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Grassland

Well-known member
If you stick with 32s the six banger NA Ford becomes viable again. Specifically 245/75R17 or 235/80R17 both in load E
When my truck was in fleet I had 1500# in/on and an 87 octane SCT canned tune and was getting 16l/100km or nearly 15 us mpg in my dump of a city, on LT235/80R17. Much of that towing a 2000# trailer. Stop and go and mostly stop is how you get around this hell hole. Mind you our highways are still 60-65 mph so I don't know what the fuel economy would have been at 80 mph, but it performed much snappier than on the 34x10.5KO2s.
 

XJLI

Adventurer
You buy a **GM** 3/4 ton because:

Wheel bearings are stronger
Brakes are larger
Stock E load range tires and shock/spring tuning for same
HIGHER PAYLOAD RATING -- better control carrying your overlanding gear
Stronger transmission, transfer case, u-joints, shafts, etc
Full-floating rear axle is better than semi-float, especially if you've ever had one break on the trail
14 bolt G80 locker is bulletproof, the 1/2 ton G80 locker is called "gov bomb" for a reason
ENGINES DO NOT HAVE PROBLEMATIC DoD/AFM - -the GM Gen IV 6.0L is bulletproof, and powerful
Better axle gearing, typically 3.73 or 4.10 versus 3.23 or 3.42... helps with intended taller tires

Fuel mileage is similar if you're laden. By the time you run 33"-35" tires, lift to clear them, regear for them, and add the stuff you want to carry... the delta between a 1/2 ton 5.3L pickup and a 3/4 ton 6.0L pickup might disappear completely. In fact, in my experience the larger 6.0L can get better fuel economy at the ~7,000-9,000 total weight range. Ride at that point will also be better, as the 1/2 ton will be at the bumpstops and generally not well controlled.

Just my opinion, having owned about a dozen of these things

I have a 2005 Silverado 1500 ECSB, with just about 170k miles on. It would be at least 175k by now, but I'm working from home like everybody else lately. I'm the third owner and got the truck at 110k, second was my father in law who got it at 88k (does like 5-8k miles a year), first was an older gent who traded it in on a new truck in 2013.

- One wheel bearing failed at 105k. The other was fine, but the one that failed was NOT OEM, and that side CV axle isn't either, so we suspect a minor accident got them changed prematurely. So chalk that one up to chance.
- The brakes are FINE
- You can buy whatever tires you want, I have E load BFG ATs, and they have 65k miles on them and will probably make it to 90k at least. Rotated every other oil change (~11k miles)
- My 4L60 is perfect (I put a Corvette 1-2 shift servo in since it was super cheap and does make a big difference), my Autotrac transfer case doesnt have the pump rub issues like all the HD cases have, and have never had to change a single u-joint, CV, etc. The newer 1/2 ton trucks have the 6 speed which is way better too.
- My stock 10 bolt and G80 both function well. The locker is a little weird to engage off road sometimes but I can modulate it. I run 285/70-17s, only reason I didnt go bigger is because my truck has 3.42 gears.
- I'll give you that. AFM is an issue, but easily avoided by simply avoiding earlier trucks; and most trucks have either never had/will have it, or were fixed already. The early problematic GMT900s are old now.
- Already addressed gearing, but you can look and find taller 1/2 ton geared trucks anyway.

My truck is and has been used to tow smallish boats and trailers (1500-5500lbs), loaded up with yard waste, camping gear, furniture to move myself and family multiple times, off road on the beach and offroad in places it really didn't belong, to commute and of course and I've given it a hard right foot plenty of times on road and off, keeping in mind where the weak points of the truck are. If you treat an old 1/2 ton like an F350, it's going to ******** out on you. If you want a WORK truck, you need a 3/4 ton. If you want a lifestyle pickup, there is no need. My buddy's 2004 DCSB Silverado 2500 6.0 struggles to get 14 on the highway with 285/75-17s (it maybe got 15 with smaller tires), it gets 7-8 around town, and even less towing a trailer. A new 2500 wont get much better. I get 14 on my commute, 19 on long highway trips.

I had to do my front end (minus the hubs, theyre still ok with 65k on em) at 165k, but so did my buddy with his 2500 at the same exact mileage. He also had to get a new transfer case because of pump rub, and his front end parts are more expensive. His truck also has a lower payload and tow capacity than a modern 1/2 ton truck.

The point is, if you want a pick up to drive around with family and friends, to the beach, to the mountains, etc; a 1/2 ton is all you need. Going bigger because "things wear out less and are bigger" is just swinging dicks. New trucks are amazingly capable. You dont need to be able to tow 16,500lbs and have a 2800lb payload "just in case." 15 years ago a 1/2 ton that got worked everyday was beat to ******** by 100k miles. Not the case anymore. And if you take care of it, it'll outlast you. Plenty of beat GMT800 Suburbans rolling around with 300k+ on original everything except the transmission. That should say enough.
 
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85_Ranger4x4

Well-known member
The point is, if you want a pick up to drive around with family and friends, to the beach, to the mountains, etc; a 1/2 ton is all you need. Going bigger because "things wear out less and are bigger" is just swinging dicks. New trucks are amazingly capable. You dont need to be able to tow 16,500lbs and have a 2800lb payload "just in case." 15 years ago a 1/2 ton that got worked everyday was beat to **** by 100k miles. Not the case anymore. And if you take care of it, it'll outlast you. Plenty of beat GMT800 Suburbans rolling around with 300k+ on original everything except the transmission. That should say enough.

* and rocker panels... :p

Anyway there is no such thing as a free lunch. Bigger parts cost more, a wheel bearing assembly is almost double the cost for a 2500 Ram as it is for my '150. When it is $200+/- a side on Rockauto... ouchie. Timkin is $87 for a 1500 vs $187 for a 2500, the parts store in BFE would be half again more.

You still have balljoints to go bad which also cost more plus a trackbar and all that good stuff that causes death wobble.

General rule of thumb is that a Super Duty needs everything in the front around here (farm area) rebuilt in the front around 100k, that is why I suspect many 3/4-1 ton trucks go up for sale at around 90k.

They are also taller out of the box which hurts visibility and due to the heavier duty axles they will not turn as tight so you give up maneuverability too. Plus... being heavier are much harder to recover. My F-150 is like dragging a mammoth out of a tar pit when I stick it compared to my Ranger.

Truck shopping is all about compromise, there is no perfect answer.
 

tennesseewj

Observer
I have a 2005 Silverado 1500 ECSB, with just about 170k miles on. It would be at least 175k by now, but I'm working from home like everybody else lately. I'm the third owner and got the truck at 110k, second was my father in law who got it at 88k (does like 5-8k miles a year), first was an older gent who traded it in on a new truck in 2013.

- One wheel bearing failed at 105k. The other was fine, but the one that failed was NOT OEM, and that side CV axle isn't either, so we suspect a minor accident got them changed prematurely. So chalk that one up to chance.
- The brakes are FINE
- You can buy whatever tires you want, I have E load BFG ATs, and they have 65k miles on them and will probably make it to 90k at least. Rotated every other oil change (~11k miles)
- My 4L60 is perfect (I put a Corvette 1-2 shift servo in since it was super cheap and does make a big difference), my Autotrac transfer case doesnt have the pump rub issues like all the HD cases have, and have never had to change a single u-joint, CV, etc. The newer 1/2 ton trucks have the 6 speed which is way better too.
- My stock 10 bolt and G80 both function well. The locker is a little weird to engage off road sometimes but I can modulate it. I run 285/70-17s, only reason I didnt go bigger is because my truck has 3.42 gears.
- I'll give you that. AFM is an issue, but easily avoided by simply avoiding earlier trucks; and most trucks have either never had/will have it, or were fixed already. The early problematic GMT900s are old now.
- Already addressed gearing, but you can look and find taller 1/2 ton geared trucks anyway.

My truck is and has been used to tow smallish boats and trailers (1500-5500lbs), loaded up with yard waste, camping gear, furniture to move myself and family multiple times, off road on the beach and offroad in places it really didn't belong, to commute and of course and I've given it a hard right foot plenty of times on road and off, keeping in mind where the weak points of the truck are. If you treat an old 1/2 ton like an F350, it's going to **** out on you. If you want a WORK truck, you need a 3/4 ton. If you want a lifestyle pickup, there is no need. My buddy's 2004 DCSB Silverado 2500 6.0 struggles to get 14 on the highway with 285/75-17s (it maybe got 15 with smaller tires), it gets 7-8 around town, and even less towing a trailer. A new 2500 wont get much better. I get 14 on my commute, 19 on long highway trips.

I had to do my front end (minus the hubs, theyre still ok with 65k on em) at 165k, but so did my buddy with his 2500 at the same exact mileage. He also had to get a new transfer case because of pump rub, and his front end parts are more expensive. His truck also has a lower payload and tow capacity than a modern 1/2 ton truck.

The point is, if you want a pick up to drive around with family and friends, to the beach, to the mountains, etc; a 1/2 ton is all you need. Going bigger because "things wear out less and are bigger" is just swinging dicks. New trucks are amazingly capable. You dont need to be able to tow 16,500lbs and have a 2800lb payload "just in case." 15 years ago a 1/2 ton that got worked everyday was beat to **** by 100k miles. Not the case anymore. And if you take care of it, it'll outlast you. Plenty of beat GMT800 Suburbans rolling around with 300k+ on original everything except the transmission. That should say enough.
My experience with my 03 Silverado ECSB was very similar. Great, reliable truck and I only ditched it because I needed room for a rear-facing infant carrier. I really wish I'd have just kept it. ***Edit: I should add that I did experience the dreaded Castech head failure on that truck at 160k miles, but it was easy enough to repair and I caught it before the coolant did any major damage***

People joke about the square wheel wells but they cleared 285/75/16s with zero drama. It takes a witch doctor to fit those on my 2006 Tundra.

They won't hit the OP's 20 mpg highway, though. I think only a newer truck will get there.

I love 3/4 tons as much as the next guy, but it's way overkill for the OP's needs list.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
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phsycle

Adventurer
That's really a perfect spec. 2011-2014 got the upgraded frame, brakes, bearings. That one has integrated trailer brakes, full trip computer, leather wrapped steering wheel with cruise and steering wheel controls... but rubber floor and (if you like that) manual shift on floor x4 and 6 passenger seating. Even the factory tow mirrors and 2.5" receiver.

Really nice spec, under 100K miles, white is nice, black seats/floor is nice. I think that would make a great truck

The VIN does not have “K2”. Do some not have that code?

I do like just about everything about that truck.
 

tennesseewj

Observer
Is the due to the AFM in the newer trucks? (I thought this gen also had AFM).
The later versions did, but I think the biggest difference in efficiency from newer trucks comes from a combination of higher gearing (numerically lower), more gears, and aerodynamics (particularly the low air dams).

Lots of older rigs were 3.73 or 4.10 and now 3.42 seems more common as manufacturers have been required to meet fuel standards.

I guess in fairness, if you keep a GMT800 completely stock and limit your highway speeds, you may near 20 mpg in flat areas of the country. But let's be real, who on this forum won't level that front end and throw 33's on?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

XJLI

Adventurer
Is the due to the AFM in the newer trucks? (I thought this gen also had AFM).

The GMT800s can get 20-22 highway, they need to be completely unloaded, on stock P rated highway tires inflated to factory specs, with all the factory air dams in place. It's easiest to do in a Tahoe in my experience. Probably has to do with aero and weight. Later GMT800s were equipped with extra lower air dams, I threw mine away the first week I had the truck.

The AFM probably nets ~2 MPG across the board. The final gear (4, 6, or 8) in all of the GM transmissions is almost identical.
 
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Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
AFM started with the GMT-900 series (2007 for the Suburban/Tahoe and I think 2008 for the pickups.)

At least initially AFM was only in the 1500 series with the 5.3. I don't know if the 6.0 and 8.1 ever got AFM.

GMT 800s (1999 - 2007 for pickups and 2000 - 2006 for Tahoe/Suburban) did not have AFM.

Chrysler has a similar feature but I think they call it MDS (Multiple Displacement System) in the 5.7 V8.
 

Todd780

OverCamper
AFM started with the GMT-900 series (2007 for the Suburban/Tahoe and I think 2008 for the pickups.)

GMT 800s (1999 - 2007 for pickups and 2000 - 2006 for Tahoe/Suburban) did not have AFM.
I had an ‘08 Sierra 1500 and an ‘09 suburban 1500. So both would have had AFM. I never had issues with AFM on either. I don’t really think it helped much with fuel mileage either though....
 

tennesseewj

Observer
I've witnessed the AFM issues first hand...Dad had an 07 with AFM that started drinking oil like it was going out of style. Pretty frustrating, but at that point it was 10 years old with 100k+ miles so a few isolated big maintenance items aren't completely unexpected. Hopefully most of the problematic AFM engines have been weeded out of the gene pool by now...

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 9101

Guest
Lots of older rigs were 3.73 or 4.10 and now 3.42 seems more common as manufacturers have been required to meet fuel standards.


Trucks also come with more transmission gears, so you don't need lower gears in the rear end. Look at the 10 speed that Ford and GM use, it eliminates the need for deep gears in the diff.

Highway" gears are actually better for a truck, they have a larger pinion gear. Off set the higher gear ratio with a lower 1st gear and you have a stro ger set up with good low end power and durability.

Some motors, the EcoBoost in particular, have enough low end torque to make gearing unimportant important to most people. Mine has a six speed and 3.15 gears and it has no problems towing.
 

Todd780

OverCamper
I've witnessed the AFM issues first hand...Dad had an 07 with AFM that started drinking oil like it was going out of style. Pretty frustrating, but at that point it was 10 years old with 100k+ miles so a few isolated big maintenance items aren't completely unexpected. Hopefully most of the problematic AFM engines have been weeded out of the gene pool by now...

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Could be why I never saw an issue? Bought the ‘08 Sierra new and sold it 2 years later with maybe 20,000 miles. Bought the ‘09 suburban in ‘11 or ‘12 but sold it around 100,000 miles.
 

PJorgen

Desert Dweller
All GMT900 (2007-2014) 2500s are HDs. Look for "K2" in the VIN. Anything with 8 lugs is what you want.

Keeping to LT285/70R17E (32.8") with 3.73s would return around 16 mpg freeway 70-75 mph. If you slowed down to 60-65 you might get 17-18 mpg. These are realistic numbers.

I‘ve got a 2012 GMC 2500HD, 6.0L, 3.73 and 33” tires and I’ve never seen 17mpg. Empty at 65-70mph I might get 14-15 on a good day.

Most of the time I have a FWC Hawk in the bed and I consistently see 11 mpg.
 

phsycle

Adventurer
I‘ve got a 2012 GMC 2500HD, 6.0L, 3.73 and 33” tires and I’ve never seen 17mpg. Empty at 65-70mph I might get 14-15 on a good day.

Most of the time I have a FWC Hawk in the bed and I consistently see 11 mpg.

Yeah, I can’t have that. 14-15 empty would mean 12-13 loaded with bed full of gear.

I had a ‘15 F-150. 2.7, 3.55. Totally stock was around 23-24mpg. I added 33’s and was down a couple mpg. Still above 20. On trips, packed down, ~19. These are all highway numbers, going around 70.

Towing, I was towing a ~4-5k lb enclosed trailer (6x12) and at 75-80mph, mpg was way down as expected, at around 8mpg. If I were towing a trailer like this often, I’d go 3/4 ton for sure, as the mpg difference wouldn’t be that much.
 

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