New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[DieselRanger]

In case anyone needed proof that a metal front bumper is on the way ^^^

That's not really going to be a shade-tree mechanic / enthusiast DIY job. And it will probably violate the warranty. But...love the aftermarket's enthusiasm. Don't think anyone is doing this with the GX and that ************** hideous spindle grill....

 

[soflorovers]

That's not really going to be a shade-tree mechanic / enthusiast DIY job. And it will probably violate the warranty. But...love the aftermarket's enthusiasm. Don't think anyone is doing this with the GX and that ************** hideous spindle grill....

Completely depends on how "intrusive" the procedure is. I imagine your comments Re: Warranty are true with the P400 which will likely require relocation of the auxiliary coolers. However, there may be little to no modification required for the P300 since according to the comments on the initial IG post, it seems this car never had the coolers to begin with. I've never heard of LR voiding warranties for lift rods or bumpers, but there's always a first.....

 

[Blaise]

The travel trailer vendors spec dry tongue weight from which options add to it from there, either increasing or decreasing tongue weight. It would be prudent for tow vehicle candidates to spec without full payload and let the consumer close the gap between TV and trailer depending on personal needs. Blowing yourself out of the water from the get-go is pure insanity.

Based on your contributions to ExPo, you can can be CEO of JLR, technical writer, suspension designer, head of vehicle styling, etc.... what's next? Oh right, you're also an expert in towing despite not even being aware of how those numbers are generated, instead assuming that it was purely based on a factor of tongue weight.

LR has given the *correct* specifications for the vehicle. It's not their fault that you chose not to read it in full.

 

[DieselRanger]

Completely depends on how "intrusive" the procedure is. I imagine your comments Re: Warranty are true with the P400 which will likely require relocation of the auxiliary coolers. However, there may be little to no modification required for the P300 since according to the comments on the initial IG post, it seems this car never had the coolers to begin with. I've never heard of LR voiding warranties for lift rods or bumpers, but there's always a first.....

Definitely referring to re-plumbing coolers on the P400. Didn't see in the post where they said this was for the P300 only - the OP mentioned the coolers. I would imagine that LR would be cool and simply deny any warranty claims on the modified parts, i.e., the coolers and revised plumbing, but could see some dealers being jerks about it and denying any engine claim and forcing owners to appeal to JLR. Dealers don't make any money on warranty repairs and often lose money in terms of billable hours - they have to apply to corporate to get reimbursed and unless the A-team is on it in the shop, dealers often don't get reimbursed for the time it takes them to perform the repair, only the time the manual says it's supposed to take. I'm sure you're familiar with that process....

Volkswagen famously denied warranty claims for engine issues where owners DIY'd things like oil changes and didn't use VW spec motor oils - dealers were sometimes instructed to take samples for analysis in suspect cases and the policy had been blanket denial forcing owners to go to VAG and beg for dispensation. Now, VAG at the time was run by the Porsche Family, and VAG as the largest automobile manufacturer at the time had the pockets and the balls to do that - and that is absolutely an extreme example. Land Rover simply can't afford to be such pricks about it and my guess is there wouldn't be thousands of these kits installed annually, so it probably won't be a big deal assuming it's a good engineering job and a competent installer. I would hope that the shop that would do the work or provide the kit would back up their own engineering with a warranty, however - or better yet, work with some dealers to perform the mods directly the way some aftermarket tuners work with specific dealers to source certain mods on American muscle.

 

[JeepColorado]

Based on your contributions to ExPo, you can can be CEO of JLR, technical writer, suspension designer, head of vehicle styling, etc.... what's next? Oh right, you're also an expert in towing despite not even being aware of how those numbers are generated, instead assuming that it was purely based on a factor of tongue weight.

LR has given the *correct* specifications for the vehicle. It's not their fault that you chose not to read it in full.

I'm wondering how often people while overlanding and back-country adventuring are maxing out their towing capacity?

I've been doing this for a while and rarely see trailers--- I own every copy of Overland Journal since their first publication and subscribe to many forums and feeds involving the subject matter and would say maybe 10% of vehicles are towing something at most.

If towing is that important to you off-road I'd think having a front locker would really make a difference as evidenced by the video posted a few pages back which shows the G-Wagon with lockers pulling a Defender up a hill and the LR loosing traction barely up the hill trying to pull the G-Wagon. If pulling that much weight up and over obstacles is that important to you wouldn't having the most traction possible (lockers) be critical?

 

[Corgi_express]

People tow Jeeps behind their motor homes so they can go adventuring and leave their campers behind, and you are still completely incapable of fathoming why somebody would want an off road capable vehicle that can also tow things?

Your disingenuous arguments are wearing incredibly thin.

 

[JeepColorado]

People tow Jeeps behind their motor homes so they can go adventuring and leave their campers behind, and you are still completely incapable of fathoming why somebody would want an off road capable vehicle that can also tow things?

Your disingenuous arguments are wearing incredibly thin.

I'm responding to the back and forth about the Defender's max tow capacity using it as a tow vehicle and I'm putting forth the question of how often are people maxing out tow capacity anyway while overlanding,

In the example you are giving the Jeep/Defender is being towed, not the one doing the towing then say that I'm incapable of fathoming why someone would want an off-road capable vehicle that can also tow- the Jeep isn't towing in your example- it's being towed

My question is not disingenuous- your example is completely reversed.

 

[Todd780]

Only 7 more pages.

 

[Buliwyf]

People tow Jeeps behind their motor homes so they can go adventuring and leave their campers behind, and you are still completely incapable of fathoming why somebody would want an off road capable vehicle that can also tow things?

Your disingenuous arguments are wearing incredibly thin.

Are you insinuating that a motorhome is a good overlander, with a good tow rating?

I'm not going to tow a Jeep behind a landrover or a Bronco. If I'm going to tow a Jeep, I'll tow it with a fullsize, not a Defender.

The only trailers I've seen a midsize or less go overlanding are those tiny M1101 style trailers. RTT and some camp gear. Max 3000#.

 

[JeepColorado]

Are you insinuating that a motorhome is a good overlander, with a good tow rating?

I'm not going to tow a Jeep behind a landrover or a Bronco. If I'm going to tow a Jeep, I'll tow it with a fullsize, not a Defender.

The only trailers I've seen a midsize or less go overlanding are those tiny M1101 style trailers. RTT and some camp gear. Max 3000#.

Exactly- I really don't understand his analogy ...Is the Camper going overlanding? .....what do I know, I'm just the disingenuous guy who he's repeatedly told to shut up all while he's never bothered to refute anything I say with actual facts.

 

[Corgi_express]

You people are dense as can be.

- Tow camper to campground and leave it there
- Drive tow vehicle to interesting places


You might fantasize about months-long African safaris where you live out of your vehicle, but you're completely delusional if you think even a tiny percentage of any of these brands is being used for that.

A max tow rating for a vehicle that does multiple things is incredibly valuable when you aren't living in an idiotic internet fantasy world where the only travel that matters is the one you dream about while angrily bashing at your keyboards.


The tow rating is going to sell a lot of Defenders. You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout LALALALALALA all you want, but that's a fact.

 

[Corgi_express]

never bothered to refute anything I say with actual facts.

You mean like that time you pissed and moaned about the spare not being on the rear door until I pointed out that there was a spare mounted on the rear door?

I am not surprised that you have forgotten most of the ridiculous false BS you've spouted in this thread, since you've been vomiting up meaningless words without putting an iota of thought into them for close to two hundred pages now.

 

[JackW]

Completely depends on how "intrusive" the procedure is. I imagine your comments Re: Warranty are true with the P400 which will likely require relocation of the auxiliary coolers. However, there may be little to no modification required for the P300 since according to the comments on the initial IG post, it seems this car never had the coolers to begin with. I've never heard of LR voiding warranties for lift rods or bumpers, but there's always a first.....

This is the first reference I've seen that the P300 doesn't have the coolers - can anyone elaborate on this? I don't have Instagram so I can't review the post to see what they said. I've got a P300 on order thinking it will be a sweet spot in the Defender line up for other reasons but this might be a really good bonus. I will tow a travel trailer with my new Defender but I went to great lengths to choose a diminutive European style trailer that I can tow with my Tdi powered D90 so the new 110 will easily handle it as well. My 1995 Eriba Puck weighs around 1200 lbs fully loaded for travel.



But for true overland type travel I would love to have a Patriot camper - I've very carefully looked them over at the Overland Expo events and they are truly impressive and well thought out.

 

[mpinco]

.......

- Tow camper to campground and leave it there
- Drive tow vehicle to interesting places

........

A max tow rating for a vehicle that does multiple things is incredibly valuable ............

^This

 

[Carson G]

I haul crap all the time with my Landy’s everything from farm equipment to cars and trucks, campers, boats. I’ve looked at full size pickup and I’ve spent quite a bit of time behind the steering wheel of full size pickups and I downright hate the way they drive. But if I need that much capability I have access to three full size pickups 2 3/4 tons and a 1/2 ton. I however don’t need full size capability on a day to day basis and I’d rather not deal with the negatives of a full size either. Also some of us need a vehicle that’s more than a play toy I can justify $60-70k on a vehicle that can do a lot of things well a heck of a lot easier than I can a vehicle that’s $50-55k that only does a couple things well.

This is purely my opinion. I’m a big fan of Swiss Army Knives. That’s one thing both new and old Defender’s have in common they’re decent at a lot of things.