Mickldo
Adventurer
Do you reckon it would work though with something that had a stiffer or shorter chassis? Something like the new NPS?
pivoting frames and mounting campers
- Thread starter lehel1
- Start date
Do you reckon it would work though with something that had a stiffer or shorter chassis? Something like the new NPS?
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Maybe, We used to use rubber at the front only but now don't bother. It does work OK but you know what Cape York can be like. Now we build everything for worst case and we don't get into any arguments. Sure the new NPS will be a lot stiffer so it won't be anywhere near as bad as an FG or older NPS. If it's just a trayback I reckon the tray will flex enough anyway. What were we talking about again? It's been a long day.
BTW the new 550 has the same motor as the new NPS as we said but the old one had a big 6 in it didn't it? Imagine the torque too. I'll have to dig up a spec sheet on them and see what is different.
If it was just electronics and a bigger pump it wouldn't be too bad but if it was a different turbo, exhaust , air cleaner, blah, blah, blah, it could get expensive.
Hey, have a look at the MAN we've got for sale on our site too. I'm slowly getting hooked on them. Haven't driven one yet but Paul took a twincab for a drive the other day and said it was just awesome.
BTW the new 550 has the same motor as the new NPS as we said but the old one had a big 6 in it didn't it? Imagine the torque too. I'll have to dig up a spec sheet on them and see what is different.
If it was just electronics and a bigger pump it wouldn't be too bad but if it was a different turbo, exhaust , air cleaner, blah, blah, blah, it could get expensive.
Hey, have a look at the MAN we've got for sale on our site too. I'm slowly getting hooked on them. Haven't driven one yet but Paul took a twincab for a drive the other day and said it was just awesome.
GroupSe7en
Adventurer
Hi guys,
This discussion gets more interesting all the time but I am afraid I'm going to have to leave it all up to you.
We've abandoned our FG design project in favor of something smaller, lighter, and cheaper. We're looking at designing a camper for a VW 16" Syncro Doka. We need a new vehicle for an Iceland trip we're planning and since we travel alone we thought we'd build something small and light enough that we could extract it from the quicksand by ourselves.
The interesting thing about the Syncro Doka is that it has a hugh monocoque and is for all practical purposes a 'rigid' frame.
Something Doug Hackney said about most expeditioning could be done in a Westfalia got me thinking...
Cheers,
Mark
This discussion gets more interesting all the time but I am afraid I'm going to have to leave it all up to you.
We've abandoned our FG design project in favor of something smaller, lighter, and cheaper. We're looking at designing a camper for a VW 16" Syncro Doka. We need a new vehicle for an Iceland trip we're planning and since we travel alone we thought we'd build something small and light enough that we could extract it from the quicksand by ourselves.
The interesting thing about the Syncro Doka is that it has a hugh monocoque and is for all practical purposes a 'rigid' frame.
Something Doug Hackney said about most expeditioning could be done in a Westfalia got me thinking...
Cheers,
Mark
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Syncro Doka
Thanks Chip. You da man.
This is a little OT but,
Mark, My brother and many of my friends are syncro nuts and I've had my fare share of older VW crewcabs and single cabs over the years too. Believe it or not, I've been told that there are only 6 Syncro Dokas here in Oz and 2 of them are here on the Sunshine Coast. However there is only one 16" Doka Syncro in the country so the vehicle you speak of would be seen as an absolute dream truck by many here, me included.
The big 4x4 mag here, 4x4 Monthly did a comparison test back in the early '90s of all the popular big 4x4s, Landcruisers, Patrols, Discos, etc. They took them all on a huge desert crossing that lasted some weeks (and then some on road driving as well) to get an overall perspective on the vehicles and how they performed under the grueling conditions.
At the end of the article, they revealed that in order to do the crossing they needed to carry a lot extra fuel and quite a lot of camping gear that they didn’t want to load into the precious test vehicles. Obvoiously the new test vehicles weren’t fitted with LR tanks and cargo racks. The local VW dealer gave them (you guessed it) a syncro Doka to help out. The reporters claimed that of all the vehicles on the trek, the Doka did everything it was asked to do without complaint and was completely overloaded for the conditions. 44gal. Drums, marquee tent, fridges, blah, blah. They claimed that while it wasn’t part of the official 4x4 comparison, it definitely stole the show.
Later that same year the Doka tied for the title of “Australian 4x4 of the Year”. Why they were never accepted by the general public is surely to do with the stranglehold Toyota and Nissan had on the market at the time and their huge advertising budgets.
IMO it certainly wasn’t logical anyway.
On a serious note, there are some fantastic mods available for them and no end of syncro gurus available online. Most common mods here are BMW brake booster swap, rear discs, EJ22 / 25 Subaru engine and part-time 4x4. I think part time 4x4 may have been an option in Europe but was never offered here and as a result the drivelines tended to get overworked with a lot of road use and hence failed. Well that’s been the case here in Oz anyway.
Mark, we are talking rear engine Syncro, hey? Cause a friend has a newer front engined Syncro Crewcab and it’s not a bad thing either? Much bigger, but certainly not an offroad ego destroyer like the first models.
Sorry for the side track, but yeah, the 16"Syncro Doka is an excellent 2nd choice after an FG.
Thanks Chip. You da man.
This is a little OT but,
Mark, My brother and many of my friends are syncro nuts and I've had my fare share of older VW crewcabs and single cabs over the years too. Believe it or not, I've been told that there are only 6 Syncro Dokas here in Oz and 2 of them are here on the Sunshine Coast. However there is only one 16" Doka Syncro in the country so the vehicle you speak of would be seen as an absolute dream truck by many here, me included.
The big 4x4 mag here, 4x4 Monthly did a comparison test back in the early '90s of all the popular big 4x4s, Landcruisers, Patrols, Discos, etc. They took them all on a huge desert crossing that lasted some weeks (and then some on road driving as well) to get an overall perspective on the vehicles and how they performed under the grueling conditions.
At the end of the article, they revealed that in order to do the crossing they needed to carry a lot extra fuel and quite a lot of camping gear that they didn’t want to load into the precious test vehicles. Obvoiously the new test vehicles weren’t fitted with LR tanks and cargo racks. The local VW dealer gave them (you guessed it) a syncro Doka to help out. The reporters claimed that of all the vehicles on the trek, the Doka did everything it was asked to do without complaint and was completely overloaded for the conditions. 44gal. Drums, marquee tent, fridges, blah, blah. They claimed that while it wasn’t part of the official 4x4 comparison, it definitely stole the show.
Later that same year the Doka tied for the title of “Australian 4x4 of the Year”. Why they were never accepted by the general public is surely to do with the stranglehold Toyota and Nissan had on the market at the time and their huge advertising budgets.
IMO it certainly wasn’t logical anyway.
On a serious note, there are some fantastic mods available for them and no end of syncro gurus available online. Most common mods here are BMW brake booster swap, rear discs, EJ22 / 25 Subaru engine and part-time 4x4. I think part time 4x4 may have been an option in Europe but was never offered here and as a result the drivelines tended to get overworked with a lot of road use and hence failed. Well that’s been the case here in Oz anyway.
Mark, we are talking rear engine Syncro, hey? Cause a friend has a newer front engined Syncro Crewcab and it’s not a bad thing either? Much bigger, but certainly not an offroad ego destroyer like the first models.
Sorry for the side track, but yeah, the 16"Syncro Doka is an excellent 2nd choice after an FG.
GroupSe7en
Adventurer
Thanks John.
I'll start a build thread as soon as we can sell the sailboat and gather some money!
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.....
I'll start a build thread as soon as we can sell the sailboat and gather some money!
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.....
Mickldo
Adventurer
I haven't organised any photos of the NPS build at work yet because I have been slack:Wow1:
I did have another thought for an alternative body mounting though.
What about a system similar to the 3 point system but with several (5 or 6) pivoting mounts and one fixed (rear) mount. It would help spread the load out along a heap of crossmembers along the chassis instead of just three points. The front mount mount could still flex the same amount as the 3 point design but with the extra intermediate mounts they would only flex a proportionate amount.
What would be the drawbacks of this system? The centre of gravity would still be the same as a 3 point system so that would be no worse. Provided all the pivots were kept in line I can't see the twist of the chassis binding up the mounts too much. If that was to be a problem what about having the mounts somehow rubber bushed to give a little flex to the system to stop any binding?
Whad'ya reckon?
I did have another thought for an alternative body mounting though.
What about a system similar to the 3 point system but with several (5 or 6) pivoting mounts and one fixed (rear) mount. It would help spread the load out along a heap of crossmembers along the chassis instead of just three points. The front mount mount could still flex the same amount as the 3 point design but with the extra intermediate mounts they would only flex a proportionate amount.
What would be the drawbacks of this system? The centre of gravity would still be the same as a 3 point system so that would be no worse. Provided all the pivots were kept in line I can't see the twist of the chassis binding up the mounts too much. If that was to be a problem what about having the mounts somehow rubber bushed to give a little flex to the system to stop any binding?
Whad'ya reckon?
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hi Mick,
I really don't know? The problem with the stepped chassis is still that the pivot point at the front (up on the step) moves the longitudinal axis at the front side to side. Maybe on a new NPS it would work, but having a pivot mounting system rigidly mounted at the back may allow too much flex in the body at the front as well.
Ive never seen it done this way but certainly it would spread the load on the chassis far, far better.
I really don't know? The problem with the stepped chassis is still that the pivot point at the front (up on the step) moves the longitudinal axis at the front side to side. Maybe on a new NPS it would work, but having a pivot mounting system rigidly mounted at the back may allow too much flex in the body at the front as well.
Ive never seen it done this way but certainly it would spread the load on the chassis far, far better.
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hey Mick, Some hot goss. The owner of this truck lost it down a muddy bank on the Easter weekend. It went over sideways, hit a rock and landed on its side at the bottom of a rocky gully. He was supposed to be heading off on a trip this week too. He said the cab is a right off but the body is virtually unharmed and all the doors are still perfectly in alignment. The only damage to the body was the rear entry door window got smashed by the rock it was laying on.
It took them from 7:30Am till 4:30 PM to get it out with an big excavator and a drott. Got a feeling we'll be the only one's doing the repair. Will definitely post pics if I can get any. I said he gets serious with it didn't I?
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Mick No. Think I covered this on Page 5 or 6 of this thread. Not a good idea. The cantilever ends up too long. Hey got to dissappear for an hour. C ya.
Mickldo
Adventurer
Hey Mick, Some hot goss. The owner of this truck lost it down a muddy bank on the Easter weekend. It went over sideways, hit a rock and landed on its side at the bottom of a rocky gully. He was supposed to be heading off on a trip this week too. He said the cab is a right off but the body is virtually unharmed and all the doors are still perfectly in alignment. The only damage to the body was the rear entry door window got smashed by the rock it was laying on.
It took them from 7:30Am till 4:30 PM to get it out with an big excavator and a drott. Got a feeling we'll be the only one's doing the repair. Will definitely post pics if I can get any. I said he gets serious with it didn't I?
Ouch. That's gotta hurt.
I went camping at Imbil over Easter and did a bit of 4wdriving up in the hills behind behind Borumba Dam. With all of the rain we got it was bloody slippery up there on the slopes. Had a bit of a butt puckering moment coming down Mt Buggery in the 80. I doesn't surprise me that somebody went over somewhere in those conditions.
C ya.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
It strikes me that a series of shackles, oriented parallel and perpendicular, might offer more uniform load distribution along the frame rails. The key would be the location and orientation of each. The system would still need a firm, pivoting-only anchor somewhere. My first choice for such would be at the mid-span.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
Can you post an illustration or sketch of what you are proposing? I'm not clear on what you mean by shackles.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
Mick,
Look on the first page of this thread and you'll find engineering drawings of the FG frame showing the step down section.
Doug