Old Rovers Too Feeble?

[David Harris]

However, with newer vehicles the basic mechanical parts that are REQUIRED to function to get you home are more reliable.

While vehicles like the LR3 have fancy air suspension, computer controlled diff locks, etc that can have issues at times. The drivetrain and engine management rarely have issues that require fixing on the trail. They can be limped home with failing fancy accessories and repaired later.

The problem is those major parts that are required to function to get you home are dependent upon electronics to function, so it doesn't matter how good they are if you have an electrical or computer problem. Leave an LR3 in a field for 40 years and see if it will fire up without major work.

 

[Christian P.]

These days, I would prefer to get stuck because of failing electronic than get killed because of lack of airbag.
I also prefer to get to my destination well rested thanks to a proper suspension, lower noise, lower fumes, better seats and working a/c.

But that's just me...

 

[Chazz Layne]

I love how the Land Ops guys had to call in a flat bed tow truck due to failed sensors that turned this modern rig into imobile trail art.

I see they still haven't fixed that issue. My 2004 Disco did the same thing, and was ultimately repaired with a healthy dose of coil springs.

That said, I find it only natural that our skills and spares kit should evolve as our vehicles do. A little extra learning is really all that is required to address many of the issues with a modern vehicle in the field. Case in point, that vehicle height sensor is easy to swap out on the side of the trail with a minimal toolkit, and is a light/small enough spare to carry. The same could be said for most of the other relays and sensors that are likely to fail, and even the air springs themselves. I consider this a more than fair trade for the heavier spares I don't need to carry, because the newer designs/metallurgy are less likely to fail.


Entertaining and thought provoking thread... it's been a while since I read one that simultaneously made me feel a warm-and-fuzzy fondness of my "old school" Rover, and amusingly annoyed at it's modern electronic kludgery.

 

[Plebian]

The problem is those major parts that are required to function to get you home are dependent upon electronics to function, so it doesn't matter how good they are if you have an electrical or computer problem. Leave an LR3 in a field for 40 years and see if it will fire up without major work.

OH NO NOT ELECTRONICS!! I hope if you're ever hospitalized you request an iron lung because modern medical devices have electronics on them that could fail at anytime. But by God, the iron lung is far, far superior to modern technology because there are no computers to fail.

Give me a break.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Vehicle electronics are not made to the same service life standards as medical devices. Some day they might, but not now.

 

[David Harris]

OH NO NOT ELECTRONICS!! I hope if you're ever hospitalized you request an iron lung because modern medical devices have electronics on them that could fail at anytime. But by God, the iron lung is far, far superior to modern technology because there are no computers to fail.

Give me a break.

I've personally been present in a hospital when a piece of electronic medical equipment failed. They used a failsafe until they brought in a new one. Now if that happened out in a remote area a new piece of equipment would have to flown in, or the patient flown out. So, your comparison, like so many of your statements so far, just doesn't hold water. . .

 

[overlander]

My son had a dead battery in his 2009 jeep key fob. Caused the truck to turn off after starting. Good thing he was in a store parking lot and could purchase a new one. What if he was out off road 50 miles or so?:Wow1:

this is such a good example of making the case on newer vehicles. Try diagnosing a failed immobilizer in the field. That'll leave you stranded with a perfectly good powertrain otherwise!

Before I was became a Roverphile, I was a Jeep enthusiast. I always had a spare ignition ECU, and coil and cap, and it was still a PITA to isolate the issues in the field. I don't miss that crap now.

 

[JSBriggs]

Before I was became a Roverphile, I was a Jeep enthusiast.

Ahhh the truth comes out! (but dont feel bad, I was too)

-Jeff

 

[David Harris]

this is such a good example of making the case on newer vehicles. Try diagnosing a failed immobilizer in the field. That'll leave you stranded with a perfectly good powertrain otherwise!

Before I was became a Roverphile, I was a Jeep enthusiast. I always had a spare ignition ECU, and coil and cap, and it was still a PITA to isolate the issues in the field. I don't miss that crap now.

Yeah. Modern vehicles may fail less often but when they do they can really be a puzzle to get going again, even for mechanic who works on that model all the time. It's the complexity that does it. Old Rovers are known for their electrical faults but with so few circuits it's easy to isolate and fix in the field.

 

[MtnX]

Vehicle electronics are not made to the same service life standards as medical devices. Some day they might, but not now.

Medical devices also aren't expected to work over and over, year after year, being immersed in mud and water, bashed on roots and rock, and heated and cooled over and over in a temperature gradient that may vary over 100*.

If medical devices fail, there is either a replacement available, or other redundant systems in place - all of which are monitored directly and/ or remotely by numerous personnel. This is much more logistically feasible within acres of a building which creates a sterile/ semi-sterile environment, is well lit, and temperature regulated.

Regardless how efficient the newer vehicles are; if the electo-gremlins decide to party - there aren't many "trails" that one would drive out of. Maybe knowing that the newer fuel-sipping vehicle is being "super green" while you run the AC waiting for someone to tow you out is comforting. I'd rather have 15mpg, roll the windows down, enjoy the trail, and make it back home - even if I had to spin a wrench or two along the way.

 

[IceRover]

I have had 1 Range Rover Classic (1985) and 5 Defenders (1987 110, 99 110 , 2x2007 110s and now a 2006 130DCPU).
All of them have broken down at one time or another, the older ones usually needet a lot of work before trips to the Icelandic highland, but all where able to deliver us safely home. I had a Dodge Ram(1985) before the Rovers and it also always got us home from the highland, although it broke a lot of drivetrain components when playing close to home. When on an offroad trip in offbeat locations I drive the vehicle like I want to get it home again in one piece .... as if it was feeble

 

[madmax718]

there are also massive computers that are needed to talk to all the onboard computers. I don;t know if they are necessary for "function", but I know they are there.

 

[1leglance]

OH NO NOT ELECTRONICS!! I hope if you're ever hospitalized you request an iron lung because modern medical devices have electronics on them that could fail at anytime. But by God, the iron lung is far, far superior to modern technology because there are no computers to fail.

Give me a break.

Well I work in a huge hospital with lots of electronics and OF COURSE I want the best and newest to save my life....
BUT WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT URBAN MEDICAL CARE ARE WE?

This is a discussion of "feeble" Series Rovers not being up to snuff for the OP to go "modern exploring" so he picked an FJ40 instead.

And to stay ON TOPIC, I will always prefer old school simple over fancy new electronics. But that is me.
Great thread even if there are people who don't bother to focus on the discussion at hand.

 

[Mack73]

I see a lot of hearsay in these posts.

I've been offroading an LR3 for several years now. The local group I go out with is 90% LR3's. There is usually the token DI/DII.

There has been several incidents of the LR3's having electronic issues out on the trails over the years (height sensors, steering angle sensor, down on bump stops, etc). Not once has an LR3 failed to be repaired in more than 15 minutes with an IIDTool and pulling fuses to disable faulted system.

So rather than all this "what if" talk. Who has ACTUALLY been in, or with a group that has had an LR3 fail to make it home at the end of the day due to electronics?

 

[thedjjack]

Look at all the 20 year old vehicle circuit boards failing now....These new trucks with everything running off a computer built with Chinese low end parts are going to be a nightmare....

ABS, airbags, navigation, management systems...you can have them

Give me a mechanical diesel and a standard trans and a transfer case with a leaver....

My work boat has fly by wire electronics....shift actuator goes out and it will not shift into gear...you mechanically by-pass that as the manual says and the computer shuts the engine down???? so it is in gear but the motor will not run thanks computer engineers....thanks