New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[soflorovers]

how’s the new Land Rover ( AKA) Kia Soul sells going ? Have they Even sold any?
bad sign when even in LA u can’t see one driving around.

Go on Autotrader. There are only 205 "New" Defenders in the USA. I've been trying to contact dealers to find one with the rear locker, and most (if not all) are going for over MSRP. Seems to me that demand is far exceeds supply. You can't see any driving around because the plant was shuttered for months and deliveries were originally scheduled to commence in April (Before COVID19). So...try again?

Edited because I have fat fingers*

 

[Highlander]

What happened was LR did some genetic engineering, and went from a medieval courser to a Viszla overnight. They didn't have the resources to gradually evolve it while they focused on the volume sellers. You can look at the Range Rover and no one would say the current one isn't true to and a clear evolution of the original.

Criticize 1997 Land Rover for not evolving the Defender, but 2020 Land Rover corrected that oversight. Ironically, had they not gone off and done the Evoque, they would be just another brand in the dustbin of history right now.

I may have never mentioned it here but I have been always critical to the original LRD especially for unwillingness to bring changes, the evolutionary changes, and address the quality issues.
Past early 90s LR did actually stop caring about the Def it ended up at the mercy of the aftermarket. By this time LR had become a joke in terms of built quality.
And yes you right they suddenly gave us a new vehicle after had been ignoring it for 20+ years.

Is it a great vehicle what they gave us? Yes it is. (I wrote about it a few pages behind). It is a great vehicle for the purpose they think is not longer supposed to be the original. (my personal opinion)

Would I ever buy it? Yes, if I could afford it and also being able to find a strip down version with tow and offroad package. (as utilitarian as it is available in the US market)

When I do find, would I ever drive it to say form the lower 48 to all they way to Alaska or Hudson bay or Labrador? Yes, maybe, I was stupid enough to drive my Saab on the BLM roads in MT, Idaho and Nevada.

 

[T-Willy]

There is such an incredible market in the US and across the World for Purpose-Built-Heritage-Leaning Designed 4x4s and they are licenses to print money...

Completely agree. This is evidenced in the U.S. by years of off-the-charts Wrangler sales and now unbridled enthusiasm over the new Bronco and to a lesser degree Grenadier. I hope others, most notably Toyota, get in the game.

 

[DieselRanger]

how’s the new Land Rover ( AKA) Kia Soul sells going ? Have they Even sold any?
bad sign when even in LA u can’t see one driving around.

My local dealer is going gangbusters. 20+ orders in a two week period, plus pre-orders. I think they're sold out of allocations through October.

Recall their planned production ramp up in Slovakia was delayed because of COVID.

 

[mpinco]

This sort of glitchy tech is precisely what I don't want on a touring vehicle. It is the opposite of simplicity; needless, glitchy expense.

Excellent opportunity for Land Rover to demonstrate their new Software Over The Air update capability, that's if they trust it and it is operational. This could go the other way and demonstrate that LR is not ready with that capability which would highlight your point.

 

[calicamper]

I double check my that my keys are in my ziplock bag when backpacking.

Double checking has caused me to lose my keys or phone countless times. Check for my key, phone falls out. Check for my phone, keys fall out. I just leave the keys in the truck now. Travel with the crank relay instead.

We always left a key at the car when back packing. It came in handy many times usually so someone other than the original driver can drive the car. Not to mention giving a few backpackers a ride because they lost their key they took back packing.

 

[DieselRanger]

I suspect the CFO of JLR might have a different take on that outcome as they stare $8B in debt and stagnant sales in the face. While Evoque, a fashion statement, has sold well the question on the table is did that move to 'fashion' distract JLR from its core value proposition/s on Defender, Discovery and XJ. Did 'fashion' and that defocus create the financial mess that has some wondering if JLR will exist. They are clearly headed for restructuring, redundancies and a new CEO as Tata looks for partners.

Imagine if Jeep has gone down the fashion path. Or, just look at today's Blazer for a statement on fashion and 'modernist' interpretation of the K5.

Every automaker needs a volume model to sell at high margins to drive revenue, and they need that income to justify borrowing cash against new models. Had they never invested in the Evoque, they would never have been able to justify the value to Tata when Ford put them on the auction block, and it was rich Uncle Tata's initial investment that allowed JLR to pursue the production and quality control investments that are only now beginning to bear fruit. That's not an overnight process. Had they never done that, Land Rover would be a memory, because selling 500 to a thousand copies of a model each year is not sustainable, even if you're Lamborghini or Ferrari. Porsche saw it earlier than most - and led the way in "luxury performance SUVs" with the Cayenne - now even Ferrari can't resist that market temptation, because they need the cash to afford to build LaFerraris. Margin from the Volkswagen Golf and its badge-engineered cousins pays for Bugatti. Lamborghini is leveraging Audi's Q8 to build the Urus.

I think all of this rage and hate against the Defender wouldn't exist if it was just *shaped* a little more retro than it is, and then in that case it might sell a few hundred more units per year to the people who knew what the old Defender was, and couldn't get one. Because the people who *could* get one in Europe and the UK weren't buying them in any kind of sustainable numbers.

 

[DieselRanger]

Excellent opportunity for Land Rover to demonstrate their new Software Over The Air update capability, that's if they trust it and it is operational. This could go the other way and demonstrate that LR is not ready with that capability which would highlight your point.

I've had three SOTA updates on my infotainment in my D5.

 

[mpinco]

Amazing people lose their keys, especially considering you can buy carabiner's by the dozen on the cheap and everyone has a belt loop.

Every automaker needs a volume model to sell at high margins to drive revenue, and they need that income to justify borrowing cash against new models. Had they never invested in the Evoque, they would never have been able to justify the value to Tata when Ford put them on the auction block, and it was rich Uncle Tata's initial investment that allowed JLR to pursue the production and quality control investments that are only now beginning to bear fruit. That's not an overnight process. Had they never done that, Land Rover would be a memory, because selling 500 to a thousand copies of a model each year is not sustainable, even if you're Lamborghini or Ferrari. Porsche saw it earlier than most - and led the way in "luxury performance SUVs" with the Cayenne - now even Ferrari can't resist that market temptation, because they need the cash to afford to build LaFerraris. Margin from the Volkswagen Golf and its badge-engineered cousins pays for Bugatti. Lamborghini is leveraging Audi's Q8 to build the Urus.

I think all of this rage and hate against the Defender wouldn't exist if it was just *shaped* a little more retro than it is, and then in that case it might sell a few hundred more units per year to the people who knew what the old Defender was, and couldn't get one. Because the people who *could* get one in Europe and the UK weren't buying them in any kind of sustainable numbers.

Bottom line, JLR has lost money for many years and that is the reality they need to face. It is why a new CEO, model deletions, redundancies and possible sale of JLR are moving forward. We can all wax eloquently about how LR is 'right' but in the end a business exist to make a profit. While Jaguar is an anchor, Land Rover wiffed on the D5 that even McGovern admits to. The Discovery is the core of their product line. The Evoque is today's TR7.

Apparently a Phoenix dealer took 500 Bronco orders, in one day. Compare to Land Rover Defender orders/sales that even Land Rover admits were "disappointing". I'm rooting for LR but they need to get their head out of the a** and listen more to the customer vs creating art.

 

[T-Willy]

Excellent opportunity for Land Rover to demonstrate their new Software Over The Air update capability, that's if they trust it and it is operational. This could go the other way and demonstrate that LR is not ready with that capability which would highlight your point.

It is, though my point is that this sort of technology, for my purposes, is unwanted in the first place. It seems like, if such an update were available, the dealer would have corrected the problem. I'll be interested to see how it plays out.

On that note, I still love this owner's enthusiasm, and Land Rover couldn't ask for a jollier ambassador to be youtubing about what are probably early production / QA bugs.

 

[JeepColorado]

At the risk of being positive on this thread I'd say this is a step in the right direction-

 

[umbertob]

It's really good news, especially since many of us with RRS or LR4 already own those Compomotive wheels.

 

[Explorerinil]

Just saw a new defender in fish creek Wisconsin, wish my phone wasnt dead. I was surprised how small it was compared to the pics online.

 

[T-Willy]

At the risk of being positive on this thread I'd say this is a step in the right direction-

That awkward pause after Erik proclaims, "we did it in the rear."

 

[JeepColorado]

Amazing people lose their keys, especially considering you can buy carabiner's by the dozen on the cheap and everyone has a belt loop.


Bottom line, JLR has lost money for many years and that is the reality they need to face. It is why a new CEO, model deletions, redundancies and possible sale of JLR are moving forward. We can all wax eloquently about how LR is 'right' but in the end a business exist to make a profit. While Jaguar is an anchor, Land Rover wiffed on the D5 that even McGovern admits to. The Discovery is the core of their product line. The Evoque is today's TR7.

Apparently a Phoenix dealer took 500 Bronco orders, in one day. Compare to Land Rover Defender orders/sales that even Land Rover admits were "disappointing". I'm rooting for LR but they need to get their head out of the a** and listen more to the customer vs creating art.

A quick look at Motor Trend- there were over 40 prominent articles on the front page- 17 of them were about the Bronco