hillbillyjake
Explorer
couple questions. aren't most flare guns single shots? what happens if the first shot is less than effective? if you us ethe flare gun in a self-defense situation would it be considered a weapon? just a thought
jake
jake
LilKJ
Adventurer
Bayonet attachment?:coffeedrink:
My $.02...
I grew up in Alaska and there's a much different mentality there than most places... I'm actually surprised to hear that most people don't carry on 4x4 trips. My .223 is just another tool that goes in the Jeep for trips. We live in a country with lots of potentially dangerous animals, no one can deny that. In a worst case breakdown situation... you may need said gun to hunt for food. Having a firearm can take a desperate situation and turn it into an inconvenience when the issue of food is removed. People are just another animal to encounter... some are curious, some want nothing to do with you, most just want to know what you're cooking, and a couple of them mean you harm.
Long story short... for me, carrying a firearm is the same as carrying an avalanche transceiver: a tool to supplement your personal knowledge, risk assessment, and level of acceptable risk.
Cody1771
Explorer
Canada....let me get this straight you can carry a shot gun but you can't carry a handgun.....now that's just plain stupid! Someone explain that to me...please.
well if what you meen by carrying you cant just go walking around town with a shotgun
you cant carry any type of gun on you in public, it has to be in your vehicle. alot of people hunt with shotguns, not to mention shooting skeet is a big sport. hand guns are limited to the range. over here the mentality is that no one should need a gun for self protection. that is the job of the police. so thats how it is.Edit: some intresting facts:
Suicide is still the leading cause of firearm death in the U.S., representing 54.6% of total 2006 gun deaths nationwide. In 2006, the U.S. firearm suicide total was 16,883, a decrease from 2005 total of 17,002 gun suicides. Total gun suicides in Illinois for 2006 were 372, a decrease of 12% from the 2005 number 424. Over half of suicides in the U.S. are committed with firearms.
Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 2004 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
5 people in New Zealand
37 people in Sweden
56 people in Australia
184 people in Canada
19 people in Japan
73 people in the UK
11,344 people in the United States
I do not agree that people should be able to carry handguns, but that is just my opinion. i do not own one and never will. a good shotgun or rifle is all i need for the bush and i would try not to point one at a human being, because in canada even in self defence you will goto jail for murder. or at very least manslaughter.
Edit to show what i really ment
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RedRocker
Adventurer
Common sense, rare these days.
Hear, hear ! Well said mate:smiley_drive:
mrbishi
Adventurer
Interesting read guys.
Here in Australia it is pretty uncommon to carry a gun when on the trail/camping (unless you're a hunter or a farmer on a property).
We are lucky that we don't have the large dangerous predators that you have over there (just lots of the smaller ones haha).
Firearms are controlled here with licenses and registration needing to be obtained before being able to own one. Showing competency before being able to own a firearm is surely a good thing.
Those murder statistics are shocking :Wow1:
Here in Australia it is pretty uncommon to carry a gun when on the trail/camping (unless you're a hunter or a farmer on a property).
We are lucky that we don't have the large dangerous predators that you have over there (just lots of the smaller ones haha).
Firearms are controlled here with licenses and registration needing to be obtained before being able to own one. Showing competency before being able to own a firearm is surely a good thing.
Those murder statistics are shocking :Wow1:
Well I hate to point up stupid again, but going to jail for murder while defending you and yours....be it wife, kids or self from death is just plain stupid! Do you really believe that you should just standby and watch your wife die at the hands of a criminal and do nothing or do something and go to jail for murder to be just?????? would you do nothing in your power to save your self if someone threatened your life and you knew or suspected that they could and would kill you? If someone attempts to take my life from me I expect my wife to terminate that threat and she expects the same......Geeeezwell if what you meen by carrying you cant just go walking around town with a shotgun
Edit: some intresting facts:
Suicide is still the leading cause of firearm death in the U.S., representing 54.6% of total 2006 gun deaths nationwide. In 2006, the U.S. firearm suicide total was 16,883, a decrease from 2005 total of 17,002 gun suicides. Total gun suicides in Illinois for 2006 were 372, a decrease of 12% from the 2005 number 424. Over half of suicides in the U.S. are committed with firearms.
Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 2004 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
5 people in New Zealand
37 people in Sweden
56 people in Australia
184 people in Canada
19 people in Japan
73 people in the UK
11,344 people in the United States
I do not agree that people should be able to carry handguns, but that is just my opinion. i do not own one and never will. a good shotgun or rifle is all i need for the bush and i would NEVER point one at a human being, because in canada even in self defence you will goto jail for murder. or at very least manslaughter.
Cody1771
Explorer
no, im just saying thats what the law states. i dont own a handgun... but a shotgun is just as effective, if not more. but then again someone breaking into your house and putting your life in danger is very rare. unless you belong to a rivel gang or something... theres a reason gun control / laws / licencing regulations is a very, very hot topic in any country.
sorry edit: what i said above about never pointing a gun at someone is kind of wrong i guess. if it was at me i would attempt to difuse the situation without it ending in bloodshed. but if it was at my wife/gf or kids i wouldnt hesitate very long. plus, in canada your required to store your guns and ammo in seperate locked containers... try digging up your keys, getting into your locker, unlocking your gun, loading it before said murderer is on you. this will be my last post on the subject because its just a moot point trying to argue when people have different mindsets, and i understand this, but that doesnt meen i agree.
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cnynrat
Expedition Leader
Not sure where you got your data, but the FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2004 shows a total of 16,137 murders in the U.S., 55% of which were committed by handguns. So the actual number is 8,837, not 11,344.
Showing absolute numbers skews the data quite dramatically. If you had shown the data normalized to population the U.S. is still highest on your list, but the comparison to the other countries on your list is not nearly as dramatic.
This brings me to the list of countries you selected. To fully understand the correlation between firearms ownership and homicide rates you would need to look at all countries, not just a selected few. You would need to explain, for instance, why in Mexico where private citizens are virtually prohibited from owning firearms, the murder with firearm rate in 2004 was double that of the U.S.. At the other end of the spectrum you would need to explain why Norway and Switzerland, both countries with relatively high firearms ownership rates, have per capita murder rates near the low end of the spectrum.
A more complete view of the statistics shows that the data can not be explained simply by looking at firearms ownership rates. Rather, there are other factors at work that drive the unacceptably high violent crime rates in the U.S.
I am happy to live in a country where they still have not completely taken away the individual's right to self defense.
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As far as I can tell there is some correlation between having guns and not having guns....if queen Liz is on your money...no guns...if not, guns! Look it the Aussies! talk about a country built on freedom yet celebrate the queens birthday...no guns
tdesanto
Expedition Leader
As said previously, you have to look at the whole picture…not just a single stat. You didn’t even list population estimates to help understand the stat you quoted. 2 minutes on the web and I found these.
Population (2009 estimates):
New Zealand: 4,315,800
Sweden: 9,283,722
Australia: 21,855,016
Canada: 33,763,000
Japan: 127,590,000
UK: 61,113,205
So, I must not be very good at research, as it took me a bit longer to find some data on firearm (not just handguns) related homicides in US states. The latest I could find was for 2006 using this tool provided by the CDC. I took the US numbers for comparison (also from 2006), which equated to 12,791 firearm related deaths in a population of 298,754,819 people. So, clearly higher than all of those countries listed, but here’s how it breaks down as a ratio using your murder stats and the population numbers I found:
New Zealand: 1:863,160
Sweden: 1:250,911
Australia: 1:390,268
Canada: 1:183,494
Japan: 1:6,715,263
UK: 1:837,167
Texas: 1:22,660
US: 1:23,357
I threw TX in there as it’s similar in population to Australia and Canada.
So, listed in order from the least to the highest:
Japan: 1:6,715,263
New Zealand: 1:863,160
UK: 1:837,167
Australia: 1:390,268
Sweden: 1:250,911
Canada: 1:183,494
US: 1:23,357
Texas: 1:22,660
Here are a few more that are interesting for the US. I’m using the same CDC stats for 2006 found here. I’m simply dividing the population by the number of firearm related deaths for each state.
New York: 1:33,828
California: 1:19,251
Arizona: 1:15,932
Pennsylvania: 1:20,915
Compare those last few to TX…that’s interesting. I hadn’t expected that.
So, it would have been nice to get all of the data from the same source, as that’s obviously better. For all of the countries I list, I used your numbers, except for US and individual US states. My numbers for the US were actually worse than what you showed, so I don’t think that’s an issue for this discussion.
Population (2009 estimates):
New Zealand: 4,315,800
Sweden: 9,283,722
Australia: 21,855,016
Canada: 33,763,000
Japan: 127,590,000
UK: 61,113,205
So, I must not be very good at research, as it took me a bit longer to find some data on firearm (not just handguns) related homicides in US states. The latest I could find was for 2006 using this tool provided by the CDC. I took the US numbers for comparison (also from 2006), which equated to 12,791 firearm related deaths in a population of 298,754,819 people. So, clearly higher than all of those countries listed, but here’s how it breaks down as a ratio using your murder stats and the population numbers I found:
New Zealand: 1:863,160
Sweden: 1:250,911
Australia: 1:390,268
Canada: 1:183,494
Japan: 1:6,715,263
UK: 1:837,167
Texas: 1:22,660
US: 1:23,357
I threw TX in there as it’s similar in population to Australia and Canada.
So, listed in order from the least to the highest:
Japan: 1:6,715,263
New Zealand: 1:863,160
UK: 1:837,167
Australia: 1:390,268
Sweden: 1:250,911
Canada: 1:183,494
US: 1:23,357
Texas: 1:22,660
Here are a few more that are interesting for the US. I’m using the same CDC stats for 2006 found here. I’m simply dividing the population by the number of firearm related deaths for each state.
New York: 1:33,828
California: 1:19,251
Arizona: 1:15,932
Pennsylvania: 1:20,915
Compare those last few to TX…that’s interesting. I hadn’t expected that.
So, it would have been nice to get all of the data from the same source, as that’s obviously better. For all of the countries I list, I used your numbers, except for US and individual US states. My numbers for the US were actually worse than what you showed, so I don’t think that’s an issue for this discussion.
bugnout
Adventurer
Another interesting stat to look at is suicide rate by country. This is from the World Heath Organization website
Country, Year collected, male, female (per 1000 population)
New Zealand 98 23.7 6.9
Sweden 99 19.7 8.0
Australia 99 21.2 5.1
Canada 98 19.5 5.1
Japan 99 36.5 14.1
UK 99 11.8 3.3
USA 99 17.6 4.1
Some others- with restrictive gun laws
Finland 00 34.6 10.9
Norway 99 19.5 6.8
Denmark 98 20.9 8.1
France 99 26.1 9.4
Belgium 96 29.4 10.7
Other countries that enjoy more liberty
Isreal 97 10.5 2.6
Switzerland 99 26.5 10.0
The U.S. is about in the middle of the suicide rate curve, but the distribution of these other nations with both restrictive and liberal gun laws means it would be dubious to draw any conclusions about the relationship between suicide rate and gun ownership.
Country, Year collected, male, female (per 1000 population)
New Zealand 98 23.7 6.9
Sweden 99 19.7 8.0
Australia 99 21.2 5.1
Canada 98 19.5 5.1
Japan 99 36.5 14.1
UK 99 11.8 3.3
USA 99 17.6 4.1
Some others- with restrictive gun laws
Finland 00 34.6 10.9
Norway 99 19.5 6.8
Denmark 98 20.9 8.1
France 99 26.1 9.4
Belgium 96 29.4 10.7
Other countries that enjoy more liberty
Isreal 97 10.5 2.6
Switzerland 99 26.5 10.0
The U.S. is about in the middle of the suicide rate curve, but the distribution of these other nations with both restrictive and liberal gun laws means it would be dubious to draw any conclusions about the relationship between suicide rate and gun ownership.
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
Washington DC has some of the strictest gun control laws in America.. they also have the highest murder rate with guns in the Nation.
As for Canada, any nation that makes is a crime to defend human life with lethal force is not worth living in IMHO.
