Todd780
OverCamper
We have a travel trailer, not a truck camper.
New to campers and surprised by the high prices. How come a camper is half the cost of a car?
- Thread starter MM4Overland
- Start date
tacollie
Glamper
We added a furnace, flush mount stove, window, fan, silver spur exterior, and jacks so we could take it off the truck. $13k doesn't include shipping, installation, or tax. I think the shell base price was $11,900 when we bought it.I am seeing it still at 13K basics
What options did you get in 4K?
Fleet Shell Model
This is the Shell Model view of the interior, Siding, Fabrics, Floor Plans, and Options on Camper Model for you to Build.fourwheelcampers.com
FWC was relatively cheap compared to some of the other options. She really wanted a Hallmark but it was almost $10k more. All the used hallmarks that weren't clapped out where more than our new FWC.
We have some friends that bought a Hawk flatbed model right before covid. We built the aluminum flatbed and storage boxes. He had close to $2k in materials before covid.
MM4Overland
Member
tacollie
Glamper
$2k was just the flatbed......
Materials are only a significant cost component in a DIY context.
The $20-30 minimum hourly labor cost needs to be doubled given the labor overheads.
Then all the other overheads involved, plus profits for the investors
spread out over very low throughput of units produced per month.
Would be idiotic to compete on price.
Given all the management headaches and ever present liability issues, only non-professional inexperienced business people ever get involved.
Labour of love.
Only way costs go down is shipping capacity from China goes surplus and gets cheaper again (Ha! ) and demand is enough to actually justify them getting i to the biz.
The $20-30 minimum hourly labor cost needs to be doubled given the labor overheads.
Then all the other overheads involved, plus profits for the investors
spread out over very low throughput of units produced per month.
Would be idiotic to compete on price.
Given all the management headaches and ever present liability issues, only non-professional inexperienced business people ever get involved.
Labour of love.
Only way costs go down is shipping capacity from China goes surplus and gets cheaper again (Ha! ) and demand is enough to actually justify them getting i to the biz.
craig333
Expedition Leader
Fortunately or unfortunately depending on whether you own one or wish to purchase an FWC/ATC, they don't depreciate much right off the shelf. Almost all they guys that go DIY find it cost more than they thought, take more time than they thought among other things. Most of us don't have the time or the talent to go DIY.
As for more manufacturers joining up? They have. There was one option when I got my FWC (for an aluminum frame pop up camper) and now we have at least a dozen? Even with all the new options it hasn't driven the price down.
As for more manufacturers joining up? They have. There was one option when I got my FWC (for an aluminum frame pop up camper) and now we have at least a dozen? Even with all the new options it hasn't driven the price down.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Cross posted for effect 
I've said it before, and Ill likely say it again... and again...
The RV industry is, in fairness, made up of absolute garbage. But it serves a purpose.
The VAST majority of RVs pend 90+% of their lives in the driveway.
But that other 10% is spent making memories. And that's worth a LOT of coin to most.
If you feel it isn't worth what they are charging, I challenge you to build something similar.
Your time isn't free, and neither is a builders', so proceed with caution.
I'm one of the very few on this forum that purpose built, from scratch, a custom 4-season camper that will last the test of time.
The proof is already there. Its been on the road since 2013, likely already has 80k+ road miles on it, and countless nights in every type of weather.
Interested in knowing how much it cost?
Keep reading... I'm happy to share.
All in, I have a bit less than $10k into the camper, as it sits.
Time and labor? Estimated 600+ hours including R&D. Even at a reasonable $50/hr that's a a solid $30k just in labor.
More realistic would be $80/hr+ And I already have the tools and the shop. Do you?
So a total of $40k in materials and labor, not including tools and shop needed.
How about a custom purpose build bed? Yep, built that too.
A touch more than $10k in just materials and shop supplies for that.
Labor? Not really sure, but likely 50 hours or so. So perhaps about $2500 in labor, at the very least.
Again, already have the tools and shop.
So a total of $12500 in materials and labor, not including tools and shop.
The truck? Paid $16k cash for it, with a touch more than 100k miles on it.
6.2, 6-speed, 4wd, was a fleet truck. Not terribly clean, but it has it where it counts.
Add another $4500 in bits to make it what we need. Chassis extension, bumper, winch, OBA, etc, etc...
Again, all done myself, in my shop, with my tools.
I dont know... maybe another 50 hours of labor for changes?
So figure a total of $23k for truck, upgrades, and labor.
Oops, almost forgot about a set (including matching spare) of wheels and high load tires. Add $3500
Truck total... 26,500
Totals all in??
Lets do the math...
$26500 for truck
$12500 for bed
$40000 for camper
That's how you wind up with a $79,000, just a call it an $80k setup, home brewed.
That is just materials and labor mind you. Businesses need profit to keep the lights on, and to grow/improve.
Would I do it again? Perhaps. But not likely.
Would I pay for a similar turn key setup if I had the cash, and valued my free time more? Absolutely.
But I'm aware of just how much effort, blood, and sweat goes into such a project.
My fear, is that most simply do not.
MM4Overland
Member
my 2c on DIY
To renovate a bathroom would cost you 40K in materials and labor
I am doing it myself and the cost is way lower than that.
What many don't realize is that the 40K or more you pay for a camper of a bathroom is money after taxes
If you add back the taxes on top of that you will (depending on your tax bracket) realize that it actually makes more sense to learn to DIY (assuming you are handy)
It might take a bit longer BUT from my experience, MOST of the people I know have MORE TIME THAN MONEY and no means to convert the time to money (nobody wants to pay their time spent to do things)
The "I don't have the time" paradigm is the lazy man paradigm OR the rich man.
For the later this is not a problem as they have the capability to turn their time in more money than they would spend building a camper.
For the former it is just an excuse to sit on the coach watch the TV and your debt growing.
The work you put into that will pay off later in other areas.
I started with home renos and woodworking and every single tool I bought for my hobbies is now paying off when doing other home renos, which in turn cascaded into other benefits if considering retirement, build a house on my own and a camper truck or camper van -still on the fence because of the apparently higher truck camper build.
If you do this near retirement then you already have more time than money and the money saving will pay off years later.
House or camper I would probably outsource a part of it but it will be mostly a DIY. My other option is to be able to convert additional hours I might get to spend doing the work I do for living and save for the camper.
As long as your gross pay per hour is lower than the money paid for turn key one divided by the time measured in hours that you would spend learning and doing it yourself you have no excuse not to do it.
If your normal pay is above that then go ahead and buy it.
To renovate a bathroom would cost you 40K in materials and labor
I am doing it myself and the cost is way lower than that.
What many don't realize is that the 40K or more you pay for a camper of a bathroom is money after taxes
If you add back the taxes on top of that you will (depending on your tax bracket) realize that it actually makes more sense to learn to DIY (assuming you are handy)
It might take a bit longer BUT from my experience, MOST of the people I know have MORE TIME THAN MONEY and no means to convert the time to money (nobody wants to pay their time spent to do things)
The "I don't have the time" paradigm is the lazy man paradigm OR the rich man.
For the later this is not a problem as they have the capability to turn their time in more money than they would spend building a camper.
For the former it is just an excuse to sit on the coach watch the TV and your debt growing.
The work you put into that will pay off later in other areas.
I started with home renos and woodworking and every single tool I bought for my hobbies is now paying off when doing other home renos, which in turn cascaded into other benefits if considering retirement, build a house on my own and a camper truck or camper van -still on the fence because of the apparently higher truck camper build.
If you do this near retirement then you already have more time than money and the money saving will pay off years later.
House or camper I would probably outsource a part of it but it will be mostly a DIY. My other option is to be able to convert additional hours I might get to spend doing the work I do for living and save for the camper.
As long as your gross pay per hour is lower than the money paid for turn key one divided by the time measured in hours that you would spend learning and doing it yourself you have no excuse not to do it.
If your normal pay is above that then go ahead and buy it.
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billiebob
Well-known member
Rather than looking at "overlanding" decks
Look at commercial, municipal, farmer decks like the ones every city has a few hundred of
Trailtech 8.5' x 8' Truck Deck - LED Lights - Trailer Inventory
<strong>Trailtech Steel Truck Decks - In Stock & Custom Order!</strong><br /> <br /> Make: Trailtech<br /> Model: 8634-8W<br /> Size: 8.5' L x 8' W<br /> Color: Black/White<br /> Frame: HSS Steel<br /> Headache Rack: 4" x 2" S
flamantrailers.com
On a budget, go to the big auctions where municipal trucks and equipment are sold
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billiebob
Well-known member
THIS absolutely..... if you want to "design" your own.... it'll be exponentially more expensive than a basic production line model.
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MM4Overland
Member
No way, I am fully aware that the more frills I put on it the more money the manufactured makes on these.
They usually get you there no matter what product you buy.
So worst case scenario I would buy a shell and a flatbed for a Tacoma when that time comes
I will probably build the rest myself
I would have liked to start now but this is definitely not a good time for this
MM4Overland
Member
I do not see myself traveling from Achorage to Ushoaia , to Europe and Australia using one of these
I need something compact light functional and fast. So far it seems that a Tacoma with a pop-up flatbed would do the trick
I do not plan extreme overlanding, if there are remote areas where the scenery is something you want to see I would hike there, it is healthier less risky and less expensive that to upgrade and maintain an uber track that could over the craziest rock agglomerations out there
I need something compact light functional and fast. So far it seems that a Tacoma with a pop-up flatbed would do the trick
I do not plan extreme overlanding, if there are remote areas where the scenery is something you want to see I would hike there, it is healthier less risky and less expensive that to upgrade and maintain an uber track that could over the craziest rock agglomerations out there
tacollie
Glamper
I call 40 hours a week part time?
After working 6-7 days and 70hrs+ a week for the last 9 years 40-45 and 5 days feels like I have all the time in the world. We decided to buy a FWC after it was pointed out to me how much I was working. I'm nowhere close to rich but I'm lucky enough to have my labor be worth something. We are also dual income without kids.
I'm going to build our flatbed and storage boxes this fall. It would be 14k or more to buy what I want. Even with how high aluminum is right now I'll have less than $2500 in it. I have a big water cooled Tig and a buddy with a fab shop. We'll find out if it is worth the time this fall?
Our friends with a flatbed Hawk had a Budget box van they bought for $11k. They spent $6k building it into camper. He is a plumber who does remodels so he has a ton of experience and left over materials. They used it for 3 years and over 60k miles. They got tired of the crappy handling and not being able to follow us to some more remote spots. They sold it for $39k and bought their Hawk. He could have built something else but he would rather ride his KTM.
Mickey Bitsko
Adventurer
MM40 , you're planning around the world trip in a Tacoma with a pop-up camper?
You may consider a larger truck. Highest payload for any Tacoma is 1600 lbs (not sure what configuration). After your pop-up install won't leave much payload for beer and potato chips ?
Will be a fun adventure though.
You may consider a larger truck. Highest payload for any Tacoma is 1600 lbs (not sure what configuration). After your pop-up install won't leave much payload for beer and potato chips ?
Will be a fun adventure though.