QUEST: Find an Eco-Overlander Vehicle

[wd40]

Hey, Guys!

Diesel always gets my vote... Too many heavy metals, composites, and complicated works in the hybrids. Like that's good for the environment.

Too bad there is limited access to decent diesels in the US. All we have access to is the 25+ year old rusted hulks from the rest of the world. Decent Rovers and Toyotas can be had from the Middle East and Australia. They're starting to understand what they're worth to us, too.

My daily driver is a VW TDI that sips 46mpg. I went for a 1982 Toyota HJ47 and imported it from Australia. It has the Toyota 2H straight 6 diesel engine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/warfin/Misc/IMG_0767.jpg
It's rediculously simple and burned less than half a tank getting 26mpg round trip from Phoenix to Tucson... With 2 kayaks strapped to the roof for half the trip! It's as aerodynamic as the proverbial brick crapper and will never have the trappings of modern life, like airbags. I'm not too worried about that because the big 'roo bar scares the hell out of anyone near me. It was used as an ambulance in a copper mine, and still has the original '80's Boogie Nights paint job and pin striping (Where's my Members Only jacket???). I'm convinced with 3.70 gears and/or a H55 5-speed this thing will easily break the 30mpg barrier... Or at least break the speed limit... Throw in readily available FJ40 disc brakes, lockers, suspension, better seats, and upgraded A/C and it'll go anywhere.

The downside... Engine parts are interesting to scavenge, I have to do most of my own engine work (it's a very simple engine, though), and I have to go through restaurant drive-thru's in reverse...

If I didn't go the 2H route, I'd consider a later BJ42 with a 3B engine and throw a turbo on it.

I'll bring it round next time I take it to Tucson

 

[mike h]

We use a Ford Escape Hybrid as our primary campus parking enforcement vehicle, and the gas mileage sucks... as in low teens. We attribute it to the fact that the speeds never exceed 25 mph, so the electric motor never gets to do its stuff - forcing the truck to rely mostly on gasoline. So I would suspect, in 4wd, on trails, the same thing would be an issue. We need 4wd for winter, even in parking lot situations, and the officers prefer the higher sightlines of an SUV to scan parking lots. We wanted to be PC, but in hindsight we get worse mileage than a non-hybrid since we drive it so slowly.


Bruce Elfstrom has a very capable eco-rig project in the works:

http://www.overlandexperts.com/bj75biodieseloffroadtruck.html

m.

 

[Maddmatt]

We use a Ford Escape Hybrid as our primary campus parking enforcement vehicle, and the gas mileage sucks... as in low teens. We attribute it to the fact that the speeds never exceed 25 mph, so the electric motor never gets to do its stuff - forcing the truck to rely mostly on gasoline. So I would suspect, in 4wd, on trails, the same thing would be an issue. We need 4wd for winter, even in parking lot situations, and the officers prefer the higher sightlines of an SUV to scan parking lots. We wanted to be PC, but in hindsight we get worse mileage than a non-hybrid since we drive it so slowly.


m.

Sorry to hi-jack, but I guess I misunderstood how hybrids work. I would have thought that lots of slow speed driving, and repeated brake application, would have boosted a hybrid's mileage through the roof! That's disheartening to hear that real world mileage has been so poor for you.

 

[DesertRose]

Hey, Guys!

Diesel always gets my vote... Too many heavy metals, composites, and complicated works in the hybrids. Like that's good for the environment.

Too bad there is limited access to decent diesels in the US. All we have access to is the 25+ year old rusted hulks from the rest of the world. Decent Rovers and Toyotas can be had from the Middle East and Australia. They're starting to understand what they're worth to us, too.

My daily driver is a VW TDI that sips 46mpg. I went for a 1982 Toyota HJ47 and imported it from Australia. It has the Toyota 2H straight 6 diesel engine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/warfin/Misc/IMG_0767.jpg
It's rediculously simple and burned less than half a tank getting 26mpg round trip from Phoenix to Tucson... With 2 kayaks strapped to the roof for half the trip! It's as aerodynamic as the proverbial brick crapper and will never have the trappings of modern life, like airbags. I'm not too worried about that because the big 'roo bar scares the hell out of anyone near me. It was used as an ambulance in a copper mine, and still has the original '80's Boogie Nights paint job and pin striping (Where's my Members Only jacket???). I'm convinced with 3.70 gears and/or a H55 5-speed this thing will easily break the 30mpg barrier... Or at least break the speed limit... Throw in readily available FJ40 disc brakes, lockers, suspension, better seats, and upgraded A/C and it'll go anywhere.

The downside... Engine parts are interesting to scavenge, I have to do most of my own engine work (it's a very simple engine, though), and I have to go through restaurant drive-thru's in reverse...

If I didn't go the 2H route, I'd consider a later BJ42 with a 3B engine and throw a turbo on it.

I'll bring it round next time I take it to Tucson

Welcome, WD40! Hey, I bet I know where those kayaks in Tucson came from :sombrero:

Who did you use to import the HJ47? I am seriously considering that route, too - but a slightly more comfy model (we already have 2 of the "I'm pedalling as fast as I can" on the highway Cruiser and Rover).

Have you looked into alternative fuels? The GoldenFuels SVO system is interesting in that you don't have to refine your own fuel, it burns in situ - foraging for used oil from fast-food joints would be interesting for sure!

Can't wait to see that amazing JH!

(I'm still laughing over the drive-thru-backwards crack - we should do that and videotape it! We can bring Grendel and all do it!)

 

[DesertRose]

I wanted to share this post/discussion that ended up in the "Can I be an environmentalist" thread in Conservation - it's apropos here:

I'm going to say this. Unless your current engine is unreliable, then I wouldn't even consider a swap right now. Run it until it is no longer reliable and maximize the service life of the equipment.

If the vehicle is still serviceable at the end of the engine life, then by all means, consider a re-power. What better way to recycle a whole vehicle???

Great point - But I have a Tacoma, I'll be an old lady before it dies :sombrero:

No, I'm sorry to be flippant. I have considered all that indeed. But would I be neutral-consumption if I sell the 2000 Taco and buy a 1998 RAV4 and then drive it til it's pooped, then put a Toyota diesel in it? The Taco will still be servicable for someone for a long time, as would the RAV4, for me.

And living a lie but writing a fat check to the environmental lobby complex does NOT make you an environmentalist.

I'm struggling with this topic as "carbon credit trading" is gaining steam in the Third World. I hate the fact a polluter can buy a free pass - but then again, if the money is used to support significant assistance to quality of life in a country that has no means - is that bad?

Not only that, but look at the big picture. Do you waste in other ways you could reduce???

I can only speak for myself: I work at home, we live in a solar powered home that is tiny, we are building a bigger house with 60% recycled material (rastra block), we have our own well, we don't buy hardly any packaged food, I buy local meat and produce when possible, and re-use and recycle almost everything I can. In my consumer lifetime (I'm 42) I've bought 2 new cars (both Toyotas) and both are still on the road (current one is my Taco). I consider my personal footprint pretty small.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

and I have to go through restaurant drive-thru's in reverse...

Oh God, I'd love to see the looks on the drive-thru kids' faces . . .

Back to my nomination: If a 2H (non-turbo straight-six) can get 26mpg in an HJ, I think it could do 30 in an FJ60, which already has 3.70 gears. Add a five-speed and who knows? There are also more modern diesel engines available from overseas Toyotas.

A diesel FJ60: quiet helical transfer-case gears, low wind noise, huge cargo capacity, room for a 40-gallon fuel tank, Toyota reliability, and 30mpg. Ready for Arizona, Labrador, or the Sahara. Why is Roseann even considering anything else?

 

[66Landy]

Sorry for the unintentional tease!

200097870044 is the ebay auction number. It is an '84 Land Cruiser with a diesel already installed. I don't know the auctioner or the quality, and only post it here as a "look what I saw" reference. It may however, solve most of your problems, and it is just over $12,000, which if I recall, is your goal, right?

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...xrecordsreturnedZ300QQfviZ1&item=200097870044

 

[Robthebrit]

If you are going to make bio diesel yourself the chances of recovering costs are very good, I have made a few batches of bio for 50c a gallon but I have to make a really big batch. You also get better mileage on bio than regular diesel and this is especially true when compared to the new ultra low sulphur diesel. Something that gets 26-27mpg on ULSD may well get 30mpg on bio.

In general for an eco vehicle, is target milage the best way to look at the problem? Is the carbon footprint a better way to look at things? If you make your own fuel the carbon foot print is better and the emmisions are better than dino diesel and therefore does it matter as much about mpg?

The efficiency of a diesel is more related to how you drive it. Ideally you want to drive at peak torque which for my cummins is 1700rpm which puts me at a comortable 62mph. The same theory applies in a gas engine but the peak torque is so high that when driving at it your speed is also high and therefore air resistance fouls things up (high rpm and high torque mean high power). In my dodge, driving at 62mph speed gives around 25mpg on regular freeways, mountain roads will drop it lower, if I drive at 70mph on the freeway I am down to 21, 75 down to 18. The lower milage is due to the reduction is torque and the increased air resistance.

You should look at the engine characteristics and consider how you drive and what speed you drive at. If you perform a diesel swap but then have to go everywhere at redline because of the lower rpm in the diesel you will not see the higher mpg, my little mog gets better milage around town than it does on the freeway for this very reason. You also have to question how reliable are none industrial diesel engines when sitting on the limiter for hours and hours.

Nothing more than my ramblings...

Rob

 

[Christian P.]

200097870044 is the ebay auction number. It is an '84 Land Cruiser with a diesel already installed. I don't know the auctioner or the quality, and only post it here as a "look what I saw" reference. It may however, solve most of your problems, and it is just over $12,000, which if I recall, is your goal, right?

this one looks really clean - especially for a Land Cruiser from Quebec (where I am from...) .

But I had one of these before. Don't even think about it unless you live in Texas and don't want to drive over 55 mph. The performance of the BJ60 with a 4 cylinder is probably closer to a John Deer tractor than anything else.

If you have to have one, get a BJ60 1986+ with the 6 cylinder and 5 speed. I believe it's the 2H with H55F tranny, the same thing as my TroopCarrier. It's not a race car, but it's decent if you're not in a hurry.

 

[Christian P.]

what about a Jeep Liberty CRD? it has all of your criteria, except the price...but you can finance the balance for cheap, and I don't think they depreciate much.

I have not made the calculations, but you would probably save enough on fuel to cover the interest and portion of the monthly payment if you drive a lot.


Christian
www.2aroundtheworld.com

 

[wd40]

Who did you use to import the HJ47? I am seriously considering that route, too - but a slightly more comfy model (we already have 2 of the "I'm pedalling as fast as I can" on the highway Cruiser and Rover).

Have you looked into alternative fuels? The GoldenFuels SVO system is interesting in that you don't have to refine your own fuel, it burns in situ - foraging for used oil from fast-food joints would be interesting for sure!

Can't wait to see that amazing JH!

(I'm still laughing over the drive-thru-backwards crack - we should do that and videotape it! We can bring Grendel and all do it!)

I'll dig up and pass along the info of the guy I used for the HJ47.

The HJ47's were discontinued in '84, and replaced by more comfortable later series troopies. Those won't be legally importable into the US for a couple more years. The importer indicated that the US rule was recently changed to 21 years from 25. I checked with Arizona, and they are still holding fast at 25 years.

I've looked at a variety of the WVO systems for the troopie. There is a ton of space for it and it would be an easy install. Plus, I may add an old diesel Mercedes to the fleet at some point. The most difficult part of WVO is filtration and and water separation. Get the bits of fry and chicken wing out...

When I had to take the troopie for emissions testing, thay have one of those gates where you push the button, take the ticket, and the gate goes up. They gate kept coming down before I could get back in the truck and drive through. I was getting ready to turn around and back in, when someone came to push the button for me.

BTW, this thing passed with an opacity rating less than 5%, which is 1/6th the limit for its age. I run biodiesel in it most of the time right now.

 

[wd40]

Oh God, I'd love to see the looks on the drive-thru kids' faces . . .

Back to my nomination: If a 2H (non-turbo straight-six) can get 26mpg in an HJ, I think it could do 30 in an FJ60, which already has 3.70 gears. Add a five-speed and who knows? There are also more modern diesel engines available from overseas Toyotas.

A diesel FJ60: quiet helical transfer-case gears, low wind noise, huge cargo capacity, room for a 40-gallon fuel tank, Toyota reliability, and 30mpg. Ready for Arizona, Labrador, or the Sahara. Why is Roseann even considering anything else?

Hey, Jonathan, As you know, the FJ60's can be found around here on the cheap. I saw one a couple months ago on Craigslist for $1500. Body was straight but the engine was fried... Perfect swap candidate... It's my understanding that the 2H and the F have the same output shaft and mate up to the transfercase and H55 without much issue. Just need the engine and mounts. I believe the B engines have a different output shaft, so there would be some changes if you went that route. There are a number of importers bringing in decent, later Toyota diesels, and they already have turbos.

I still prefer the simplicity of the 2H without all of the electronic stuff. My troopie came with a hand crank... No kidding...

 

[ChuckB]

I'll dig up and pass along the info of the guy I used for the HJ47.

I would be interested in this info as well!!

 

[wd40]

what about a Jeep Liberty CRD?

I looked at the Liberty and really wanted to give it a chance... I don't think Chrysler really committed to the platform. They used an Italian CRD rather than implementing one of their nice Mercedes diesel engines. The tuning was horrible... They have no scoot for passing on the freeway and the fuel economy is not that great...

I wish Chrysler or an aftermarket company would add a 4x4 kit to the Sprinter. You'd have some peoples attention then!