POD: Homebuilt foam core fiberglass skin pop-up camper build thread

[Heifer Boy]

That's weird?!? I had problems with my desktop connection last night and still today so I wrote the post above on my netbook. On it I couldn't see any line spacing on my post even though they were definitely there in the msg box. Now I am back on my desktop and I can see everything formated correctly!!!

I've just checked the netbook again and there's no line spacing. It must be something to do with the netbook 10" screen size. Not something I've noticed before though. Hmmm

 

[pods8]

All methods are subject to change based on how I like using them.

When you mention the method of wetting out are you talking about wetting the cloth tape on plastic sheeting I was talking about for tape work? If so I've read that laying out your cloth on plastic, pouring on some resin, then laying over another plastic layer and working the resin through the cloth on the outside of the plastic is a nice clean way to do tape work. Wet it out, trim it up to size, carry it over and peel one side, stick it down and work the back side which is covered in plastic. We'll see, I'll adapt as needed.

In regards to the panel work I'm using a fairly heavy cloth 8.6oz/yd so I'm not too worried about having issues working out wrinkles, but we'll see. That said since I'm doing multiple glass layers on each panel surface at once so there is no way I'd be able to just use the dry method and I want them all done together so they are a proper layup. I plan to lay out each layer ahead of time, then roll it up on a piece of PVC pipe and set it to the side. Then when I start laminating hopefully each layer will roll out fairly straight/flat. I'll pour/spread resin around and let things wet out. Then work it flat and get the air out w/o worrying about trying to get the excess resin out yet and move onto the next ply.

For the end I have decided to give peel ply a shot which should help smooth things out, remove excess resin, and address the frayed edge issue (Note that most of my panel edges will be overhung slightly and trimmed, the frayed edge issue is in my cloth seams, where the laminate wraps the top edge of the panels, and tape edges).

One other thing I'll likely try with and without is laying a layer of 4mil plastic sheeting over the top of the wet layup at the end and working out the excess resin through that. Has the potential to be cleaner work at the end and provide an air barrier once the excess resin is worked out and the plastic is suctioned down. We'll see how that goes. I'll have better options after the fact. :coffeedrink:

 

[Heifer Boy]

All methods are subject to change based on how I like using them.

Got to agree there. These builds are certanly evolving things. I haven't finished mine and I'm already building the next one in my head a different way. :drool:

I've read that laying out your cloth on plastic, pouring on some resin, then laying over another plastic layer and working the resin through the cloth on the outside of the plastic is a nice clean way to do tape work. Wet it out, trim it up to size, carry it over and peel one side, stick it down and work the back side which is covered in plastic. We'll see, I'll adapt as needed.

I've never come across that method before and none of the boat building guys mentioned it. I've read about peel ply for sure which you mention and is kind of similar but this sounds good in one way and really messy in another. I would think you would have to wait until the resin gels a bit before cutting. Or do you use scissors coz it's not stuck to the camper yet? I'll be interested to see how you get on.

I'm doing multiple glass layers on each panel surface at once so there is no way I'd be able to just use the dry method and I want them all done together so they are a proper layup. I plan to lay out each layer ahead of time, then roll it up on a piece of PVC pipe and set it to the side. Then when I start laminating hopefully each layer will roll out fairly straight/flat. I'll pour/spread resin around and let things wet out. Then work it flat and get the air out w/o worrying about trying to get the excess resin out yet and move onto the next ply.

Rolling up your layers is a good idea and is used a lot. I had to be really organised and get everthing in place and in order before starting but coz it was so much smaller I just folder my cloth pieces and layed them in order. With all the testing and planning you have done already you sound like your REALLY organised so I'm sure you already have a game plan in your head ready to go :victory:

One other thing I'll likely try with and without is laying a layer of 4mil plastic sheeting over the top of the wet layup at the end and working out the excess resin through that. Has the potential to be cleaner work at the end and provide an air barrier once the excess resin is worked out and the plastic is suctioned down.

Isn't that the same job as using the peel ply?

Good luck with it all and looking forward to the end result.

HB

 

[pods8]

I've never come across that method before and none of the boat building guys mentioned it. I've read about peel ply for sure which you mention and is kind of similar but this sounds good in one way and really messy in another. I would think you would have to wait until the resin gels a bit before cutting. Or do you use scissors coz it's not stuck to the camper yet? I'll be interested to see how you get on.

I've done a fair bit of my reading based on the composite airplane guys verse boat folks. I made a couple test pieces with peel ply and liked it which is why I'm going that route. It's just a thin polyester type cloth that goes on as the last ply and wets out. Treat your layup like it's not there (ie trim up the same as you would have otherwise). Then once things are cured you can just peel the stuff off and you get a smooth but sandpaper feeling surface which is ready for the next bonding stage (whether that is tape work or final fairing) but also had held down frayed edges, etc. in the meantime.

With all the testing and planning you have done already you sound like your REALLY organised so I'm sure you already have a game plan in your head ready to go :victory:

My garage doesn't look it right now. :Wow1:

Isn't that the same job as using the peel ply?

The peel ply wets out. If I use some 4mil plastic sheeting on top it allows you to work out air/resin on the clean side since you're pushing it through the plastic. Additionally once you've pushed an air bubble out the plastic should be suctioned down, hopefully this would mean additional air won't reenter and that perhaps it will fight against wrinkles as you continue to work the rest of the piece.

I should have a better option of it all over the next few weeks. I just have a little bit of sanding to do before breaking things apart and starting to glass.

 

[pods8]

Well an unofficial update (don't have my notes in front of me for hours and no pictures): I finished sanding/fit up and broke the lower core back apart and cleaned up around the garage some. Then I started on my first piece, the floor. I debated whether to start on the floor first since its such a large layup but decided to do so since it's simple geometry, only 2 plys, and it'll have flooring over top of it so its not as visually critical compared to the exterior walls for instance. There is definitely going to be a learning curve here in the various aspects and it was a bit intimidating midway through but things turned out okay all things considered. It definitely wasn't as easy as I though to just layout the plys and roll up the whole deal to set to the side and roll out onto the piece when the time came. Lots of wrinkles to work out, etc. I'm thinking on the next shot to roll up each strip of cloth separately, it'll take a bit more staging organization but hopefully be a bit more manageable. Also I tried working the peel ply flat through a plastic sheet and that was a failed effort, luckily its peel ply and it gets peeled off! Next round I'll just work down the peel ply and probably forget the plastic. It's a learning curve.

Also I had planned on being to the glassing stage quite some time ago when temperatures were cooler so I've got a bit faster working epoxy because it still works at cooler temperatures and had decent working times at those temperatures. Now that things are warming up my working time is in the 1-2hr range which can be a bit challenging on a big layup. I end up needing to make sure I've not left excess epoxy on the layup as I move along because by the time I'm coming around with the next ply it's starting to tack up too much where as if I had more working time I could just leave the excess epoxy sit and let it soak into the next ply I lay down. It is still manageable at this point, if things get hotter I'll need to make sure to try and concentrate on doing things in the early morning on the weekend, etc. If it becomes a big enough issue, esp. when it comes to the roof which will be my largest layup I'll probably pick up some slower set time stuff (I ordered what anticipate to be 2/3-3/4 of my total epoxy need off the bat so its not that big of a deal to pick up some slower stuff where its needed since I'd need some more epoxy anyways).

 

[Rezarf <><]

Wow dude, thats gobs of work right there. I am definately looking forward to your build. Keep it up, it will pay off I am sure!

 

[pods8]

Wow dude, thats gobs of work right there. I am definately looking forward to your build. Keep it up, it will pay off I am sure!

Yeah lots of work. In the mid project trenches I must admit in the back of my mind part of me wonders if having learned to mig weld aluminum for this project would have been a decent route as well? Probably quicker to assemble a frame and skin it, and hard foam could also be glued to the skin in the frame gaps to help support it. However it probably would be heavier, things would have to be much more square verse radius edges, sealing up whatever skin at the joints is a potential leak route/not as clean looking, etc.

In the end assuming all goes well I'm going to be looking forward to the smooth/seamless exterior that should lower leak potential, shed water/snow better (hopefully also reducing algae growth in the nooks/crannies), and ideally look nicer. Plus should have some weight advantages. It's just going to likely take more time to get there.

Anyways onward I trudge documenting this home build. Right now the only "major" tools I'm using is a table saw and somewhat decent sized air compressor. You other potential builders can evaluate your own paths accordingly. :sombrero:

 

[pods8]

Finished off the other side off the floor over the weekend. Things went much smoother this time but it definitely is still time consuming. My floor is ~7'x7.5', I put two plys of cloth on the bottom at +/- 45deg and they wrapped over a radius edge to cover the sides as well. Took about 5.5hrs from start to finish for the 2 plys of glass and a layer of peel ply over top of that (all fabric was previously laid out and cut).

The wall sections are less area to cover but will have a bit more work in wrapping over edges in various spots. I'll be interested to see if I can pick up some speed on them. I've got the fabric cut/staged for two wall pieces but I didn't make any progress beyond that with the holiday weekend.

Here's my finished off floor, I've got plastic on it since I'll be using it as a work surface going forward most likely. The appearance is a bit hazy due to the peel ply, not that I don't have a bit of air here/there, just don't want anyone freaking out thinking that is what you're seeing.

A window into my snug garage workshop setting

Next two pieces set out so I can fit the cloth to them:

Three cloth plys of one of the pieces "staged". (Loosely rolled up the pieces by hand and then placed in some plastic to keep them clean and easier to handle in the meantime. When I'm actually laminating I'll grab the pieces and lay them out and position by hand and work out the wrinkles. I found it easier to just do it this way rather than trying to roll the multiple pieces onto a rod or such).

Cloth stand to spool the glass off, I tossed the dolley carts under there so I can push it around a bit:

Resin, hardener, stir sticks, squeegees, mirco ballons, dried residue (put a layer of plastic down on your bench ), etc. the tools of the trade. I should note for smaller quantities I usually use metering pumps with 8oz and 18oz plastic cups (ie party cups) and just pitch them after use. If I'm mixing up a larger quantities or needing to measure something out differently I'll use the traditional plastic mixing tubs.

 

[pods8]

Update 9 (150hrs in): Getting a into the flow of glassing these panels now. I think I've shaved some time off how long it takes per area but it is still time consuming over all. I'm past the halfway mark and on the down hill side of getting these lower core panels glassed up.

Floor: Both sides glassed.
Front wall: Both sides glassed.
Rear wall: Both sides glassed.
Driver side wall (including cabover rail): Exterior glassed, interior still needs to be glassed.
Cabover Floor: Exterior glassed, interior still needs to be glassed.
Cabover front rail: No progress yet
Passenger side wall front portion (including cabover rail): No progress yet
Passenger side wall rear portion: No progress yet

So the bigger panels / panels with openings in them (takes a little more work to cut and wrap the glass around window opening and such) are almost complete. The final three panels are the smallest and aside from wrapping glass over the door jambs should get ticked off the list fairly easily in comparison.

Shot of the driver side exterior I glassed this weekend (prior to trimming off the excess fabric after it cured a bit).

 

[Billhilly]

Coming along great Pods. Hang in there. Like you say, past half way now. So once you have these panels done it's assemble the lower core then start on the roof section? Anyway you'll see some real progress once you put these panels together for the final time!

Yeah lots of work. In the mid project trenches I must admit in the back of my mind part of me wonders if having learned to mig weld aluminum for this project would have been a decent route as well? Probably quicker to assemble a frame and skin it, and hard foam could also be glued to the skin in the frame gaps to help support it. However it probably would be heavier, things would have to be much more square verse radius edges, sealing up whatever skin at the joints is a potential leak route/not as clean looking, etc.

What do you mean specifically by 'skin it'? Commercial fiberglass sheet or? Glue your own composite panel??

 

[pods8]

Coming along great Pods. Hang in there. Like you say, past half way now. So once you have these panels done it's assemble the lower core then start on the roof section? Anyway you'll see some real progress once you put these panels together for the final time!

Yeah glue/tape these up and then start on the roof. I'll probably build the wood and foam right around the lower core so I know they're fit right (gonna be tight in the garage...). I think the second half should go quicker due to more familiarity and clearer thought on how to assemble various things.

What do you mean specifically by 'skin it'? Commercial fiberglass sheet or? Glue your own composite panel??

Well you could likely skin in either FRP or aluminum. Off hand I'd probably explore FRP with either a vehicle tape or sika type adhesive and see about doing hand laid glass to wrap the corners and then fair that all in. Ideally it would be a mostly seamless skin w/o the trim pieces commonly relied on. However as with this project I'd definitely do some experimental pieces first to make sure the various components worked and what combinations I liked.

I dunno, just an offhand thought to potentially shave quite a few hours?

 

[Billhilly]

Yeah glue/tape these up and then start on the roof. I'll probably build the wood and foam right around the lower core so I know they're fit right (gonna be tight in the garage...). I think the second half should go quicker due to more familiarity and clearer thought on how to assemble various things.

Are you going to use draw runners as guides or go with (something like) polyethylene in the corners? Did you ever finalise a lifting mechanism? I'm getting way ahead for you!

Well you could likely skin in either FRP or aluminum. Off hand I'd probably explore FRP with either a vehicle tape or sika type adhesive and see about doing hand laid glass to wrap the corners and then fair that all in. Ideally it would be a mostly seamless skin w/o the trim pieces commonly relied on. However as with this project I'd definitely do some experimental pieces first to make sure the various components worked and what combinations I liked.

I dunno, just an offhand thought to potentially shave quite a few hours?

I still wonder with how good Sikaflex glues are I couldn't make up a light exo skeleton (I've swung to alloy) and possibly make my own composite panels up.

 

[pods8]

Are you going to use draw runners as guides or go with (something like) polyethylene in the corners? Did you ever finalise a lifting mechanism? I'm getting way ahead for you!

Planning on drawer slides in the overlapping zone. I have provisions to go with either the actuators or hydraulics. I may give the hydraulic company another call to see if we can work something out and for a price I like. Otherwise I know the actuators are readily available and they are the current main plan. I've got some time still.

I still wonder with how good Sikaflex glues are I couldn't make up a light exo skeleton (I've swung to alloy) and possibly make my own composite panels up.

If you're not as concerned about the strength of the panel in terms of load carrying, which you may not be with an exo skeleton, you could look into just gluing commercially available FRP panels onto foam since I assume you're be intending to use square edged stuff as opposed to trying to radius corners, etc.

I pondered them a tad but due to the lower strength and some of the radius work I've decided to do I didn't pursue it further. If I were to build an aluminum frame (internal) I'd think about gluing commercial FRP panels to the frame then bedding foam in the frame gaps against the FRP with an adhesive slurry. Obviously testing would need to be done before going full bore but it's a thought that has crossed my mind as I've been working on things. Don't know where the weight would stack up in comparison in the overall design, probably wouldn't matter much on a larger truck but on a smaller one it could be an issue.

The biggest thing with doing the hand layups is they just take a while between wetting out glass and then dragging air, repeat on the next ply... In the end I'll probably be happier with what I'm doing but you're mind drifts while in the trenches.

 

[pods8]

Update 10 (185hrs) I finished off almost all the panel laminating, I've just got the exterior of the rear portion of the passenger all to do. However that doesn't really affect assembling the rest of the panels back together so I went ahead on that this weekend and will knock out that last panel lamination after work one day this week.

First off I got the floor all leveled out up on some concrete blocks, this will allow me enough access to the under edges to do the taping work. Then I reassembled all the panels with screws to make sure things were fitting up right (they did!) and then undid various joints to apply thickened epoxy and then screwed the joint back together. After wards I ran a thickened epoxy fillet along the inside of the joint. I finished off epoxying all the joints except for the rear wall and the rear portion of the passenger wall which I need to finish off still. From here I'll need to do a "tape" lamination on the inside of the joints and also on the outside (before doing the outside I'll do some more structural filling/sanding/fairing work, best to get it as good as possible at this stage to save hassle later).

Once this is all done I'll move onto building and fitting the roof cores around the lower camper to make sure it all fits. Also I can do parallel path work on portions of the interior and the lower door.

All the tape is on top of peel ply so I didn't bother to peel it all off since it will come off with the peel ply. I'll remove portions of the peel ply as I need to for the taping work and anything else that comes up. The rest stays on until I start the fairing work of the whole thing, makes it nice because I don't need to worry about getting stray epoxy on the surface (which is happening while doing the fillet work) of it since it gets peeled off.

 

[washington taco]

Really coming along nicely!