Question about hydraulic systems on a series IIa

[Wander]

I've spotted a 66 series IIa that looks promising however one of the bigger areas of attention is that the hydraulic system will need a rebuild as someone put the wrong fluid while doing a clutch rebuild. I am not a LR owner (yet) so I may be asking the wrong questions but, is there an alternative to the system on the series IIa that might be a better fix? The seller/shop has quoted about $2k for a full rebuild, is this in line? I'd rather do the work myself but I'd also like to be able to drive it home so it might be better to have the work completed before I get it (if I get I should say). I guess this is a common problem as this source has four Rovers with the same problem.

I am also wondering if this is a sign that I should flee from this rover as if my head was on fire or is it something that should not exclude it.

I found out the Rover is owned by a priest which I found amusing as it is very similar to the infamous "antichrist" from The Gods Must Be Crazy which was also owned by the missionary minster character in the movie.

 

[WoldD90]

I am not an expert on Series trucks, but I would recommend that you bring the truck to another shop that can give you a second opinion.

It is not hard to amass a 2K bill on an old Rover, but I would not think that all the parts would need to be replaced.

 

[greenmeanie]

Buy the green bible and figure out if it is something you can do yourself. Its a worthwhile investment as you'll use it a lot. Seal kits and parts are fairly cheap if you shop around.

If the fluid in the reservoir is black then you have an incompatible fluid/seal problem. If it is just honey coloured and leaking then you just have a worn seal problem. The 66 IIA should have a common reservoir for the brakes and the clutch so if incompatible fluid has been used you'll need to replace the seals in both systems which is a bigger task. Find out if it is single circuit or dual circuit. Upgrades to series brakes would be to put in a dual circuit master with servo assist from a SIII, 6cyl 109 bigger drum brakes or an aftermarket disc conversion.

Replacing the clutch hydraulics is relatively simple. The slave is just a matter of standing on your head in the engine bay. Conventional wisdom is that repalcing the master is best done by pulling the wing off for access (Not hard) after which it is again pretty simple. If you are doing the other parts I'd also put a new flexible hose on there.

 

[kellymoe]

When I had my IIa I rebuilt the hydraulics or at least replaced all the seals, it was a pretty easy job and I was not that mechanically inclined at the time and am just a bit better now. As greenmeanie said, buy the bible, I kept mine in the truck at all times and it came in handy on a few occasions while out in the middle of the middle of nowhere.

Go for the purchase, old series rovers are great trucks, simple and tough. If you were looking at a newer disco or range rover I would say run. I ended up with a early model defender with a carburated V8, the best of both worlds IMO, coil sprung and an easy engine to work on if the need arises.

 

[Antichrist]

Assuming the hard lines are ok and not rusted through I'd just buy new 4 new wheel cylinders (6 if it's a 109), new brake and clutch masters, clutch slave and the 3 flex lines for the brakes and 1 for the clutch.
Starting out with "fresh" parts you can then maintain it properly (i.e., flush the systems on the correct schedule) and you can be comfortable that if you do devlope any leaks in the coming years kits will do the job.
Of course you may need new brake shoes as well.

 

[Alaska Mike]

The price really depends on how deep they're talking about going. Looking at the bare minimum I would replace would add up to about $800 in parts alone. I usually replace slave and master cylinders instead of rebuilding them (most garages do the same), which adds more than a little to the cost. From there, you would also have machining costs (resurfacing or outright replacing the drums) and a decent amount of labor involved. $1000-$1200 of labor? Sounds a little excessive to me. Even doing a very careful job, I can't imagine spending 12+ hours on those tasks.

If you don't do your own work, don't want to learn, don't have the time, and/or are concerned about trivial things like repair bills, I would suggest re-evaluating your desire for a Series Land Rover. The newest NAS Series trucks are over 35 years old, and they require constant upkeep to be safe on the road. While the vast majority of parts are still available, they will nickle and dime you to death. It's not a weakness of the design- it's a question of age. Every vehicle of that vintage takes some work.

There are more than a few professionally restored Rovers running around for sale, and would somewhat decrease the repair bills. You'd still have to keep up a pretty comprehensive periodic maintenance schedule, but you'd probably would have fewer worries about what will fall off next.

Just some thoughts from someone who is waaaaayyyy too deep into a "cheap" Series Rover.

 

[Wander]

Thanks- this is great. I am going to look at the rover in person before buying but I feel the shop owner is being very honest about every issue. There are two possibilities the 66 I mentioned and a 67 that the shop owner felt was a more solid buy. The 67 also has the fluid problem so either will require the rebuild. Thanks also for explaining that the brakes/clutch share a resevoir, I was trying to figure out why if the wrong fluid was put in during a clutch rebuild that it would effect the brakes-mystery solved!

The 67 was a RHD but converted to LHD professionally and a series III dash and single wiper motor was put in at the same time. It also has overdrive and freewheeling hubs which I guess would make transporting easier but it has some rust on the rear cross member which the 66 does not-but it does have a bad spot on the D/S foot panel that will need to be cut out and new metal welded in which is an issue for me as I don't weld nor do I have the equipment. I'd like to learn but that might prove a very expensive lesson if I mess it up.

Thanks Mike, I am actually looking for a project to be able to work and I am mechanically inclined but I do want to find the best candidate I can to limit how much I am going to have to do just to be able to drive it around the block. Having something to work on fairly regularly does appeal to me and the simplicity of the Land Rover series trucks is appealing as it can be done in your garage. I am under no illusion that these are reliable trucks-it's British after all but from what I have read here and elsewhere there isn't anything impossible on these trucks. My duaghter is nearing her teen years-I need something that I can use as an excuse to go hide!

 

[Antichrist]

If you're not in a rush, you can save a fair bit ordering the parts from the UK. For instance, £25 for the master cyl vs. $135 here in the US.
Drum work may or may not be needed, but it's good to at least factor it in as an expected cost. If it's not needed it's probably because the hub seals have let gear lube all over the insides, which would mean you would need new brake shoes. Some $$ can be saved by relining the shoes, if they are the riveted type vs bonded.

 

[Alaska Mike]

If at all possible, see if you can find a Series Rover guy to take a look at any Rover you are looking at. They will be able to check any common problem areas and know if any questionable work has been done. Things that your average garage might not notice.

Chassis work can be a major undertaking, as can bulkhead work. Sometimes what you can't see is much scarier than what you can see. I have three bulkheads in my garage, all with serious cancer in various spots. Two of them can't be salvaged. My old frame was joined together in various points by rust molecules holding hands. Nothing I would have wanted to put my kids in, and nothing that was on- or off-road worthy. The more you un-bolt from a frame, the more little pieces and parts you'll need to replace. Just the way it goes. Fasteners, seals, little hidden things that you never knew existed... they were likely last touched when the vehicle was built and if the frame is bad, they will likely be bad as well.

I'll give you the same advice I got: With any major Rover project, develop a budget that encompasses every possible expenditure. Add 50% for unforseen issues. Then double the total. Then forget you ever had a budget and just max out your credit cards. Sell a kid or two into slavery. That will be a ballpark figure to work with.

 

[greenmeanie]

If you are a wrench but not a fabricator I would question the advice that you are being given on these trucks. There are many factors to consider but a search on the RN board will bring up some good threads on buying a series.

As always post pictures of the candidates and you'll get a lot of experienced eyes giving you advice.

I'd also look very closely at those leaks to examine the real cause as it sounds a bit like a 'standard' diagnosis for hydraulic leaks. In the long run it is a good idea to rebuild your brakes and clutch on a truck that old as it will improve reliability as Tom states. Unless they can show you black fluid I would be sceptical about spending $2K for a shop to rebuild right now when it may only be a slave replacement required.

I happen to know of a shop in Tucson that regularly diagnoses a worn dizzy with replacement at an exorbitant price rather than actually set the timing.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Good point about the RN board, and by all means seek out internet wisdom on buying a Series Rover. You'll avoid learning all sorts of things the hard and expensive way. Someone has already had that experience, so learn from their mistakes.

If I bought it the one with brake/clutch issues, I would flush the systems with the proper fluid, clean the drums and backing plates, and then check periodically for leaks. Then all you would be out was a little hydraulic fluid.

 

[Wander]

I'll check out the RN board ( is RN an abbreviation for Rovers North?) and I will see if I can pull some pics to share. The shop I found these appears to be a reputable place and has a lot of favorable postings-one customer even did a you tube documentry for them to tell the world about the place. I also got that feeling from the owner in that he mentioned not selling me something I wasn't ready for and that he'd rather I waited for the right one rather than he selling me something that will leave a bad impression. His business is service and restoration, the trucks he has for sale are from customers selling one to fund a new project or just getting out. I'd list the shops name but I don't know if that is OK here. It's one of two well known Land Rover specialists in the Asheville area-how's that for vague:costumed-smiley-007

In looking at the e-mail I got from the owner this morning I now see that he was describing a different 66 IIa (he has two) so it is very possible the one I spotted does not have the hydraulic fluid issue. I have sent him a message for clarification.

 

[James86004]

I happen to know of a shop in Tucson that regularly diagnoses a worn dizzy with replacement at an exorbitant price rather than actually set the timing.

That shop wouldn't happen to be located on Stone Ave, would it?

 

[greenmeanie]

That shop wouldn't happen to be located on Stone Ave, would it?

Yup got it in one.

I was new in the US, waiting on my tools to come from the UK and thought I'd splurge on getting my new truck a tune up for emissions . They didn't like it when I took the truck back as I knew that was not the problem and told them why.

After that I got to know Ernie over on Wetmore. Rover's are not something he does but he really helped out when I first brought my 101 over.

 

[stevenmd]

http://www.rovahfarm.com/ is a pretty decent place to get parts from. I have had great service and prices from Trevor. I re-did my brake system for a heck of a lot less than what you were quoted, and I spent way less than $500 in parts.