Perfect off-highway tire = LTX? What?

[hemifoot]

This is Expedition Portal. Not Pirate. I have several sets too. When I am out touring i don't take an extra set of wheels and tires. Do you?

no,i swap them when it calls for it,smartass.save your pedantic responses for someone else.

 

[80t0ylc]

This is Expedition Portal. Not Pirate. I have several sets too. When I am out touring i don't take an extra set of wheels and tires. Do you?

Don't know what you're eluding to here, but I think you made your point about 10 pages ago. I understand this is your thread, but wow, talk about beating a dead horse! I agree with Gary (@gwittman ) as far as the LTX being an excellent highway tire and it would be a good choice if most of one's miles were on pavement - including winter travel. Being a Michelin tire, it's extremely well built and sure, it holds up to a lot of offroad abuse, but it's far from an all around choice for me. Not to mention, the only size LTX close enough for me to run is LT275/65R20, but I don't want to run 20" wheels. Too short of sidewall IMHO.

 

[OmutaX]

And where does it fall short for you? In what off highway scenarios did it fall for you?

I bought these tires out of fascination from this thread and couldn't be more pleased with their performance. Just drove back from Montana and Idaho through snow storms and -10F degree weather and they performed admirably with much greater than expected traction. I personally wheeled with these around rocky trails in SoCal and they have crawled without a hitch and also take you there and back on the freeways with a smooth, quiet ride. Best SUV tires ever, thank you.

 

[94SRUNNER]

@pskhaat - curious if you have looked at the Defender LTX M/S versus the LTX M/S2? From my research they share an identical tread design, with the only major difference (aside from the name of the tire and sidewall design) being tread compound used in the Defender tires, "Evertread".

I currently run 265/65/18 (~31.5"x10.5") LTX M/S2's on my 06' LX 470 100 Series and am getting a set of Land Cruiser wheels re-finished to install with a new set of tires in the spring. I'd like to go with the Defender, but was hoping to move up to a 255/70/18 (~32"x10"). Unfortunately, the Defenders are not offered in that size, but are in the LTX M/S2s. I've had the LTX M/S2's on since Oct. 16' and have logged ~54k miles...they currently have >70% tread left (with reg. rotations). So I would not hesitate going with these tires again...

 

[bjp]

If you’re willing to go up another half inch, the Defenders are available in 265/70r18.

 

[94SRUNNER]

If you’re willing to go up another half inch, the Defenders are available in 265/70r18.

That is also a option I have not considered...more to ponder.

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

Just put a set on the Chevy 2500HD in the 265/75-16 LR-E flavor. I have these on the wife’s Suburban (p-metric) and am very happy with the drivability. This truck sees mainly highway with some FS road driving. If I can negotiate the Mojave Rd after lowering pressures I’ll be impressed.

 

[pnichols]

The off-highway tire debate is over, and I’m embarrassed. The winner has been anointed. Sans oil. The inevitable my-tire-is-better threads may now cease. Allow me to proclaim: I've found the tire and they are the prosaic LTXen. Or, rather the Michelin Defender LTX M/S as officially called.

¡Heresy I speak! “But brah, you don’t do the trails I do,” “Dude, you don’t know what you’re talkin’ ‘bout,” “Yeah my brother watched this YouTube video, and…”

But hear me out. As most revelations...well...reveal, time, patience, and a "I simply don't care anymore"-approach to things have led me to this nearly universal conclusion. The thing is, everyone who disagrees with the title of this post has every valid counterpoint and argument. For as many years as I dreamed of driving, I had the ubiquitous, full-on belief that “mud-terrain” tires were all there was to own. Nice big lugs, top and side, were the way to go. Better were when one could aftermarket sipe them and stud them out, ‘murica-style. Even as I write this, my daily commuter car in my driveway has Hankook ATMs on it and only because I couldn’t find proper mud-terrains in its P-series sizing.

But I age like fine milk. Classier, better, and more eloquent I don’t become. I realized many years ago that I just really liked the aggressive look of mud- and all-terrain tires. It changed the vehicle: made it--and me by extension--seem more adventurous. Who doesn’t want to play and look the part?

What changed for me was that I had sold my LC80 and switched to an LC100 and I needed new shoes for the new ‘Cruiser. Enter Craigslist: 295/70R18 used LTXen for sale. Interesting. A small hair too tall for the Hundy. Fair price. 5k miles rolled on them. Maybe I can save up for a few years for some real tires. At least these big street tires will get me through for a bit. Something aggressive with big side lugs for all those insane trails I do. Yeah, that. T’will make the truck look cool then. Fo sho!

On these LTXen went, and I took my chances. They trekked us all over across the Sonoran and Mojave deserts, you-name-it every trail we know and find in the Four Corners, and seemingly the breadth and depth of the Morrison Formation. Trailer in tow. These embarrassingly tame and lame tires ran at far less than 10psi for far too many off- and on-highway miles to which I should admit.

But once every day for a while I would feel like a total poser: a wanna-be who didn’t know what kind of tires real folks buy and should run. Then once a week for a while I would avert my eyes away from the tires when I drove somewhere. Then once a year for a while I would decide to rotate them. Maybe I kept forgetting these tires were there because they were so silent I could actually hold a conversation with my children at road speeds without the mud-terrain hum ringing in our ears. Yes, slowly I forgot that I was putting my overlanding cred in jeopardy every time I would pass a fellow wayfarer.

Of real jeopardy, I should tell you of a time last year where after several days of perfect low-pressure traction in deep sand dunes, my tire pressure gauge only reported about a ⅓ of the real, actual pressure. Took forever to fill the tires back up, then subsequently camped from mountain shale and forest roads for weeks at 120psi (←you read that right) wondering what could be so wrong with my suspension. I now carry two pressure gauges; I digress.

And there was that other time (of so many) just a few weeks ago at pavement speed coming around a blind turn on Highway 128 in Utah where we struck a large fallen rock straight-on so hard that one of the tires folded both sidewalls and made my steel OEM rim turn the shape of a valentine heart. No big hammer could ever get that wheel true again. That tire is now my spare, but escaped with zero discernible scapes or damage and balances perfectly.

I have found no terrain that I traverse where these tires don’t do exceedingly well. And they’re not extra-siped. Not studded. Not side-lugged. Not Mud Terrains.

Allow me to summarize:

• Sand? Grippy with no torque yank,
• “Moab”/Slickrock. Stick like old honey in your hair on slickrock. To be fair most tires will,
• Highway? Quiet. Like really car-like quiet. No cupping. Marked increase in fuel economy,
• Towing? High pressure inflation. No, don’t run 120psi,
• Full trail use? No punctures, no chunking. Conformant at low pressures to wrap the surface. Not the slightest bit of negative anecdote for lateral traction.
• Snow + Ice? Look at the designed sipes! and add soft compound. Out of the ballpark in comparison to any legacy AT/MT,
• Mileage? 70k likely with compound still pliable and soft for high-mileage winters.

“Listen, I hear you amigo, but I need a truly aggressive and voided tread. I mean, what about mud?” I’m quite confident the LTXen suck in mud. But so does every mud-terrain tire I’ve ever driven. I’ve been trapped before in mild flash flooding on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon in brand-new knobby MTs, they did jack all to help. Only a winch saved me there, and dozens and dozens of other times.

I need help letting go of my toxic desire for aggressive-looking tires; I’m too old and busy now to worry about my past postulant ways. How do I simply accept these LTXen as arguably superior tires?

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Yep to all of the above ... Michelin LTX Defender tires are exactly what I use on our overkill-chassis-E450 based small Class C motorhome that we carefully take offroad as needed for exploring and camping. I use non-stock size LTX tires on the E450 chassis so as to provide more ground clearance for it everywhere (unlike a lift - which raises only part of the vehicle's components).

Even though our Class C's weight doesn't require it, I use close to full sidewall recommended pressures in the tires so as to keep sidewall flexing - and hence damaging heat - at a minimum to provide long service life.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

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Had these or thier predecessors on both of my K1500 (full size) Chevy Blazers. Highway commuting and some camping/kayaking trips. Even when old, they never let me down. One time. ONE time. Rain and snow at once, with 8 inches on the ground, rain falling, semi slushy, almost mud-like properties, on a slick paved, very inclined driveway. And the tires were old at the time as well.

 

[Explorerinil]

Just put a set on the Chevy 2500HD in the 265/75-16 LR-E flavor. I have these on the wife’s Suburban (p-metric) and am very happy with the drivability. This truck sees mainly highway with some FS road driving. If I can negotiate the Mojave Rd after lowering pressures I’ll be impressed.

I have around 60k on the defenders on my wife’s Tahoe, they have been flawless. They still plenty of tread, I’ll probably replace them mid winter just for assurance. We rotate them every 5k at our oil change interval.

 

[Anti-lander]

If you believe they are great use them.
Some of us have found that these types of "at" tires don't work where we go.
I've personally spent a small fortune on finding the right offroad tire for my use.
I have 3 vehicles and all 3 use a mud tire
My main rig a chevy colorado uses firestone destination m/t, my ranger uses milestar Patagonia m/t and my square body chevy truck uses irok super swamper m/t none of them get stuck with these tire combos in the wet muddy conditions they are used for.

Use what works for your rig but don't preach like you've found the end all tire for all rigs in all conditions. Where I live it only snows a few inches once or twice a year so that rating is useless to me, I don't live on the beach anymore and don't live in the desert we make 2 trips a year to the beach and I've never had an issue with 10.5 to 13 inch wide tires bogging down on pins.

And then there is the black label stuff for racing you can get that aren't dot or street legal and are a super sticky compound. This is a whole other ball game in offroad tires, you won't find any black label a/t tires for good reason they would be useless and no one would buy em.

 

[Ryanmb21]

If you believe they are great use them.
Some of us have found that these types of "at" tires don't work where we go.
I've personally spent a small fortune on finding the right offroad tire for my use.
I have 3 vehicles and all 3 use a mud tire
My main rig a chevy colorado uses firestone destination m/t, my ranger uses milestar Patagonia m/t and my square body chevy truck uses irok super swamper m/t none of them get stuck with these tire combos in the wet muddy conditions they are used for.

Use what works for your rig but don't preach like you've found the end all tire for all rigs in all conditions. Where I live it only snows a few inches once or twice a year so that rating is useless to me, I don't live on the beach anymore and don't live in the desert we make 2 trips a year to the beach and I've never had an issue with 10.5 to 13 inch wide tires bogging down on pins.

And then there is the black label stuff for racing you can get that aren't dot or street legal and are a super sticky compound. This is a whole other ball game in offroad tires, you won't find any black label a/t tires for good reason they would be useless and no one would buy em.

This forum is about vehicle supported travel, not mudding in your back yard. Muds are a one trick pony.

 

[Pskhaat]

Some of us have found that these types of "at" tires don't work where we go.

"Where we go" is quite subjective of course. I just returned from Lockhart Basin on these as an example.

My main rig a chevy colorado uses firestone destination m/t,

Great tires.

don't preach like you've found the end all tire for all rigs in all conditions

No tire does well in mud. My pontification was quite tongue-in-cheek, but in most "overlanding" conditions, I think my statement holds somewhat well.

Where I live it only snows a few inches once or twice a year so that rating is useless to me, I don't live on the beach anymore and don't live in the desert we make 2 trips a year to the beach and I've never had an issue with 10.5 to 13 inch wide tires bogging down on pins.

With 100% all due respect, without what you listed above (and I'm guessing you are neither in a rain forest nor Alaska), it sounds as though you are generally not living near the classical North American overlanding routes or destinations and not necessarily near large swaths of public land. Mad love though for PINS, dope area.

I disagree with you about wide tires, but that's a religious discussion for other threads.

 

[Regcabguy]

I have around 60k on the defenders on my wife’s Tahoe, they have been flawless. They still plenty of tread, I’ll probably replace them mid winter just for assurance. We rotate them every 5k at our oil change interval.

I had them on my wife's 2005 Honda Pilot. Real nice but at about 30K they got too loud for me. Part of the blame is the lousy road isolation properties on the Pilot that year. Silky smooth ride. I now have Cooper Endeavor's which are near silent and were $55 a tire cheaper. Real nice tire.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Yup to retain some level of ok road noise they went with a closed side wall tread design which all modern good highway tires typically have. The solution is having enough open channels front to back to make it s non issue.
They basically took their mild hybrid Advantage A/T and fixed the lack of snow / ice sipping and gave it a more aggressive tread and shoulder.
The Advantage A/T has been really popular I’ve had great results with it on my Subaru and Sequoia. Snow performance is not the greatest hence the superior sipping on the Trail Terrain. Wet road performance on the Advantage A/T’s was actually surprisingly pretty good.

I like that we finally get a tire thats not a full on squishy comfort highway tire and not a full on KO2. I liked my KO2’s but switching back to the hybrid Advantage A/T made long trips far more enjoyable and slightly less abusive at the fuel pump. I think these new Trail Terrains will look decent on my stock 22’s on the Expedition.

I have the BFG Advantage T/A on my girlfriends 13 GMC Terrain Denali AWD and man, are they grippy. Seem like a very good tire. had no problems at all during the New England winters. The vehicle has an excellent ride quality as well. At one point I found myself wondering if they made them big enough for my Sierra 1500.