NEWB choosing a base vehicle: pickup vs 4runner

[GroversYota]

I've been lurking and learning, but I'm getting into planning specifics now and it's time to commit to a vehicle choice. I could use some input from those who have been there. We aren't new to vehicle dependant travel, but in the past most of our off road travels beyond bad forest service roads were done on foot.

We're trying to choose between two possible base vehciles, a 1990 toyota extra cab with 3.0/auto that has 28k on the clock which we already own, or a yet to be purchased first gen. 4runner with a 22re/manual. We're buying one either way since we don't want our travel truck to be used daily, and we both want a 4runner. Which ever we use, it would have a similar set up, ome suspension, rear locker, and larger tires. The gear list will include Maggiolina Extreme RTT, Engle/arb fridge, tuffy drawer for the lap top, camera etc, arb with winch, sliders, aux. fuel tank, and the usual camping/recovery gear most will carry. Maybe just a little more than some on recovery gear as we tend to travel alone.

These are the pros and cons that come to mind, please do point out anything I've missed! I'd love to hear what other people would choose for their self and why.

Extra cab pros
-It's in my driveway!
-At 28k it's a new toyota, even if it is nearing 2 decades old.
-Lots of space, we'd have room to spare.
-3.0 is not my first choice of engines, but it will haul the weight up hills better at hwy speeds.
-It has a canopy, which I would add lift out side windows to, so excellent gear access.
-I could store a bulk propane tank safely in the bed.
-I suspect the heavier vehicle and longer wheel base will make the RTT less noticeable.
-I could store a 33" tire inside, no need for a spendy and bulky rear bumper

Extra cab cons
-Long wheel base, could be a limiting factor on some trails.
-More complex engine that is more difficult to maintain and repair, I feel more comoftable under the hood with a 22re. That said, I don't expect it to need much at 28k miles.
-I'd like to be well geared for the weight, and I'd like to run 33's, but I fear running 5.71's from wide spread rumors of easy breakage.
-Poor fuel milage compared to a 22re when both are stock

4runner pros
-IMHO, one of the coolest toyotas made!
-short wheel base for tight trails
-removeable top for trips close to home!
-22re with great parts availability, more shade tree mechanic friendly.
-Better milage stock, but from what I've read the extra weight of expedition outfitting knocks it down substantially, I'd love feedback on this from you 1st gen guys.
-I could buy one heavily modified from a rock crawler for the price I paid for my stock truck. This is the only way I'll have the luxury of dual cases.

4runner cons
-I worry more about the effect of the RTT on the smaller 4runner's handeling and roll over rate on and off road. Having been ejected from a car safety is big for me.
-I worry that the 22re really won't have enough power in the mountains and on the hwy with the tent and added gear weight. We could really feel our wildernest on the wifes std cab.
-Even if it does pull well it's hard to imagine good milage under the strain, but I'd love to be told I'm wrong
-I'm not going to find one with 28k, so there will be more stuff to fix upfront and down the road. My health isn't great, so this is a concern for me.


Big thanks to those who made it this far! I'd love to hear some feedback.

 

[mtnbike28]

I say the truck.

You own it, know the history, and with only two people, it's plenty big. The big downer on the 4rnr is finding one. They are getting rare, you would have a lot of PM to do and tougher to find parts than for the truck. (for example, you can not get a steering box anymore, or at least I couldn't find one when I converted my FJ40 to PS)

That is my 2 cents

 

[Dave Bennett]

Welcome to ExPo!

Both those are good choices IMO.

I would go with the truck because of the versatility of the bed. I know, I've had both an 88 4Runner and a Tacoma and you will want the bed space.

The 1990 3.0 is known for head gasket issues and really isn't that much more peppy than the 22RE IMHO.

The 4Runner 22RE will leave you wanting more power, especially loaded down on the highway...
It will not go very fast but you will get there and back every time

If you put 33's on a 1st Gen 4Runner you must regear.

22RE is probably the best engine Toyota ever made IMO and I hope my 1GR-FE lives up to the Toyota family reputation.

Stay away from buying a "heavily modified" rock crawler unless you are really into rock crawling. If you didnt build it it is very complicated to service and maintain in the future because nothing will be in the system at Napa... IMO, most trucks like that are for sale because the owner has tired of beating the crap out of it and it is starting to nickel and dime him to death. You could end up buying someone else's problem.

Do like others here have done (see Scott Brady's new Disco project) and find one BONE STOCK with the options you desire and take it from there. Then you will know what you have and reliability will be less of a concern.

A Doublecab Tacoma is another REALLY GOOD choice!

 

[Willman]

Go with a Double Cab! For ExPo travel...the extra room is worth the $$$$$.

I love mine!

 

[GroversYota]

I'm with you on the history, the previous owner didn't even use it enough to neglect it! It was dealer serviced, and the owner was a middle aged lady who bought it becuase she was afraid to drive in the country(on road) in winter weather. It was only driven off road on their property.
I'm not too worried about finding parts or the 4runner (yet!), the last travel rig we built was a 60's vw camper, and my obssesive nature has caused me to track down original paint body parts for 40-50 year old cars
I'm also willing to travel to buy it, so finding the yotas seem easy by comparison.


What was your milage in the 4runner like with a full load tacodoc?

We will regear no matter which vehicle we go with, so no worries there. My only concern for gearing is with 5.71's on the automatic with 33's. I originally planned 5.29s and 31's after much digging, but 33's are calling me.

I know what you mean about 3.0 pep, I think it's slower off the line than a 22re by quite a bit. I called toyota, and my truck had the head gasket recall done, so I'm hoping that's that.

 

[Dave Bennett]

What was your milage in the 4runner like with a full load tacodoc?

I don't remember the exact number as it's been a few years but that engine was a mizer compared to what I'm driving now

 

[GroversYota]

Go with a Double Cab! For ExPo travel...the extra room is worth the $$$$$.

Having owned one, I agree that they're worth the $, and certainly more truck. That said, the payment kicked my *** even with 5k down. I was afraid to use it as I should because it cost me so much to own it, which turned out to be a good thing when I had to sell it.
Outfitting my 28k pickup with the luxury items above will cost quite a bit less than a stock double cab with comperable milage, which means I can travel more.

 

[Dumpolina]

I've been lurking and learning, but I'm getting into planning specifics now and it's time to commit to a vehicle choice. I could use some input from those who have been there. We aren't new to vehicle dependant travel, but in the past most of our off road travels beyond bad forest service roads were done on foot....

.....We're trying to choose between two possible base vehciles, a 1990 toyota extra cab with 3.0/auto that has 28k on the clock which we already own, or a yet to be purchased first gen. 4runner with a 22re/manual.
....
-I worry more about the effect of the RTT on the smaller 4runner's handeling and roll over rate on and off road. Having been ejected from a car safety is big for me.

Just a suggestion- if you are new to this, use your pickup as is for a while and build what you need, rather than what everyone else seems to indicate is mandatory for a rig- bumpers, lockers, winches, etc are all nice but really most folks into EXPO type travel may not need it. My Dad drove a 1972 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban throughout Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras then up to the Yukon- all solo, and never had a lift, ARBs, a fridge or GPS... I have seen people with fully decked out trucks leave the sport because keeping up with the Jones is such a financial sacrifice- the point, I think, should be getting out there (yes, safely) more than just having all the goodies just to have the goodies. Yes, the build up can be fun but it should not keep you from seeing the world just cause you don't have an ARB winch bumper and 33" tires. Keep it simple to start!

I have had and built both of the vehicles you mention.
Pickup- great truck, esp w/ the low miles- get some tire chains and a hi-lift and have some fun! Run 31" tires with no lift- you may be surprized where a good, careful operator can take a bone stock Toy PU.
4-Runner- you mention safety and RTT- the 1st gen has a fiberglass top- I had a good friend crushed in one in a roll over, regardless of the stock roll bar. Setting up a RTT fitment may be tough as well (though not impossible), and will add to body roll.
If safety is a concern, fit an internal frame connected cage in EITHER vehicle- Smitty bilt I think even used to have an almost bolt on version for the pickup, and All-Pro I believe still sells a weld in kit.
Good luck, and most of all have fun!

 

[GroversYota]

I could have worded it more clearly, but we're not total newbs, just new to the harder trails, and modification of newer vehicles. We used to drive as far as we could, then hike. Big back packs are out now, so we're building the vehicle to drive in further.

I failed to mention it, but we already did what you suggest in regard to using it stock. We bought it last summer with the intentions of keeping it relatively stock and using it for camping. We traveled in WA, OR, and Nor Cal. Even with the stock size tires and low hanging running boards it went many places with ease. After my confidence grew in the stocker(and my own ability) we started pointing the truck at water crossings, and down harder trails. We both knew we needed a truck capable of more. I've been known to thrash a ford escort down 4wd roads, so we definetly know how do get it done with less.

While I'm sure the gear list doesn't show it, we are building on a budget. Nothing on it has a thing to do with keeping up, I make just over 20k a year, so I can't afford to play that game. Some of the more expensive stuff like the RTT and fridge is a need for us. So far we've got:

$8,000 24k mile(when I bought it)toyota
$800 used ARB bumper with warn 8k and ipf lights
$60 winch remote
$300 Used tuffy box, well worth it to keep my mac book and camera mine.
$25 31" stock bfg's on tacoma alloys. I bought these from a guy who took his new 04 tacoma straight to less schwab for bling and left these in his garage until last summer when he listed them for sale for $400. I gave him $300 and sold my toyos on steel wheels for $275. $25 for alloys and bfgs with the nubbies still on em! If I do run 33's I will no doubt buy them used and already mounted and recover most of the cost from selling the 31's.

At $9,200 we've spent less on this than we did the old vw camper. All of this stuff could aslo be used on the 4runner as long as it's IFS.

The steering dampner gave up completely when we were wheeling last, and the shocks don't seem to be far behind. I'm sure we'll do them in completely this summer with any luck! I would upgrade shocks even at stock height, So the only real added expense of the lift is the rear springs and the ball joint spacers.

The fridge is more of a need than a want for us do to dietary requirements that I have from Crohn's disease. With my wife already having had a spinal fusion and me likely needing trigger point injections on my back for the rest of my life to control pain, the maggiolina isn't something I'm willing to do without either. Camping is no fun when your back hurts all the time, and you can't put a price on being able to spend the summer out in the woods. The regear is expensive but mandatory IMO with the 3.0/auto combo even with 31's.

As I see it the only thing on my list I could comfortably do without is the rear locker, but it's worth the $ to me to have it. Instalation cost will be minimal as they will already be in the diffs for the regear, and I can do the rest. Less time spent on recovery means less aches in my back, and I've also got a mean lazy streak

We looked into cages as well, not only for roll over, but because of the poor side impact rating of either truck. At 6' 2" ease of entry and leg room has been an issue on all of them I've seen, so I've got digging to do there.
Part of my decision to buy sliders was also in consideration of the poor side impact ratings.

Your roll over story is a good scare for me, the crushing with a roll bar is certainly an eye opener.

Just a suggestion- if you are new to this, use your pickup as is for a while and build what you need, rather than what everyone else seems to indicate is mandatory for a rig- bumpers, lockers, winches, etc are all nice but really most folks into EXPO type travel may not need it. My Dad drove a 1972 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban throughout Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras then up to the Yukon- all solo, and never had a lift, ARBs, a fridge or GPS... I have seen people with fully decked out trucks leave the sport because keeping up with the Jones is such a financial sacrifice- the point, I think, should be getting out there (yes, safely) more than just having all the goodies just to have the goodies. Yes, the build up can be fun but it should not keep you from seeing the world just cause you don't have an ARB winch bumper and 33" tires. Keep it simple to start!

 

[Dumpolina]

Sounds like you have a pretty solid plan- In context, I understand about the fidge, etc- gotta have what you need...
Again, having run both vehicles- the pickup will be more versatile platform, the 4Runner has more limitations due to the roof and interior confirgurations, especially if there are two of you. Bummer its an auto- you could gain a lot just swapping that to a 5SPD! Hope its an extended cab- I am only 6'-0" and have a hard time with a regular cab!

As to cages- if leg room is an issue, at least look at a loop behind the seat in either vehicle. The severity of the accident in my friends 4Runner was primarily due to A-pillar failure which cascaded to the factory bar. A good loop tied into the factory bar would have made a huge difference, and probably would have saved her.
If you are on a budget, maybe look at for an old Smittybuilt winch bumper vs an ARB- they really were not bad and they seem to come up cheap occasionally. I think they offer a better Hilift point than an ARB...but thats just me
Either way, best of luck and I'd look forward to a "Starving Explorer's On-The-Cheap" build-up thread if you do it; maybe some folks here might even donate some old unused gear to your build! Sorry, I have nada myself anymore, I'm starting all over myself!

 

[GroversYota]

Either way, best of luck and I'd look forward to a "Starving Explorer's On-The-Cheap" build-up thread if you do it; maybe some folks here might even donate some old unused gear to your build! Sorry, I have nada myself anymore, I'm starting all over myself!

The detail of my response wasn't intended to evoke sympathy, it was meant to dispel the notion that I was belly flopping blindly into the deep end. But if anyone want's to send me a $600 fridge for my $8k toy, because I've blown my check on an $800 bumper and $300 box PM me for mailing info I'm far from starving, a little too far.

I do have my gear pretty well figured out, I've put much thought into it as it's a large investment. The only real debate is the base. Gear was only mentioned becuase of the large difference in size and power between the two choices, and what I'm bringing is what I'm bringing. The ARB is bought, the suspension is next, which is why it's time to decide. If I'm going to build a 4runner I want to keep my truck closer to stock.

It is a bummer on the auto, I originally wanted a 22re/manual but I bought this one because of the low miles.

Stay away from buying a "heavily modified" rock crawler unless you are really into rock crawling. If you didnt build it it is very complicated to service and maintain in the future because nothing will be in the system at Napa... IMO, most trucks like that are for sale because the owner has tired of beating the crap out of it and it is starting to nickel and dime him to death. You could end up buying someone else's problem.
!

I managed to miss this whole paragraph the first time around tacodoc. I hadn't really consdiered the additional maintanence headache that would come with one already built, and the burden of custom parts chasing while on the road. I had planned to build down a bit, but it seems like I'd be better off to avoid it all together.


Sounds like most folks think the pickup is it. I'm kind of hung up on the larger size limiting me on trails, but I might be blowing that out of proportion.

 

[Dave Bennett]

Sounds like most folks think the pickup is it. I'm kind of hung up on the larger size limiting me on trails, but I might be blowing that out of proportion.

I've never been unable to go anywhere within reason, and our Tacoma is large-ish according to some...

 

[Clutch]

I've never been unable to go anywhere within reason, and our Tacoma is large-ish according to some...

It is really noticable if you park the previous generation next to the latest...as for not being able to go some places...I don't know...aren't they only 4 inches wider? There times when I wished my '99 was just a tad bigger...

 

[4Rescue]

Those are both GREAT trucks. Being of the older vintage, they have the stronger frames, and in my slightly biased opinion, the 1st gen 4Runner is one of the coolest truck Toyota ever made. And, with the 22RE and 5spd, it is about as reliable as a 4x4 comes. If I read corectly, you're going to buy the Runner either way, you just want some opinions on which one to use for the Exo rig?

SO, Assuming I've got that right:

I'd honestly say go for the Pick-up as your main expo rig. While I think the Runner has better overal dimensions for a trail rig, the trucks bed adds alot of versatility. Not to mention that you can add a raised canopy and have a great sleeping area with ALOT more head room. Unfortunately it has the worst of all powertrains offered in those trucks with the 3.0/Auto, but poor by Toyota standards is still tough compared to most 4x4's

The Runner however could have some advantages, if you want to get really wild, the Runner is basicly a short box standard cab PU with a factory pass through, and as I've been dreaming of lately, would make a great base for an Earthroamer XPV (or whatever the name of that new Rubi based rig is) esque' camper shell/conversion. Aditionaly, as I said, the wheel base and overall dimensions make it a better trail truck IMO. Not to mention (and I know this is purely sudjective) that it's one of the best looking/coolest trucks Toyota ever made world wide. Still, I think the Bed of the PU just is too much of an advantage to overlook.

Plus, if you're getting both, just slap on some gears and some skinny 33's and a locker and the Runner's pretty much good to go by itself or as a support rig.

Basicly, you have to choose between two great trucks... I don't feel sorry for you at all

 

[GroversYota]

Many of the NW trails are tight and overgrown, and some are narrow winding trails with quite a drop to one side. The width hurts a little, but the wheel base in the tight turns is a drag. I find it difficult to turn around, but it's something I need to work on anyway.

If I read corectly, you're going to buy the Runner either way, you just want some opinions on which one to use for the Exo rig?

That is correct! After we dump all that money in upgrades we want to use the expo truck mostly for trips and some local camping. So if we use the extra cab we'll buy a 4runner for a driver. The idea is to have something already stocked and ready to camp with no need to lift and load boxes of gear etc. Throw in some fresh food and clothes and you're ready for a trip with 20 minutes of prep.

Aditionaly, as I said, the wheel base and overall dimensions make it a better trail truck IMO. Not to mention (and I know this is purely sudjective) that it's one of the best looking/coolest trucks Toyota ever made world wide. Still, I think the Bed of the PU just is too much of an advantage to overlook.

Plus, if you're getting both, just slap on some gears and some skinny 33's and a locker and the Runner's pretty much good to go by itself or as a support rig.

Basicly, you have to choose between two great trucks... I don't feel sorry for you at all

I agree whole heartedly! The 4runner is hands down the coolest truck toyota made IMO. Honestly I'm sure that's a part of my drive to make it the expo rig, they're just plain fun trucks. Even a runner junky says truck, so the truck it will be. But it does doom the 4runner to a life of open diffs and 31's!

I was pretty down on the drivetrain for long term long distance hauls becuase of the relatively bad rep that they have, but lurking in the yotatech forums I found that folks had been running them for 150k plus with only basic maintenance after the head gasket recall was done. I feel like if I stay on top of things it will last me many years. And when the engine does go I can swap a 3.4 in!


So the older trucks have stronger frames? I had no idea. I had read that later tacomas had stronger frames than early tacomas, so I figured that the pickups were equal to or worse than the early tacomas.