his Africa trek in the new Rover. He said best comparison to existing vehicles here would be the 4runner. I have yet to see a 4 runner rated at 2000lb load capacity and the ones I’ve driven were pretty lousy when loaded heavy 1000-1200lbs regarding stability.
So again if your thinking this new Rover is going to be magically endowed with a payload higher than larger vehicles your living in a world the rest of us clearly don’t live in.

Defender's payload exceeds that of any other 4x4 wagon available in the U.S.--Expedition, Tahoe, Suburban, and 200 Series.

This accommodates the extra weight of bringing a Land Rover service representative on your trip, so that they and not you can hike out and make the call to activate warranty assistance while broken down (edit: with grey poupon) on a remote beach in Baja.

 

[naks]

...Now how much comfort does an overlander, one who supposedly embraces discomfort, need?

wow... I cannot recall the last time I saw something so stupid being said by anyone, whether online or IRL...

 

[EricTyrrell]

Overlanders embracing discomfort is one, no ten, of the dumbest things I have ever heard. My word man, have you never gone driving off road?

No, why would I do that? It's too bumpy, my trail martinis get shaken not stirred, paint gets scratched, takes forever to wash the mud off, dust irritates my allergies, bugs enter open windows, man bun gets all dusty, can't find a bathroom or anywhere, Panda Express won't deliver to GPS coordinates. It's awful. #neveragain

 

[EricTyrrell]

wow... I cannot recall the last time I saw something so stupid being said by anyone, whether online or IRL...

It's obvious this is your type of overlanding.

 

[DieselRanger]

They're harsh, but you get used to it, and at the end of the day still arrive at the destination. Back to Jeeps and trucks.. You're talking modern dual coil-sprung or leaf/coal sprung vehicles which are far better. Go test drive either setup. Ride quality is a non-issue.

Uh, OK, the last time I was in a brand-new Wrangler Rubicon 2-door with 35's driving down the highway at 75mph, it was like riding a blind horse with one leg longer than the other. ************** thing was all over the road, bouncing around over pavement joints and tramlining. A fart of a breeze from either side and it was heeling over like a clipper in a gale. No thanks.

True story: two weeks later the left rear hub sheared clean off and the whole wheel went bouncing down the highway. Luckily it was a good friend's, it was 6am on a Sunday with no traffic, and it was a rear wheel so he could control it and didn't die. First and last Heep he ever owned. Great off-road at 15mph or less though. He tried a couple Grand Cherokees after that but got sick and tired of the poor reliability of Jeeps and bought a used 1-year old Raptor ("never jumped" - LOL) off lease. He loves it, but hasn't yet added the customary Monster Energy decals nor has he tatoo'd his trucker arm. He has started wearing flat-brim ballcaps though.

 

[DieselRanger]

Says the guy who can't hit a dirt road without his balls being coddled in the latest air-suspension technology. Beginning to see why the spa day crowd here prefers the new Defender.

Not gonna lie, it's a lot nicer floating over washboards vs. feeling every single one and hoping you don't skitter off into the ditch. Windsor leather feels great, too - adjustable bolsters hug you like your English granny at tea time. Probably just as nice as all those ostrich-leather seats I see on the mall-crawler jeep crowd.

 

[DieselRanger]

No, why would I do that? It's too bumpy, my trail martinis get shaken not stirred, paint gets scratched, takes forever to wash the mud off, dust irritates my allergies, bugs enter open windows, man bun gets all dusty, can't find a bathroom or anywhere, Panda Express won't deliver to GPS coordinates. It's awful. #neveragain

You do understand the point of overlanding, right? Overlanding != technical rock crawling. It's glamping on wheels. Have you even looked at any of the feature articles on the front of this site?

I like making cast-iron cobbler and ribeyes over a fire while enjoying cold beer, and when that runs out, some wine or whiskey, and having a nice comfy air mattress to sleep on (RTT is on the list). Not even a hipster *or* a millennial. Just a guy approaching 50 fast with a lower back that has a lot of mileage on it from a previous career, enough money to afford nice things, and a family I like to see happy when we're outside together. Roughing it is for time with the bros when we're climbing peaks or backcountry skiing...and then the relative magic carpet ride up and down the trail and home with the seat heaters on is extra nice.

I don't need things to be difficult to be enjoyable any more - I did when I was younger, but I've outgrown it. Not judging if you still need that as part of your life, embrace the suck while you can.

 

[nickw]

No, why would I do that? It's too bumpy, my trail martinis get shaken not stirred, paint gets scratched, takes forever to wash the mud off, dust irritates my allergies, bugs enter open windows, man bun gets all dusty, can't find a bathroom or anywhere, Panda Express won't deliver to GPS coordinates. It's awful. #neveragain

There is nothing wrong with trail martinis, not wanting to scratch paint, not wanting mosquitoes up in your rig, I'm guilty of it all....but epic fail on your part, no way would the Defender crowd eat at Panda Express, much more of a Jeep thing, Whole Paycheck though, yes....but I'm guessing you eat at WF so you didn't wanna sorta throw yourself under the bus....but I do draw the line @ Man Buns...

And I'll be the first to admit, after a long day racing MTB's in the rain or a big moto trip, hoping in a nice comfy rig that I can just zone out in, listen to some music, heated seats, stable, no rattles.....nope, don't feel bad at all for appreciating that.....

 

[EricTyrrell]

Uh, OK, the last time I was in a brand-new Wrangler Rubicon 2-door with 35's driving down the highway at 75mph, it was like riding a blind horse with one leg longer than the other. ************** thing was all over the road, bouncing around over pavement joints and tramlining. A fart of a breeze from either side and it was heeling over like a clipper in a gale. No thanks.

True story: two weeks later the left rear hub sheared clean off and the whole wheel went bouncing down the highway. Luckily it was a good friend's, it was 6am on a Sunday with no traffic, and it was a rear wheel so he could control it and didn't die. First and last Heep he ever owned.

Great off-road at 15mph or less though.

A two-door Jeep is a relatively rough ride, but should be perfectly usable. That Jeep sounds like a lemon or someone screwed it up.

 

[DieselRanger]

A two-door Jeep is a relatively rough ride, but should be perfectly usable. That Jeep sounds like a lemon or someone screwed it up.

Maybe, but it was only a few months old at the time. Was great off road at 15mph or less. He didn't upgrade the axles so maybe the tires were too beaucoup. He tried a few JGCs after that but their reliability was such ******** he dumped both and bought a Raptor. Too much truck for Colorado IMO, but great in the desert - the USAF bought a ton of the first generation for security forces to use on Utah and Nevada Test and Training Ranges, and I think they took all the mufflers off. Could hear those coming a looooong way off, sounded like frickin' NASCAR in the desert.

 

[mpinco]

I hate to burst all the bubbles on both sides of the discussion but the reality is that the auto industry is headed for a major revamp, top to bottom. Jaguar Land Rover owner's Tata Motors India business HAS NO VALUE, CLSA says. The 2020 product launches were still born, dead, DOA. Avis is in trouble, Hertz cancelled 90% of their new vehicle orders. The commercial sector is frozen while the private sector cost of credit is rising. Into this headwind JLR's plans are for a $100K+ virtual LR4 rebadged as a SVO? Time to wake up, which it appears some are.

With the backdrop that JLR has lost billions and Jaguar and Land Rover engineering have been 'rationalized' into a single team, JLR is moving forward. Jaguar racing are on the chopping block. Where is JLR headed given that the restart of sales will be 2021 models with a mid-range that will see Ford Bronco and improved Rubicon's? Maybe even a Ineos Grenadier? Let the $100K LR4 be your guide. The 'design language', previously criticized here, is about to change again.

Jaguar To Come Up With A Bolder Design Language For A Higher Brand Appeal

".....It has come to light that Jaguar plans to prepare a sharper brand identity through a new design language that will be bolder in nature. Speaking to a media outlet, Julian Thomson, Design Direction, Jaguar, said, “In the past few months, we have been experimenting with the boundaries of what the brand can be. Now is the time for changing the backdrop and to really start afresh.” The design chief has revealed that the company has become more modern and have been on an expansion spree.......

......At the moment, the company’s product portfolio carries a typical family look, with all the cars sharing many signature styling elements......

.......“I want to move away from the middle ground and do things which are a little bit more exotic “I don’t want to keep chasing the pack. Jaguar is about innovation. It should be about leading and setting the pace.” he further added............"

JLR will be moving upmarket to more exotic, more modern products to differentiate them from the competition and justify the much higher cost.





https://gaadiwaadi.com/jaguar-to-come-up-with-a-bolder-design-language-for-a-higher-brand-appeal/

 

[EricTyrrell]

You do understand the point of overlanding, right? Overlanding != technical rock crawling. It's glamping on wheels. Have you even looked at any of the feature articles on the front of this site?

I like making cast-iron cobbler and ribeyes over a fire while enjoying cold beer, and when that runs out, some wine or whiskey, and having a nice comfy air mattress to sleep on (RTT is on the list). Not even a hipster *or* a millennial. Just a guy approaching 50 fast with a lower back that has a lot of mileage on it from a previous career, enough money to afford nice things, and a family I like to see happy when we're outside together. Roughing it is for time with the bros when we're climbing peaks or backcountry skiing...and then the relative magic carpet ride up and down the trail and home with the seat heaters on is extra nice.

I don't need things to be difficult to be enjoyable any more - I did when I was younger, but I've outgrown it. Not judging if you still need that as part of your life, embrace the suck while you can.

Couldn't help but notice Expo's ads..


We've got a sailboat, adv bikes, Jeep, horse, and classic LRs. Doesn't look like glamping. There certainly is that side to Expo and some overlanding, but it's not my thing. Your air mattress, cast-iron, camp stoves, coolers, etc are all examples of adapting to nature's lack of amenities and embracing what discomfort is not overcome for the purpose of adventure. We drive rough roads, navigate with some degree of uncertainty, prepare meals with relatively primitive tools, go without endless water, sleep in cramped non-air conditioned quarters, and generally travel in conditions inferior to life at home. Sometimes we even get our boots muddy. Don't pretend overlanders don't embrace discomfort for a purpose. I don't need difficulty to prove anything, but I don't mind it either. I've been no less comfortable driving my TJ, D1, LR3, or coil/leaf sprung F150 on multi-day off-road trips. I'm too busy enjoying not being stuck in the office.

 

[Victory_Overland]

wow... I cannot recall the last time I saw something so stupid being said by anyone, whether online or IRL...

Like so many of us have said so many times ?; until the next time he posts.

Advice from a guy who's on a Land Rover forum telling the Land Rover community, the Toyota community, the Jeep community, and the "OVERLAND World" what the "OFF-ROAD" community needs; drives a practical F150 but can't even prove that part!

Do we really need to say more about relevant opinion, knowledge, and advice?

No, why would I do that? It's too bumpy, my trail martinis get shaken not stirred, paint gets scratched, takes forever to wash the mud off, dust irritates my allergies, bugs enter open windows, man bun gets all dusty, can't find a bathroom or anywhere, Panda Express won't deliver to GPS coordinates. It's awful. #neveragain

Advice from a guy who's on a Land Rover forum telling the Land Rover community, the Toyota community, the Jeep community, and the "OVERLAND World" what the "OFF-ROAD" community needs; drives a practical F150 but can't even prove that part!

Do we really need to say more about relevant opinion, knowledge, and advice?

You have to like the way it sucks or your balls are too small...or something.

Advice from a guy who's on a Land Rover forum telling the Land Rover community, the Toyota community, the Jeep community, and the "OVERLAND World" what the "OFF-ROAD" community needs; drives a practical F150 but can't even prove that part!

Do we really need to say more about relevant opinion, knowledge, and advice?

Says the guy who can't hit a dirt road without his balls being coddled in the latest air-suspension technology. Beginning to see why the spa day crowd here prefers the new Defender.

Keep thinking that when I know the best and fully qualified baddest ************ on the planet in Special Operations have air ride, ventilated air condition and heated seats, traction control, a million redundant ECU's, and 4 wheel Independent long travel suspensions on their daily rides in combat.......oh and did I mention "And NEEEEEEEEEEEEW" fully electric, 400 mile range in off-road conditions, w/4 combat loaded SOF personnel, 2 x medium guns to boot, solar charged and power regeneration tactical UTV's with or without 28vdc electric powered miniguns and 3000 rounds 7.62?

And I'll follow up with...........?

Advice from a guy who's on a Land Rover forum telling the Land Rover community, the Toyota community, the Jeep community, and the "OVERLAND World" what the "OFF-ROAD" community needs; drives a practical F150 but can't even prove that part!

Do we really need to say more about relevant opinion, knowledge, and advice?

Not gonna lie, it's a lot nicer floating over washboards vs. feeling every single one and hoping you don't skitter off into the ditch. Windsor leather feels great, too - adjustable bolsters hug you like your English granny at tea time. Probably just as nice as all those ostrich-leather seats I see on the mall-crawler jeep crowd.

See above post from SOF guys; G-Wagon MilSpecs have it too. Oh, and then there is...............?

Advice from a guy who's on a Land Rover forum telling the Land Rover community, the Toyota community, the Jeep community, and the "OVERLAND World" what the "OFF-ROAD" community needs; drives a practical F150 but can't even prove that part!

Do we really need to say more about relevant opinion, knowledge, and advice?

 

[DieselRanger]

Couldn't help but notice Expo's ads..
View attachment 586842View attachment 586840View attachment 586843View attachment 586844View attachment 586841

We've got a sailboat, adv bikes, Jeep, horse, and classic LRs. Doesn't look like glamping. There certainly is that side to Expo and some overlanding, but it's not my thing. Your air mattress, cast-iron, camp stoves, coolers, etc are all examples of adapting to nature's lack of amenities and embracing what discomfort is not overcome for the purpose of adventure. We drive rough roads, navigate with some degree of uncertainty, prepare meals with relatively primitive tools, go without endless water, sleep in cramped non-air conditioned quarters, and generally travel in conditions inferior to life at home. Sometimes we even get our boots muddy. Don't pretend overlanders don't embrace discomfort for a purpose. I don't need difficulty to prove anything, but I don't mind it either. I've been no less comfortable driving my TJ, D1, LR3, or coil/leaf sprung F150 on multi-day off-road trips. I'm too busy enjoying not being stuck in the office.

Ok, your definition of "discomfort" is different than mine I guess. Traveling in a vehicle with soft seats and comfy highway cruising and sleeping on a 3" closed cell foam mattress in a RTT or air cushion in the cargo area, and eating "real" whole foods ( not the store, the preparation) cooked over a fire instead of carrying your life on your back, sleeping on a 1"thick air mattress and eating rehydrated styrofoam in a pouch at the mouth of a snow cave or in a windbreak above treeline is practically the Four Seasons in comparison.

The latter is necessary when it serves a greater purpose, the former is just enjoyable. I happen to like having a comfy driving vehicle to do it in too, and modern Land Rovers fit that bill perfectly - my D5 takes me wherever I want to go.

 

[DieselRanger]

I hate to burst all the bubbles on both sides of the discussion but the reality is that the auto industry is headed for a major revamp, top to bottom. Jaguar Land Rover owner's Tata Motors India business HAS NO VALUE, CLSA says. The 2020 product launches were still born, dead, DOA. Avis is in trouble, Hertz cancelled 90% of their new vehicle orders. The commercial sector is frozen while the private sector cost of credit is rising. Into this headwind JLR's plans are for a $100K+ virtual LR4 rebadged as a SVO? Time to wake up, which it appears some are.

With the backdrop that JLR has lost billions and Jaguar and Land Rover engineering have been 'rationalized' into a single team, JLR is moving forward. Jaguar racing are on the chopping block. Where is JLR headed given that the restart of sales will be 2021 models with a mid-range that will see Ford Bronco and improved Rubicon's? Maybe even a Ineos Grenadier? Let the $100K LR4 be your guide. The 'design language', previously criticized here, is about to change again.

Jaguar To Come Up With A Bolder Design Language For A Higher Brand Appeal

".....It has come to light that Jaguar plans to prepare a sharper brand identity through a new design language that will be bolder in nature. Speaking to a media outlet, Julian Thomson, Design Direction, Jaguar, said, “In the past few months, we have been experimenting with the boundaries of what the brand can be. Now is the time for changing the backdrop and to really start afresh.” The design chief has revealed that the company has become more modern and have been on an expansion spree.......

......At the moment, the company’s product portfolio carries a typical family look, with all the cars sharing many signature styling elements......

.......“I want to move away from the middle ground and do things which are a little bit more exotic “I don’t want to keep chasing the pack. Jaguar is about innovation. It should be about leading and setting the pace.” he further added............"

JLR will be moving upmarket to more exotic, more modern products to differentiate them from the competition and justify the much higher cost.





https://gaadiwaadi.com/jaguar-to-come-up-with-a-bolder-design-language-for-a-higher-brand-appeal/

Jaguar.