Pillow talk...oops Pillowtrack

Stumpalump

Expedition Leader
This thread is in the ditch. How many of you have come up with a new innovative idea for any thing related to Expeditions? This guy did. He did all the work and brought it to market. Nice work and hats off! I hope you sell a million!
Lifting a wheel safely to unstuck a rig could cause less damage and may save somebody a hi-lift jack, winch cable or tow strap failure injury. If you just run around in a stock SUV then this may be one piece of equipment that may turn a bad day into a good one. An air bag to lift one tire that you can then drive on. Brilliant!
 

dust devil

Observer
I'm not sure why you think the thread is "in the ditch", which I take to mean that the discussion has somehow gone downhill or turned negative. A free and open debate necessarily requires viewing all perspectives, including those that might, from one point of view, be from another deemed to be negative.

Just as one poster states that a fisherman rarely carries but one lure in his tackle box, as a group we will approach similar tasks differently and with different equipment in hand. If all of us saw off road travel in exactly the same light, we would all be driving identical vehicles with identical equipment on board.

There is nothing wrong that I can see with the execution of the inflatable waffle board. It may, in fact, have application strengths that make it superior under some circumstances to a static device. Whether those strengths are sufficient, and whether the circumstances arise often enough to warrant owning the product would be a personal decision, I would think. Not everyone is going to want this product anymore than everyone carries ladders or mounts a winch.

Nor does driving a standard SUV (versus a built up rig one supposes) have all that much to do with the question. Any vehicle can get stuck or face an obstacle that is more technical than the vehicle can master. More likely, any given vehicle will face an obstacle that is more technical than the driver is prepared to master at the moment. This happens to everyone. Knowing your own limits and those of your particular vehicle are key to safe off road travel.

I personally don't like using ladders as a travel crutch. That is just me. That I have never needed one is not based on my superior driving style, but rather on my unwillingness to put myself and my vehicle into a situation that we can't, together, get in and out of unaided, and for those times when I misjudge myself and my vehicle, experience has taught me that I will be at that moment a bit deeper in trouble than a ladder will correct. Again, that's just me. I rarely if ever travel alone, and again, experience has taught me that it is safer, faster, and easier to take aid from travel companions than try to get into or out of a pickle with tools and traction devices.

Not everyone is going to agree with this perspective, and I don't expect it. My driving style is not for everyone, and there are quite a few persons on this forum who use and prefer ladders of one style or another. For those persons, an inflatable device could present a flexible (no pun intended) alternative to a static board. As such, it might warrant a look.

I would agree, though, that at the price, it would help the decision making process and mitigate the apparent cost to know that they had been tested under real world circumstances by some independent means. We have already learned from the discussion that they don't necessarily work well on slick surfaces. Are there other limitations and caveats that a potential buyer should be aware of? Do we need to watch closely for sharp rocks or cactus spines? Can a spinning tire defeat the material? If a spinning tire makes more traction against the pillow than the pillow makes against the substrate, will it shoot out from under the tire, and if so, what are the risks? If the pillow shifts during use and needs to be deflated, can the valving always be reached safely, or can it become hidden from use? If the vehicle shifts and a hot exhaust tube falls on the pillow, will the pillow melt? At what temperature does the material begin to deform permanently, and can that temperature be achieved in real world use absent inadvertent exhaust contact, i.e., through friction? Should we all rely on our own imaginations to supply answers, or should the purveyor offer test results?

Not everyone is equipped to do testing. The staff at Overland Journal are, and perhaps they could do a bit of testing on this interesting and innovative device, so that those forum members who favor using bridging devices would have a better idea of how the inflatable one works, and whether it will work for them.

Bottom line is that there is no reason to be defensive over "negative" commentary. We don't all see the world the same, and it would be a boring place if we did. If fact, I would posit that it is through open debate that we best gain an overall perspective on any given topic. Far from being harmful or destructive, it is a most constructive process.
 

discodisco

Observer
Thank you for threads like this

I am relatively new to the off-roading/overlanding world, and I have to say thank you to the experienced members who speak up and ask questions. I learn so much from threads like this one where opinions can be voiced and questions can be asked. I think kudos should always go to people who try to innovate, but the innovation shouldn't be blind to the testing. I think that this thread has voiced multiple oppurtunities for pillow track to represent themselves as more then just salesman selling "shamwow". I can see how this product can be extremely useful, but their lack of response or willingness to test, even supervised testing has completely turned me from the product.
Thanks
Mike
----------------------------
2001 Discovery II
-DI CDL
-Hannibal Roof Rack
-2" OME
-Jumbo Cup Holders
- 2 Car Seats
 

Stumpalump

Expedition Leader
I know my trail rig won't have to have this because it's got lockers, rock sliders ,skid plates ,winch, strong bumpers ,two types of jacks ect. I can drag that sucker thou anything with out much harm. A guy with a SUV and nice side steps with plastic bumpers is in a different situation. It would be a huge advantage to be able to lift and clear the door rockers and bumpers to avoid damage. I'd like to have one for my van but it's over the weight limit for this product. As far as the melting point... My bet is it melts just as fast as a tow strap but have you ever seen synthetic winch line melt? It melts and breaks really fast. Pros and cons with everything but I'm just glad new products keep coming out. This drives ingenuity and competition. The winner in the long run is the consumer.
 

muskyman

Explorer
I know my trail rig won't have to have this because it's got lockers, rock sliders ,skid plates ,winch, strong bumpers ,two types of jacks ect. I can drag that sucker thou anything with out much harm. A guy with a SUV and nice side steps with plastic bumpers is in a different situation. It would be a huge advantage to be able to lift and clear the door rockers and bumpers to avoid damage. I'd like to have one for my van but it's over the weight limit for this product. As far as the melting point... My bet is it melts just as fast as a tow strap but have you ever seen synthetic winch line melt? It melts and breaks really fast. Pros and cons with everything but I'm just glad new products keep coming out. This drives ingenuity and competition. The winner in the long run is the consumer.

through anything without harm?...thats a big claim.

The consumer only wins when a finnished quality product comes out.

If the product is only a new idea and not a good new idea that actually does what it was designed for then the consumer loses.

If someone wants to come to a forum and introduce a product for sale they then have to understand that people are going to asj questions and expect answers beyond how they units are intended to be used.

I have recieved a PM from PillowTracks and I am hoping they decide to send a set out for a fair independent test and comparison.
 

michaelgroves

Explorer
Not everyone is equipped to do testing. The staff at Overland Journal are, and perhaps they could do a bit of testing on this interesting and innovative device, so that those forum members who favor using bridging devices would have a better idea of how the inflatable one works, and whether it will work for them.

This is a real problem for manufacturers. It costs a lot of money to provide test equipment, especially for a new start-up company. They need to make sure that whoever tests it has:
  • Expertise - have they got the right vehicles, equipment, terrain, experience etc. to do do justice to the product?
  • Credibility - how much weight does their opinion carry? With whom? What percentage of their target market will see the review and be strongly influenced?
  • Neutrality - are the testers unbiased and seen to be so? Is there a commercial interest? Are they open to new ideas, or defensive about the established ways of doing things?

All that said, it makes a lot of sense for them to find independent reviewers as fast as possible. Like most people on this thread (and board), I'm intrigued by new ideas, but experienced enough to know that for every useful new development, there are many many that look ok on paper, but have fatal flaws.

Personally, I know how useful bridging ladders can be (a winch is no substitute, although there is some functional overlap),and I have also found air jacks to be incredibly effective. So I am open to the possibilty of a combination, but I am a little doubtful about the obvious (and perhaps not so obvious) potential drawbacks.

I'll be watching for a suitable review with interest!
 

Stumpalump

Expedition Leader
through anything without harm?...thats a big claim.

The consumer only wins when a finnished quality product comes out.

If the product is only a new idea and not a good new idea that actually does what it was designed for then the consumer loses.

If someone wants to come to a forum and introduce a product for sale they then have to understand that people are going to asj questions and expect answers beyond how they units are intended to be used.

I have recieved a PM from PillowTracks and I am hoping they decide to send a set out for a fair independent test and comparison.

You can't even quote a post with out changing it to suit your bias. What in the world would make you think this company would trust you for a " fair independent test and comparison." ????
 

muskyman

Explorer
You can't even quote a post with out changing it to suit your bias. What in the world would make you think this company would trust you for a " fair independent test and comparison." ????

I pushed the quote button and your quote came up...what did I change?

I call it like I see it based on my experience off-road, am I always right?...no

I am fair and honest and very straight forward, lots of guys in the land rover community know me and have wheeled with me. they know how I am in person in the shop on the trail and on the internet.

I dont own a site or a magazine so I dont have advertisers or potential ones to look after. I have used and reviewed many products early in thier introductions and provided lots of information back to those companies over the years.

Your Post that I quoted was ripe with ego about how your lockers and driving can take you anywhere. I have all the candy on my truck as well but also understand there are all kinds of places my truck still wont go. I also know that there are places it would but with risk to the trail or my truck and if that spot happens to be far enough away from help I may choose to winch, bridge or bypass because thats what a experienced off road traveler decides to do.

Thom
 

michaelgroves

Explorer
What in the world would make you think this company would trust you for a " fair independent test and comparison." ????


I may choose to winch, bridge or bypass because thats what a experienced off road traveler decides to do.

Thom

That right there is one reason Thom is probably a good candidate for the company to choose as an independent reviewer. He has the experience, equipment, and opportunity to do some really good real-world testing, and put the product in context. (I.e., not just "it's good" or "it's bad", but reporting on what actual problems it can solve, and what problems it can't).

The fact that he doesn't have a magazine or journal is perhaps not ideal, but in some ways, that's not a bad thing for the company - they can publish his report themselves where they choose. And as he says, he has no axe to grind one way or the other, apart from obviously wanting to see a product succeed if it's useful.
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
How many of you have come up with a new innovative idea for any thing related to Expeditions?
Just because someone doesn't decide to market something, doesn't mean they aren't creative. I bet dollars to doughnuts that quite a few people on this forum have come up with innovative ideas for things related to expeditions.

Speaking of expeditions....the places I've seen illustrated, or situations spoken of, where PillowTracks are used don't appear to be expeditions. Most seem like folks taking off cross country ill-prepared except for their PillowTracks.
 

Stumpalump

Expedition Leader
I pushed the quote button and your quote came up...what did I change?
BS You didn't hit the quote button and then you changed what I said. Thats an internet sin and the mods should delete your post, ban you for life and let all the air out of your tires.:sombrero: But seriously if your are going to quote sombody, quote what they wrote and not what you chose to say they said by leaving out words in the middle of their sentance. This isn't Pirate 4x4 and this thread is still in the ditch. Aint the internet great?:victory:
 

muskyman

Explorer
BS You didn't hit the quote button and then you changed what I said. Thats an internet sin and the mods should delete your post, ban you for life and let all the air out of your tires.:sombrero: But seriously if your are going to quote sombody, quote what they wrote and not what you chose to say they said by leaving out words in the middle of their sentance. This isn't Pirate 4x4 and this thread is still in the ditch. Aint the internet great?:victory:

guess I am not following you as I just went back and looked at it again and the quote box is word for word what you posted.

this thread is far from the ditch infact I think its a pretty civil thread except where you are leaving out words from your quote?
 

BIGdaddy

Expedition Leader
Dude, you guys...stop talking to this guy...he's a troll. Just looking for an e-fight. Ignore him like you would a 4 year old's tantrum/antics.

If you keep responding and putting weight into his responses, it'll just get worse.
 

Stumpalump

Expedition Leader
I see what your saying Musky. On post 35 you did use my quote but then restated it different. No biggy but I think both our point is that this is an tool better suited for a stocker like a new suv than a built up rig with skids and recovery gear. It will lift and clear an unprotected body but most built trail rigs have armor to slide on.
 

biglos454

Adventurer
im new to expedition travel but ive been in the off road community for awhile and i agree with you stumpalump. this product has more of a place among less modified rigs. i trust my rocksliders to protect my rockers thru deep holes. this would be pretty helpful for unprotected rockers. and alot more portable than ladders. it would still be nice to see a good independant reveiw on these. i think they have potential in certain areas of offroading.
 

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