Power System for Winter Use

[Chuck1]

150A continuous..

$1500 165 amp

Rated Output Power - 2000 RPM Hot	54 Amps
Rated Output Power - 6000 RPM Hot	122 Amps

165 Amp/12 Volt 94 Series Large Frame Alternator | West Marine

Check out our 165 Amp/12 Volt 94 Series Large Frame Alternator and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

604-Series 150 Amp, Dual Foot Alternator | West Marine

Check out our 604-Series 150 Amp, Dual Foot Alternator and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

 

[skyfree]

150A continuous..

$1500 165 amp

Rated Output Power - 2000 RPM Hot	54 Amps
Rated Output Power - 6000 RPM Hot	122 Amps

165 Amp/12 Volt 94 Series Large Frame Alternator | West Marine

Check out our 165 Amp/12 Volt 94 Series Large Frame Alternator and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

604-Series 150 Amp, Dual Foot Alternator | West Marine

Check out our 604-Series 150 Amp, Dual Foot Alternator and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

I guess I need to reset my budget radar.

 

[vtsoundman]

I run a Kisae 1230 DCDC and the Victron 30A Orion DCDC in parallel to the same bank. This will provide up to 60A of current to the bank in the Van. (The Kisae 1250 wasn't available). The Kisae is a fantastic value offering both solar MPPT and alternator charging in the same unit (although not at the same time).

The Victron unit is a disappointment as it does not have a thermal charge coefficient adjustment (necessary for optimal lead acid). It routinely drops out of absorb too early or it stays in absorb far too long.

My 160Ah Gels are limited to 20A of charge current per battery...with 4 in parallel, that means the bank wants no more than 80A continuously total. Discharge is a different sorry (these things are monsters used in EVs)...

I have both the Kisae and Victron on a 15second delay - they will not poweup for at least 15s after the engine is running. This allows the vehicle bus to stabilize. I can also independently control the converters (on/off) to prevent overloading the 250A alternator.

(Yes, it does happen at idle when running max defrost, seat heater, rear heater, rear defrost, etc etc)

Doing it all over again, I'd get two Kisae 30A units and run them in parallel (it does not hurt them...do NOT run the MPPT controllers off the same array).

All of the Aux loads (fridge, lights, small inverter, etc) kick over to the vehicle alternator bus while I'm charging the house aux bank. This decreases charge time significantly and the loads are less likely to 'trick' the DCDC into the wrong mode.

I employ a similar system it the Jeep. Aux battery is charged by CTEK D250S (also a dual MPPT/alternator charger). It is limited to 20A and does a great job from the alternator...but the MPPT charge algorithim is terrible. My Victron 75/20 charger the batteries about 20% faster on average on the occasion I deploy a larger solar array.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[vtsoundman]

I just assume different models and brands work different, good ole RTFM stuff.

Alternators seem to be vastly over rated, a solid 50A+ draw i think will kill the life span on most of them

Instruction Manuals (Older Models)

Battery Chargers Pro Charge Ultra Aquanautic 8-20A PFC Pro Sport 5_5/5 Global Smart Battery Chemistry Module Pro Charge Digital CED - discontinued range Pro Charge International - discontinued range Pro Charge C - discontinued range Alternator to Battery Chargers Pro Alt C (AB1280 + AB12130)...

sterling-power.com

50A draw on an alternator kill the life??? Hmmm - guess it depends on how anemic your alternator is and how the loads are managed. Idle the motor and run every accessory AND expect a big DCDC to run - sure it run the alternator too hard. At highway RPMS, one can expect 30-50% more power than at idle...

No issues with my Jeep or Sprinter running 80% of full rated current at any RPM...a 50A load is no big deal...

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[Chuck1]

Humvee 200a alternator is huge for a reason, yes its 24v

That high end alternator is showing the truth of whats possible, look at boat stuff for facts not made up bull

On a factory alternator i would only have a 25a dc-dc, anything more and i would carry a spare if you get away from auto parts stores.
If you just do a few days a year you might be ok

 

[vtsoundman]

Humvee 200a alternator is huge for a reason, yes its 24v

That high end alternator is showing the truth of whats possible, look at boat stuff for facts not made up bull

On a factory alternator i would only have a 25a dc-dc, anything more and i would carry a spare if you get away from auto parts stores.
If you just do a few days a year you might be ok

View attachment 634376

What vehicle do you have that has such a small alternator? 25A is basically a 1-2 halogen spotties that we all used though the mid/late 90s...

My 07 Jeep has 180A from the factory...my sprinter is a 250A...my 86 'Burb had a 130A unit...the 96 check p/u was 150A or so...

OP - full time AGM in winter? How many days stationary? What are your loads? Batts inside or out? Snow or just cold?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[Buddha.]

Mechman is another maker of high output alternators. The 6 phase technology sounds interesting.

 

[john61ct]

Did not read the thread.

Has anyone mentioned, you must keep the charging C-rate much lower as LFP cells get cold?

And not charge at all when it gets past freezing temps?

Sealed well insulated even heated box may be required in truly arctic conditions.

Or make the bank modular so it's easy to just keep them with you when you leave the vehicle

 

[SteevsyWeevsy92]

What vehicle do you have that has such a small alternator? 25A is basically a 1-2 halogen spotties that we all used though the mid/late 90s...

My 07 Jeep has 180A from the factory...my sprinter is a 250A...my 86 'Burb had a 130A unit...the 96 check p/u was 150A or so...

OP - full time AGM in winter? How many days stationary? What are your loads? Batts inside or out? Snow or just cold?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

full time lithium (300ah) for the house, the starters are AGM. Days stationary really comes down to context and our power capabilities. I wouldn’t say I’m attached to NEEDING to not move the thing for a week or anything like that. Batteries are all inside. Lots and lots of snow, ideally. we will end up in some remote ski area and national forest parking lots where there really isn’t much local driving to do. So the idea is that if we have to fire it up to charge things, or to drive to town for practical reasons, it would be nice to minimize the amount of driving around in circles we’d have to do for a full top off, but driving around in some circles isn’t the end of the world. Realistically any real medium term or longer park up situations, or if we’re getting TRULY remote for an extended period we’d use a generator. Our bank is relatively huge for our power consumption so that we don’t have to worry about being parked for a small chunk of time when solar is basically nil, so the question is mostly about an efficient use of the power our vehicle has available. Anything measured in Kw is probably overkill for our needs and at the moment we’re looking to stick with the alternator we have.

 

[SteevsyWeevsy92]

Did not read the thread.

Has anyone mentioned, you must keep the charging C-rate much lower as LFP cells get cold?

And not charge at all when it gets past freezing temps?

Sealed well insulated even heated box may be required in truly arctic conditions.

Or make the bank modular so it's easy to just keep them with you when you leave the vehicle

the batteries will be inside, which will be heated pretty much full time through the season, because we will be living out of the thing full time. So it should never really approach 32 in there. If it does it means the heater is blown and we’re making a beeline south/down to protect our own skin. A backup heating situation is something we will have for temporary emergencies, we’ll be relying on an espar or propex primarily.

I do like the idea of keeping the bank modular though for unforeseen situations. If we are experiencing a catastrophic issue and need to find other accommodations while we sort it out it would be good to be able to shut the heat off and grab the batteries, so I appreciate the suggestion.

I’ll also have to look up some graphs about c-rate as it pertains to temperature, that is good info to have. Our batteries have protections built in regarding temperature as well so theoretically catastrophe can be avoided, but depending on how much c rate drops at low but above freezing temps, it’ll be good to have safeguards or a plan to mitigate over charging. We don’t plan on giving it the full one 150 it can theoretically take all at once, even in perfect conditions, so there will be a safety margin built in. Thanks!

 

[SteevsyWeevsy92]

Doing it all over again, I'd get two Kisae 30A units and run them in parallel (it does not hurt them...do NOT run the MPPT controllers off the same array).

Thanks for the response. To clarify what you’re saying here, do you mean don’t run the built in Kisae MPPT chargers in the units if you have them in parallel, or do you mean don’t run separate, independent MPPTs within the Kisae array?

 

[OllieChristopher]

Happy New Year all!!

Mechman is another maker of high output alternators. The 6 phase technology sounds interesting.

I'm just getting ready to finish my Mechman install for my dual battery setup. The 6 phase system is basically two 3 phase stators. I'm a big fan of their alternators: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/...l-05-gmc-sierra-with-pics.221460/post-2873458

What's really cool are the hairpin rectangular wires which allow more wire to be stuffed into a smaller chassis. I went conservative with a 250amp (198 amp at idle) alternator. The high output 370 amp ones require a smaller pulley and high RPM to function efficiently. Mine also has twin rectifiers and 12 diodes for reliability and cooling. That is double of the OEM. As most anyone knows diode failures are the most common cause of alternator failures. Once a diode fails you are stuck. With a bad brush I can cut up a penny and stuff it in to get me home.

Pretty impressive alternator for sure!!

Did not read the thread.

Has anyone mentioned, you must keep the charging C-rate much lower as LFP cells get cold?

And not charge at all when it gets past freezing temps?

Sealed well insulated even heated box may be required in truly arctic conditions.

A little trick I have found to warm up frozen LFP batteries is to simply power them up for a minute or so prior to charging them when in freezing temps. Arctic cold I cannot comment on but down to normal freeze it works like a charm with no damage to the battery. I still have the same Earth-X battery going on 9 years now. I run it in very extreme conditions from 10 f freezing to over 110 F. It never fails to fire up my bike. And it gets deeply discharged (with Baja Designs Squadron and cooling fan engine shut off) to the point of "no return" (waiting for BMS to reset) over and over. I use the BMS feature a lot more than I should.

Or make the bank modular so it's easy to just keep them with you when you leave the vehicle

I really like the idea of modular. That's why I'm of the opinion of having small gas inverter generator as a supplementary power supply. I just don't see a "solar generator" power bank as a reliable and ready anytime power source. Once it drains you have to have something to charge it or some other form of power. Of course solar generator technology is moving at an alarming pace and the efficiency is getting better all the time.

 

[john61ct]

Solar generator is a hateful deceptive marketing BS term.

It's a battery in a box with a collection of included bits and pieces

usually not including the solar ones.

Powerpack is the term I'd encourage.

Have yet to see one I'd consider good value.

______
As to charging in cold weather, you do what you like, but the issue is rarely

instantly rendering the bank scrap although that can happen

or "damage" noticeable in just a few years,

but reduction of cycle lifetime off the back end.

I believe 8-10,000 cycles is achievable with proper care

Many might be OK with only getting 2-3000, result of what I consider "abusive" care.

 

[john61ct]

I’ll also have to look up some graphs about c-rate as it pertains to temperature, that is good info to have.

Good luck, if you find those for LFP let me know!

My inferences, perhaps too conservative for many:

Baseline for temperate area summer "T-shirt weather" 0.4C

Hotter beach weather, maybe 0.6C

Faster only if cells purposefully pre-heated, up to say 45°C for an EV racing context, stay below 40° for longevity

Near freezing temps, I'd stay well under 0.05C, or pre-warm the bank.

Not just by discharging, any heat internally generated is by definition harming longevity!

In an EV context, might be inevitable, but

back to "normal" House bank use, getting cooler

25° should be fine for 0.2-0.3C

below 15°C my limit reco is maybe 0.2C

I'd start pre-warming below 10° if going over 0.1C

 

[john61ct]

Oh, and there are "drop in" batteries (not reco) that are wired with heating elements within the enclosure, thermostatic controls built in.