News Flash! Americans don't want expensive and unreliable cars😳

[Todd780]

It's great to see so many folks who have been well served by their Jeeps! But, individual experiences with a particular vehicle aren't relevant to other buyers really - they are only relevant to the buyer who had the good experience, and maybe a trusted friend or two. I'm not surprised Stellantis is struggling - they don't represent good value compared to the competition. Let's take a look at the 4x4 market specifically, because it doesn't matter if everyone here has had great experiences with their jeeps - the aggregate tells the story, and folks see that story and go buy a Toyota instead. And the aggregate is controlled for units sold, so the idea that "of course there's Jeeps with problems, they sell so many" doesn't really hold up.

I'm not being mean to Jeep - I LOVE Jeeps. I've owned two and put about 400,000km on them. They were definitely not without problems but I loved them anyway, and mine always got me home. But I would not recommend them for reliability reasons just because I always got home - I'd recommend them for a whole host of other reasons, but reliability is not one of them. Bad bearings, cheap sensors, etc. are all pretty common problems - all fixable with better-than-OEM upgrades, but that begs the question why not put these better products in to begin with?

The answer is money - folks can argue that "If Stellantis used a higher spec bearings/sensors/etc. in every JL, they'd have to increase the price", but what I've seen is that the price has increased anyway - they cost as much as a Toyota - but without the commensurate increase in quality, and that's going to put people off. A base 4-runner starts at $57k CDN. A 4-door base Jeep is $52k after over $2k in baked-in discounts.

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That extra $5k puts the buyer a lot further ahead in aggregate reliability:

Consumer Reports
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JD Power

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If I'm shopping for a new 4x4, the above tells me that buying a jeep is a bad decision, and buying a Toyota is a good decision.

All that being said, I actually AM in the market for a new 4x4, and I won't be buying a Toyota - because, to a large degree, buying a vehicle like this isn't a good or bad decision, it's an emotional one. You gotta get one that gives you smiles for miles - and I'm sure many here would agree - those smiles can make us turn a bit of a blind eye to things like aggregate reliability ratings. But, we are an enthusiasts community, so we're apt to do that - the average consumer not so much.

If Stellantis were selling their vehicles for a lot less than Toyota, they'd have way higher sales. Hard to say what that would mean for their fortunes as a company as I don't have line-of-sight on the margins, but I don't believe they are priced at a "cost plus X%" - strikes me they are sold at what Stellantis thinks the market will bear, and they have really misread the market.

Big difference is Toyota doesn't deal. The Jeep shown is pricey yes.

But, I just picked up a new '24 Rubicon 2 door that stickered at 73K for about the same as what that base model sport you referenced is priced at.



I bought the black one. And was still able to negotiate off the advertised price... Try getting 20K off a Toyota.

 

[PirateMcGee]

57k is still nuts

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

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Big difference is Toyota doesn't deal. The Jeep shown is pricey yes.

But, I just picked up a new '24 Rubicon 2 door that stickered at 73K for about the same as what that base model sport you referenced is priced at.

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I bought the black one. And was still able to negotiate off the advertised price... Try getting 20K off a Toyota.

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Congrats on the great deal!

Toyota doesn't deal often and not to the degree that Jeep does. Occasionally they want to move last year's models so there can be deals had, but, we don't often see it in the 4x4 space with Toyota because there's usually not a lot of 2024 models of, say, the 4-Runner kicking around when the 2025 models hit the dealerships. If they can sell every single one they make without moving off the price, then why reduce it?

Jeep, as this thread demonstrates, is in the opposite position - lots of old stock sitting around unsold. It makes sense they'll deal. Some very good deals on new Wranglers out on the West Coast, but so many are tagged as "manual transmissions" when they are in fact automatics for some reason. But they can be had for the mid-$50s for a 4 door sport.

For folks looking at these threads and seeing a two door JK for $57k remember that's CAD (Assuming it is, anyway Todd!). This would be just under $40k USD. I think we paid about $46k CDN for our 4-door Rubicon back in 2013 - and like you said Todd, that was after a lot of dealing, so we got it way under the sticker price.

These negotiated deals are a lot closer to the actual value of the vehicle in my opinion.

 

[Todd780]

57k is still nuts

For folks looking at these threads and seeing a two door JK for $57k remember that's CAD (Assuming it is, anyway Todd!). This would be just under $40k USD. I think we paid about $46k CDN for our 4-door Rubicon back in 2013 - and like you said Todd, that was after a lot of dealing, so we got it way under the sticker price.

These negotiated deals are a lot closer to the actual value of the vehicle in my opinion.

Yes, you are correct. That's CAD pesos. Seemed like a good deal for a Rubicon with the convenience pkg, Tech group, safety group & hard top.

Good deal being subjective as 54K still seems like a lot of money for a 2 door Jeep... But, it's the best deal I could find.

Couple comparatives:

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Yes, you are correct. That's CAD pesos. Seemed like a good deal for a Rubicon with the convenience pkg, Tech group, safety group & hard top.

Good deal being subjective as 54K still seems like a lot of money for a 2 door Jeep... But, it's the best deal I could find.

Couple comparatives:

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Even more evidence that you got an incredibly good deal!

I think that's the truth of it - the raw price of the vehicle is irrelevant but the price relative to other vehicles is very much an important factor; they aren't charging the value of the construction +10%, they are charging what the market will bear (and all companies from trucks to bread do this).

I'm reminded of spending some time in Costa Rica many years ago and finding out those trick little Suzuki Jimny/Geo Metro-style of compact SUVs were, brand new, $6k. The exact same vehicle in Canada was going for $24k at the time.