Questions for the Suburban/Yukon XL owners out there...

[NevadaLover]

Martinjmpr,
That seems like an unnecessary excess. Reaching out to the Ford community, is there also such a variety of options for Fords trucks? Or is this just GMs way of slapping whatever they can get into the trucks to keep the assembly line rolling?

One thing to remember is that list shows all the t-cases used by GM over the ENTIRE lineup, from the littlest awd to the biggest HD, if you are looking at 1500-3500 series they really only used about 4 different cases, so don't be fooled by the list you put up!

 

[Hillbilly Heaven]

Having spent my lifetime working for an OEM supplier I can tell you it is a madhouse. We manufactured engine and drivetrain parts in the 10s of thousands a day. With on time deliveries and no more than a day's worth in warehousing on either end the schedule is always tough.

If we had experienced a fire like the dash supplier Ford say in our heat treat line, we would have had to shift that process to another plant. That would have meant time transfering parts between the two plants, plus having to test and qualify the process in the other plant. I would say probably at least a week or more delay before parts would be rolling out again. Plus we would have to schedule our parts into an already tight schedule at the other plant.

If the delay occurred during machining or assembly then there would be no other plant alternative as those processes are specialized to the part being made. Delays would have been huge and costly. OEMs do have to pay penalties to the customer for down time caused by OEMs.

 

[mnwanders]

Alright everyone, I thought I'd give a little update since I haven't let this go yet (I've actually been a little obsessive). I have test driven a few 04-06 Suburbans here locally in MN and I have been scouring the internet for good deals in the Southwest to avoid the Midwestern rust-buckets. I'm currently dealing with a dealership on an 05 z71 for relatively low miles. I am probably going to make an offer after I pay for a mechanic to inspect it. Do you have any recommendations as to things I should ask the mechanic to check on?

After all your feedback I thought I'd offer some thoughts as to how I got to this decision. For starters, I really REALLY want that extra foot of cargo space, and I want to get second row captains chairs which I currently do not have in my Sequoia. From what I understand, converting back and forth between bench seats and captains chairs in a Suburban is pretty easy, while it is not easy in a Sequoia. But to be honest, I've been wavering on this decision because I really don't like how the Suburbans drive compared to my Sequoia. Maybe I will get used to it after a while, and maybe it is just the junky midwestern versions I've driven, but the vehicle feels kind of sloppy and wagon-like compared to my Sequoia. The steering is loose, the third row space is actually tighter than my Sequoia, I feel like I sit lower in the Sub, and the 5.3L is not as powerful as what I hoped. My 240hp 4.7L seems like it does just fine in comparison. I will say that I was surprised by how tight it turns for that extra twelve inches in wheelbase though. But it is really hard to make a decision when I get only a few minutes in a Suburban and I've driven my Sequoia across the country a couple of times now. But I also realized that I'm getting close to bumping up against my 1300 payload in the Sequoia, and that 1700 Suburban payload is attractive.

So I decided that the only way to know which one I like better is to have both. I'm selling the minivan and I intend to keep my Sequoia. I figure if I don't like it, I can sell it up here in MN and not lose much since it will have spent most of its life in the SW. I'll keep you posted...

 

[plumber mike]

I'm finally planning to sell my 01 Yukon 2500 with the 8.1. It's been a great truck, but I just bought a new Ram and am struggling to justify keeping both. The last time I felt this way was when I sold my 1990 2500 Suburban with a manual transmission. I still miss it and know I will miss the more comfortable Yukon too.

 

[rayra]

It's a lot more than a foot larger cargo space. The Sub is ~22" longer overall than the Tahoe. The cargo area behind the 2nd seat is more like 67", vs the 48" of the Tahoe. Call it 19" more, x4'W, x~3' tall, call it 19cu' more cargo space behind the 2nd row, in the Sub. ~48cu' for the Tahoe, ~69cu' for the Sub. Call it 50% more in the Sub. A Sequoia has 27cu'? behind the 2nd row?
And it's a legit 98" between the front seats and the liftgate in a Suburban. You can haul 4'x8' sheet goods in a Sub, hatch closed. And 12' trim mouldings, tucked into the front footwell.
And for the added 12" in wheelbase on the Sub you get 2nd row windows that actually go all the way down, instead of only 6-7" of the Tahoe, because of the Tahoe's notched door design for its shorter wheelbase.

We still have both our '02 Sub and an '05 Tahoe. 'His and Hers'. Started with a new '99 Tahoe, loved it, drove it (~120k mi) until we got the new '05 which is now about to turn 200k mi. Bought the '02 Sub in 2014 as my project vehicle, with ~114k on it, I've only put about 25k on it since. Still have my '85 C-10, my daily driver for 28yrs, put ~350k on it. Its wheelbase and OAL are almost identical to a Suburban, so it was really no difference in handling to switch to a Sub.

 

[XJLI]

Drive a GMT900 (07-13) 'Burb. They moved to rack and pinion steering and coil front end, much different animal than the torsion bar GMT800s.

I REALLY like the first gen Sequoia. I'd like to pick up a low mileage 06-07 from out west or down south in a year or two if they still exist.

 

[mnwanders]

It's a lot more than a foot larger cargo space. The Sub is ~22" longer overall than the Tahoe. The cargo area behind the 2nd seat is more like 67", vs the 48" of the Tahoe. Call it 19" more, x4'W, x~3' tall, call it 19cu' more cargo space behind the 2nd row, in the Sub. ~48cu' for the Tahoe, ~69cu' for the Sub. Call it 50% more in the Sub. A Sequoia has 27cu'? behind the 2nd row?
And it's a legit 98" between the front seats and the liftgate in a Suburban. You can haul 4'x8' sheet goods in a Sub, hatch closed. And 12' trim mouldings, tucked into the front footwell.

I don't know where you are getting your figures, and I'm not comparing my space to a Tahoe, I'm comparing the Suburban space to a Sequoia. The Suburban has 10" extra over the Sequoia from the back of the front row to the rear lift gate. That's it. It isn't much, but I want it. I'm not trying to bag on the Suburban, I'm trying to convince myself to buy one.

05 Denali with a 6.0 engine or a later model with the ls 6.2l.. or add a supercharger to the 5.3... all are game changers. .. My experience is you sit very high in a sequoia.. I feel odd in it.. coming from a Yukon XL..

My friend has the 06 Yukon XL Denali and I have. 2012... My steering felt tighter.. and after that, I added helwig sway bars.. helped a lot..

As for a minivan.. if they took a minivan body and put it on a 1500 or 2500 truck frame... Ultimate vehicle.. nothing is more practical than a minivan layout in form and function

A minivan is a like a 22lr rifle... It's is so useful and versatile for many things... But the machismo often kill the deal... Of course it is light duty..but heavier than many admit...

Totally agree, minivans are extremely useful. They are way better at moving people on the road than most vehicles.

 

[Martinjmpr]

My guess is that the "sloppy" feel has more to do with the age and wear of the specific truck involved. Consider that the newest GMT-800 Suburban is now 12 years old and most of the ones you see on the used market are well used. When buying something this old it's realistic to consider replacing (or even upgrading) some of the wear components in the steering system. Mine is still pretty "tight", at least enough that I don't feel like spending the money to change anything. As far as a "sloppy" feel, honestly my 4runner was worse, not sure why. It seemed to wander a bit at highway speeds, especially with the trailer behind it. The Suburban seems rock steady, even at 172k miles.

The 5.3 in the GMT800 is not known for being extremely powerful and the 4 speed auto that puts a huge gap between 2nd and 3rd doesn't help much either. On paper, at least, the newer 5.3's in the GMT-900 trucks have significantly increased power. Of course, that power comes with increased complexity and more things to go wrong (like the infamous AFM or Active Fuel Management system that shuts down 4 cylinders for better MPG.)

Another factor is weight, a Suburban weighs almost 500lbs more than a 1st gen Sequoia.

Honestly, every choice you make in life is going to be some kind of compromise. A 12+ year old truck is going to have a lot of compromises built in, so ultimately it comes down to what you can live with. Between the size, the capability and the reasonably low cost to buy and maintain, many of us have decided that the GMT800 Suburban works for us, but that doesn't neccessarily mean it will work for you.

Much as I like the Suburban platform, I've decided my next vehicle will have to be a pickup. Not because I don't like the Suburban (I actually prefer the "single body" design of a big wagon vs. a pickup) but because GM, in their wisdom has decided to remove most of the "utility" from the Suburban design and turn it into a big station wagon with plenty of perks for passengers but virtually no allowances for cargo or utility (the non-flat folding 2nd row and non-removable 3rd row, the removal of a low-range transfer case on 4x4 models except as an option, etc.) For that reason as well as cost I've come to the conclusion that a full size half ton crew cab will better suit my needs, even though that entails a lot of compromises too.

As an aside I still think it's a shame that GM decided to kill the Avalanche back in 2013. It was a genius idea to have a convertible cargo/passenger area. I just think not enough customers really appreciated it and ultimately just used it as a pickup without ever resorting to using the disappearing mid-gate for bigger cargo, and because of that, GM figured that the same customers would likely just buy a cheaper-to-make crew cab pickup instead.

 

[Buddha.]

Curb weight on my k1500 z71 tow-packaged Sub with a full tank and about 300# of stuff in my full drawer / platform setup is about 5900lbs and my rated GVWR is 12,000.

Your GVWR is not 12,000#, that would mean you're payload is #6000lbs plus. I suspect your 12,000# figure is more inline with your GCWR.

 

[mnwanders]

My guess is that the "sloppy" feel has more to do with the age and wear of the specific truck involved. Consider that the newest GMT-800 Suburban is now 12 years old and most of the ones you see on the used market are well used. When buying something this old it's realistic to consider replacing (or even upgrading) some of the wear components in the steering system. Mine is still pretty "tight", at least enough that I don't feel like spending the money to change anything. As far as a "sloppy" feel, honestly my 4runner was worse, not sure why. It seemed to wander a bit at highway speeds, especially with the trailer behind it. The Suburban seems rock steady, even at 172k miles.

The 5.3 in the GMT800 is not known for being extremely powerful and the 4 speed auto that puts a huge gap between 2nd and 3rd doesn't help much either. On paper, at least, the newer 5.3's in the GMT-900 trucks have significantly increased power. Of course, that power comes with increased complexity and more things to go wrong (like the infamous AFM or Active Fuel Management system that shuts down 4 cylinders for better MPG.)

Another factor is weight, a Suburban weighs almost 500lbs more than a 1st gen Sequoia.

Honestly, every choice you make in life is going to be some kind of compromise. A 12+ year old truck is going to have a lot of compromises built in, so ultimately it comes down to what you can live with. Between the size, the capability and the reasonably low cost to buy and maintain, many of us have decided that the GMT800 Suburban works for us, but that doesn't neccessarily mean it will work for you.

Much as I like the Suburban platform, I've decided my next vehicle will have to be a pickup. Not because I don't like the Suburban (I actually prefer the "single body" design of a big wagon vs. a pickup) but because GM, in their wisdom has decided to remove most of the "utility" from the Suburban design and turn it into a big station wagon with plenty of perks for passengers but virtually no allowances for cargo or utility (the non-flat folding 2nd row and non-removable 3rd row, the removal of a low-range transfer case on 4x4 models except as an option, etc.) For that reason as well as cost I've come to the conclusion that a full size half ton crew cab will better suit my needs, even though that entails a lot of compromises too.

As an aside I still think it's a shame that GM decided to kill the Avalanche back in 2013. It was a genius idea to have a convertible cargo/passenger area. I just think not enough customers really appreciated it and ultimately just used it as a pickup without ever resorting to using the disappearing mid-gate for bigger cargo, and because of that, GM figured that the same customers would likely just buy a cheaper-to-make crew cab pickup instead.

I actually had the same thought in regard to the steering. I wondered if it was just the age of the vehicle and not the system itself. But I am comparing it to roughly the same age Sequoia. Believe me when I say that I want to like the Suburban. I am really trying to justify it being my everything vehicle. All of the numbers say it should be a better vehicle for my family, but there is just something about it that feels off to me. But I'm hoping that feeling will go away if I drive a nicer low miles one from the SW. I do appreciate the ideas on the GMT900, but I've never quite liked the look of that vehicle. It does come across to me even more like a station wagon than the -800, but since I'm coming from a minivan, I probably shouldn't care about that!

I also agree with the crew cab full-size idea. That's probably the direction I'd go if I had one less kid and no dog, but that's not an option with as big a family as I have.

 

[Lykos]

The common failure points that I'm aware of on the 05 Burb (mine is an 03 z71) are as follows.
Intake gasket failure. It's an easy and cheap fix if you DIY.
Trans issues. The 4l60 is what it is. Get a warranty if possible.
Normal wear items such as water pump, rear main leakage, power steering pump etc. Normal old car stuff.
That i%%@$&#$$$$$ instrument cluster! These trucks instrument clusters go out. It's not an if it's a when. The repair is a pain. Most opt for the more expensive replacement. It's not the end of the world but it is a pain.

On the Z71 specifically there are rivets that hold on the brackets for the rocker panel cladding that like to rust out. When they do the nerf bars will get spongy. They won't fall off but they will give a little. Mine do. I'm 375 lbs and can still stand on them but they do give a bit. There's a 47 page service bulletin from GM about it. If your rockers aren't rusted the repair is an easy afternoon of drilling out old rusty rivers and installing new ones.


RUST!,! GM screed the pooch on their steel in these trucks. They can and will rust. Rockers and the quarter panels are the worst spots.

I've replaced an instrument cluster, a rear lower quarter panel, have a leaky intake gasket AND spongy nerf bars and I don't regret my purchase at all. I didn't buy a 15 year old vehicle expecting it to be perfect. But for what I paid, what parts and repairs cost and all around usefulness of the rig it's a great truck.


I plan on rectifying the lack of power issue with a good tune. What a lot of people don't realize is that our 5.3s are detuned to meet emissions requirements. A solid retune can really wake these things up. I think Black Bear tunes are plug and play for about $250. I'll have mine live tuned. I got a guy...

 

[XJLI]

I plan on rectifying the lack of power issue with a good tune. What a lot of people don't realize is that our 5.3s are detuned to meet emissions requirements. A solid retune can really wake these things up. I think Black Bear tunes are plug and play for about $250. I'll have mine live tuned. I got a guy...

This. I hate matting the gas pedal from a stop and the truck takes off slower than my old Land Rover did. I plan on doing the black bear tune sooner than later.

 

[rayra]

There's a lot of very basic maintenance and baselining that can be done which will greatly improve your engine performance, before you pour money on the chip. And replacement parts are inexpensive from places like rockauto.com (no connection, just a happy customer, I do as much of my own work as I can)

In my 'hey vortec guys' topic (2nd link in my sig) I describe a very simple fix for throttle response, power and top end performance on these GMT800s - take the slack out of the throttle cable. 140k mi+, there will be plenty. There's an adjust fitting right at the throttle body linkage. Makes a noticeable improvement and it's FREE.

eta throttle cable stuff starts on pg25 / post 369
https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...pickup-suburban-yukon-etc.155266/post-2337086

 

[XJLI]

In my 'hey vortec guys' topic (2nd link in my sig) I describe a very simple fix for throttle response, power and top end performance on these GMT800s - take the slack out of the throttle cable. 140k mi+, there will be plenty. There's an adjust fitting right at the throttle body linkage. Makes a noticeable improvement and it's FREE.

Definitely something to do on the older trucks, but my throttle "cable" can only be adjusted with a tune.

 

[Martinjmpr]

There's a lot of very basic maintenance and baselining that can be done which will greatly improve your engine performance, before you pour money on the chip. And replacement parts are inexpensive from places like rockauto.com (no connection, just a happy customer, I do as much of my own work as I can)

In my 'hey vortec guys' topic (2nd link in my sig) I describe a very simple fix for throttle response, power and top end performance on these GMT800s - take the slack out of the throttle cable. 140k mi+, there will be plenty. There's an adjust fitting right at the throttle body linkage. Makes a noticeable improvement and it's FREE.

eta throttle cable stuff starts on pg25 / post 369
https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...pickup-suburban-yukon-etc.155266/post-2337086

Good to know. I've noticed very "mushy" responses from mashing the go pedal so I'm guessing that at 171k miles mine has some significant slack. If I get time this week I'll check mine out. Might have to hit you up for some further advice, though, as I've never messed with this part of my engine.