Which sign(s) will make you turn around? You are only a poor overlander, not a rock crawler, you are not into 4x4 stuff, and you have never found the need for lockers and heavy duty axles or fully boxed bumpers.
Do you just ignore them all and hope that if things get nasty you still can turn around? What if the conditions behind you have changed in the few hours since you went through? Or do you heed them all and go home? Why bother going out at all then, I am sure you can find the photos on line anyway.
None of those would have turned me around. My truck is easily capable of any road to which somebody has affixed a sign. At least that I have encountered so far. I haven't been to Utah, so maybe I'd be surprised. Do any of those signs apply to the photos Jack posted? I doubt it.
If you do the kind of adventuring that we do, including the drive to and from your planned adventure (which admittedly will also include a bunch of paved and gravel roads) you need a vehicle with some size and some road manners. With this choice you have already made a huge sacrifice when it comes to the vehicles off road abilities. That is just a fact.
My Disco is too heavy, has too much body work, has a crappy departure angle (even with trimmed quarters) has too small tires and on and on. So why would I want to make it even worse but installing a bumper (or anything else) that won't put up with abuse when there is an alternative? It just doesn't make sense to me.
You're exactly agreeing with me. Soon as you decide to take a road legal vehicle, you're already suffering a huge disadvantage. And you're the guy with 300lbs on the roof, telling other people they are limiting themselves by their bumper choice. Not to mention, my approach angle with the ARB is still better than your departure angle. The major limitation of the D2 is the back end, not the front, even with an ARB. Great, your RTE will let you clear obstacles on the front, only to get hung up on the back. And that's better how?
Why do you go searching out the most difficult trail you can on which to drive your truck, until you break something? So, you're not taking multi-day extreme trails with your family. If you just want to experience a trail, why not use a machine more suited? Does it make you more manly, or cooler, to do it in a truck instead of say, a dirtbike? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Heck, if for whatever reason you insist it must be done in a truck, a JK Rubicon with a mild lift and winch bumper is more capable than your Disco will ever be. Why is a guy who started with a fairly limited platform telling other guys not to limit themselves?
Your argument that there is only one way that a truck should be built has no logic whatsoever. It's flawed right from the start, and every step of the way after that. The only thing you're arguing is that YOU think everybody else should think like you, because you have "The Way".
Scott's build is a different story. He is not building this D1 to be his "go to" vehicle when he ventures into the unknown. He has other vehicle(s) for that. Maybe he would make different choices if this was his one and only truck... I don't know.
As is the case for myself. I have another vehicle that will take me down trails impassible by any road legal vehicle. My truck has to be safe and comfortable as a long distance tow rig and semi-daily driver because my other car is a semi-legal trackday car. The higher you lift your truck and the more weight you put on the roof, the worse it gets on the road.
If it is your truck... and you have researched the parts and know what you are putting on, ok. If you know a bumper (or anything else) is weak but you like the way it looks, ok. I do not have any problem with that. Your truck... your call. I do have an issue with saying "I am an overlander not a 4-wheeler so I don't need any of that".
And that's exactly the case. I know the RTE would have cost twice as much to get, I think it looks like crap, and could be more difficult with legal/insurance issues. I knew the reputation of the ARB, planned to shore up the mounting, but found when I got it that I didn't even need to, it's already got a better mounting than the RTE. I might box in the backside this winter. But it's frankly the least of my worries right now.
Are you seriously saying that an ARB bumper would have survived an impact like that, and left that much of the vehicle intact? Seriously??
I'm saying nobody knows either way. You can't claim that you know it wouldn't. Did that truck suffer frame damage?
And you're going to try and argue that an RTE would have bent the same way as the ARB on that stump? Seriously??
Who's to say. I don't worry about it, because I don't drive like that.
More is better, right? What, are you afraid you're going to sheer one of your vertical "pins" so it's better to have two? Are two "pins" better than one when trying to keep the bumper from rotating? I'm not sure I get what having two vertical "pins" mean..??
No. The bearing strength of the frame at the mounting holes. It's pretty thin stuff. Yes, more is better.
How about when you're winching out another vehicle and you need to push your bumper up against a tree to keep the truck from moving? Do you feel comfortable doing this with your ARB? I don't mind doing this in my truck and I've done it to the point of stalling my winch. I know Rob D. has done this to the point of stalling his Husky10. Would you like to try this with your ARB bumper? Even in "overlanding" you've got to winch others out, right? When there is nothing to anchor to what route are you going to take? You just going to turn around and go get help?
I've done exactly that. I stalled out my EP9 trying to pull out a stump with a doubled up line and snatch block and the bumper pushing on a tree. The bumper didn't bend, but flexed a bit, moved back when I released pressure.
Did you look at ARB and think about your kids and how safe the ARB would be compared to other bumpers on the market in the case of an accident? Were you sold on the ARB's ground clearance?
Yeah, I absolutely looked at my kids and realized how much safer they'd be if daddy doesn't have an airbag blowing up from an impact lower than design intent. As I said, the ground clearance is fine. I've never been grounded out on the front, always the back.
Edit: I wonder if the damaged ARBs are mostly SRS Versions???
I think it's mostly the older versions without any vertical pinning. The only thing stopping the bumper from rotating is the friction on the horizontal joints to the frame horns. You can't even get a very good clamp load there because the frame holes aren't even sleeved. Tighten the bolts too much and you just crush the frame. You need the vertical pins to lock it in place.
Here's mine for comparison (Edit: oops, that's not my truck, but the same parts):
It's hard to make out, but there are extensions on the top and bottom surface of the frame with two bolts on each side. The accordion section could bend but IIRC it takes 16,000 lbs to move them.
Of course it is Dan. We have known for a while
I suspected it, but the lack of spelling errors threw me off.
