No dissassemble Number 5!!

[IncorpoRatedX]

Well I just went through 406 pages of the electrical portion of the FSM for the 96 montero, couldnt find ECU pinouts, visually the montero ecu looks the same as a 3kgt vr4 of the same year, has the same style plugs, same quantity of plugs. dont wnat to just plug a 3kgt ecu in though and hope for the best.

anyone have access to the ECU pinouts? 96 SR 6G74

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

current shopping list:

engine rebuild kit
3kgt vr4 ecu
dsm 450cc injectors
3kgt vr4 fuel pressure reg
injector resistor pack from vr4
safc
single turbo of proper size, thinking ebay 50 trim since i'll be running low boost, i know they hold up to 5-10psi long term, it's when you push them up to 15-20psi that they grenade (results have varied)

 

[off-roader]

Maybe check one of the mitsu 3g forums to see if anyone there knows if it'll work?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

after the fact, i found a couple of threads indicating it's a direct swap, i'll keep digging, but thanks for the idea.

http://6g72rwd.forumcircle.com/viewtopic.php?t=37&
Going into some detail on the year breaks and ease of swapping

http://www.3sgto.org/3000gt-stealth-gto-related-topics/1820-99-montero-ecu-92-stealth-tt.html
going into detail on using a reflashable 99 montero ecu in a 3S, unfortunately I'm not keen on the work involved (board modifications) but i'll run it by my brother and see what he thinks.

 

[SoCalMonty]

You know, the number of changes that need to made and parts that need to be tracked down almost surpasses that of the number required to put in a 302 or a 350 (which ever is your flavor...I happen to like them both). And the aftermarket is about 10,000% bigger than the Mitsu aftermarket, so any bolt-on you could possibly imagine is cheap and plentiful, and the engines are plenty reliable and cheap to work on.

Have you considered going that route?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

You know, the number of changes that need to made and parts that need to be tracked down almost surpasses that of the number required to put in a 302 or a 350 (which ever is your flavor...I happen to like them both). And the aftermarket is about 10,000% bigger than the Mitsu aftermarket, so any bolt-on you could possibly imagine is cheap and plentiful, and the engines are plenty reliable and cheap to work on.

Have you considered going that route?

yeah i have most of the **** laying around to turbo this thing... free is a lot cheaper than $1

also, no mitsu engine, no interest from me. otherwise I would have stuffed a v8 in my 73 wagon instead of the turbo 4g63...

 

[off-roader]

And the aftermarket is about 10,000% bigger than the Mitsu aftermarket, so any bolt-on you could possibly imagine is cheap and plentiful, and the engines are plenty reliable and cheap to work on.

I dont know... The mitsu tuner market is pretty massive...

 

[SoCalMonty]

I should have specified...for the 3.5L DOHC engine, there's not much out there at all...probably because we only had it in the states for ~4 years. Maybe a filter and a cat-back if you check the common aftermarket sources. But it's not common to find chips, cams, cam gears, internals, etc.

Nothing at all like a 4G63...it has massive aftermarket support thanks to the DSM crowd and you can buy performance parts from a local auto parts chain store. lol.

Still, though...I don't think anything can touch the aftermarket of the SBC. It's been around for soooo long. You can buy crate engines in several flavors from a Pep Boys/Auto Zone/Kragen.

Try asking them for crate 6G74 engines and see how many options they have! Or ask for 6G74 cams...or chips...or cam gears...or headers...or exhaust systems...or intake setups...or pistons...or rods...

Though, I don't know what parts can be shared with the 6G72, which does have at least a little aftermarket support here. But if those guys are swapping in 6G74's, there must be a reason. lol.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

point taken, but your ideas are sacrilegious in my eyes.

 

[SoCalMonty]

Question...

If 3KGT people have put the 6G74 into their cars...can the 6G72-TT be made to fit in the Montero's bay? Seems that would be most logical choice for OEM Mitsu power in the Montero...???

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

Question...

If 3KGT people have put the 6G74 into their cars...can the 6G72-TT be made to fit in the Montero's bay? Seems that would be most logical choice for OEM Mitsu power in the Montero...???

yes but you'd be going backwards...

the 6G74 is a powerhouse and built like a monster from the factory, so they're putting the 6G74 engine in and boosting the crap out of it.

putting the 6G72 into the montero would lose the torque we need and push the power band up into the higher RPM's, useless in an SUV.

now a 6G74 with a small frame exhaust turbo would put quick spooling and strong mid range powerband, right where we want it. I'm talking cruising down the highway at 65 on stock gears with 37's, no worries.

this is mostly speculation but i'm pretty familiar with turbo engines, take it with a grain of salt if you like.

 

[SoCalMonty]

putting the 6G72 into the montero would lose the torque we need and push the power band up into the higher RPM's, useless in an SUV.

Quite the opposite, actually.

6G72 (2nd gen VR4):
320 hp @ 6000 rpm
315 lb/ft @ 2500 rpm

6G74:
215 hp @ 5000 rpm
228 lb/ft @ 3000 rpm

...no contest. The 72 makes WAYYYY more TQ, and way lower in the power band. Get a boost controller and it will make even more torque, even lower. Why mess with custom crap on the 74, when the 72 is already in a MUCH better position in stock form?!

I was friends with the owner of LMI turbos before **** hit the fan over there, and he had a number of 3KGT's...it's pretty much all he worked on. One of them was close to 1,000awhp. Anyway, if you keep the little 9B's, or maybe 14's, your power band will still be lower (and TQ curve much more broad) than the 6G74. It's also much safer with the 8:1 CR.

So yeah...the 6G74 might be "better" for a full-tilt build. But keeping it next to stock, and for simplicity's sake - if the 6G72 *does* fit, it's just a way better option IMHO. Better power band, and a lot more pulling power. I just have no idea if it fits.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

Quite the opposite, actually.

6G72 (2nd gen VR4):
320 hp @ 6000 rpm
315 lb/ft @ 2500 rpm

6G74:
215 hp @ 5000 rpm
228 lb/ft @ 3000 rpm

...no contest. The 72 makes WAYYYY more TQ, and way lower in the power band. Get a boost controller and it will make even more torque, even lower. Why mess with custom crap on the 74, when the 72 is already in a MUCH better position in stock form?!

I was friends with the owner of LMI turbos before **** hit the fan over there, and he had a number of 3KGT's...it's pretty much all he worked on. One of them was close to 1,000awhp. Anyway, if you keep the little 9B's, or maybe 14's, your power band will still be lower (and TQ curve much more broad) than the 6G74. It's also much safer with the 8:1 CR.

So yeah...the 6G74 might be "better" for a full-tilt build. But keeping it next to stock, and for simplicity's sake - if the 6G72 *does* fit, it's just a way better option IMHO. Better power band, and a lot more pulling power. I just have no idea if it fits.

You're comparing apple to oranges, boosted to NA

6G72 DOHC NA DOHC
220 hp @ 6000 rpm
201 lbft @ 4500 rpm

vs

6G72 (2nd gen VR4):
320 hp @ 6000 rpm
315 lb/ft @ 2500 rpm


thats 72 vs 72, apply similar gains to the 6g74, which already starts higher in torque than the 6G72 NA

You're talking the difference between complete engine swap, mapping out IC piping for two turbos and likely not gaining anything turbo 72 vs turbo 74. im looking at bolting some **** on and routing a single turbo.

 

[SoCalMonty]

That's exactly my point. It's not as easy as "bolting some **** on." And routing IC plumbing for the 72TT is a lot easier (and would end up much less ghetto-fabbed) than custom turbo manifolds for a turbo 74.

Since you've got 3 runners on each side of the engine bay, where were you gonna mount that single turbo so it's plumbed into all 6 cylinders worth of exhaust stream?

The 72TT engine swap would be primarily a bolt-on affair (it seems...but I keep asking and nobody seems to know for sure...). The only "custom" work with the 72TT swap would be engine mounts (stupid easy) and IC plumbing (stupid easy). Even if you paid someone else for that part, it wouldn't cost much...certainly less than custom turbo manifolds for the 74-turbo conversion.

And you'd be running standalone engine management on the 74-turbo?! Again...easier and cheaper to swap in the 72TT harness and run that. The programming is already done for you. Mapping custom software is not "bolting some **** on." I think it's a lot more work that you realize.

I've done it both ways. Just like you hear on the message boards, "it's cheaper and easier in the long run to start with the turbo setup, than it is to properly turbo the N/A version," followed by "sell your N/A and get the turbo, it's cheaper and easier." You hear that on 3SI, on Z32 boards, on Porsche boards - pretty much everywhere that a N/A and Turbo version were offered side by side. And there's a reason you hear it...it IS cheaper and easier, unless the +T setup is a true junkyard setup with junkyard parts and bird-crap-looking welds on the garage-built manifolds. A solid setup will cost more and be more work than the 72TT in the end.

Just my opinion. Like I said, I've done it both ways in various cars. I think if you wrote out a build sheet, you'd see there's more to it than "bolting some **** on."

Good luck either way. And I really dig that wagon...I'm g@y for wagons. lol.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

I guess it all depends on what resources you have available to you.

I have a full shop that was built for building road course racing cars, Bridgeport mill, mig welding equipment, a surplus of 6G72TT parts and enough scrap tubing to build just about any exhaust/ic set up.

I would run a 6G72TT front manifold on the passenger side, stock manifold on the driverside, cross over tube with flex underneath to passengerside, collector for a t3 flange, mount internal gated turbo, v-band outlet to 2.5 downpipe to 3 inch exhaust...
oil cooled 50 trim turbo, dsm 450cc injectors, walbro 255 pump, vr4 injector resistor pack, vr4 fuel pressure ref, vr4 ecu on stock montero harness (still verifying pin outs but 3kgt guys are using reflashable montero ecu's in their 3k's)
then a simple SAFC and wideband for tuning.

Most of the above, i just have laying around, looking for an excuse to be put to use... I have a budget of $1860 for this project and I intend to come in well under budget, i'll keep up with this thread as I go.

btw, 6G72 will bolt in, but the coolant routing and intake manifold has to be messed with. not sure the driverside turbo would clear the brake master and booster either.