Re-rigging a pull using a manual winch

[trasko]

I've been wondering something for awhile. I've read of people using manual winches (Wyeth Scott or misc come-alongs) to pull rigs out. It seems like with enough snatch blocks and cable one can generate however much force you need. The only trade-off is time to rig everything up and how many pulls of the handle it will take.

On the Tifor-style "wire rope grabbers" (or Black Rat style) those "crawl" along the wire rope which means you essentially never need to re-rig.

There is one thing I haven't figured out, though: A typical come-along with a 2:1 pully setup on it already (for example see picture below) only has enough room on the drum to pull in 10 or 20 feet. What if the pull is longer? How do you re-rig? If you've got a 50' extension run out between a bunch of snatch blocks and it comes all the way to your truck how will you pull it? I don't think you can shorten it and pull at any arbitrary point along the wire rope (or amsteel), right? If you only have 10 feet to work with it seems like you would have to re-rig every 10 feet and each time you do it you might have to do it a different way. Perhaps you add another snatch block into the equation to effectively "shorten" the extension again... It just seems like a pain.

What am I missing? I haven't seen other people running into this problem so perhaps I'm missing something obvious.

In the end I think a real electric winch is ideal but I feel like for the cost of the winch, the mounting cradle (or bumper) and the wiring you're going to be well north of $1k and > 130lbs while a strong hand-winch is <$200 and maybe 25lbs. In either case I think it's necessary to get extra stuff (snatch blocks, extensions, chain, etc.) so that doesn't really factor too much IMO. I don't go out intending to get stuck so this would only be for emergencies. I would pull the trigger on this except I don't understand how you would do a pull of arbitrary length.

Example situation:
1) There is a single tree 110 feet away. You have 100' of extension and 10' of travel on your come-along. You connect it all up, pull 10 feet and now you need to re-rig to pull an additional 20 feet to get free of the obstacle. What do you do?

 

[downhill]

The situation you explained is a limiting factor. You need extensions of different lengths, or multiple anchors. you can adjust length on chain easily, but it is heavy. I had the same unit you pictured for many years. Another huge problem is that you can't steer or drive the truck while you winch. It is pretty much a two man operation most of the time. I think the only real answer for a winch is a winch.

 

[trasko]

Hmm, I was afraid of that. I'm at a cafe and started sketching some stuff out. If you have a 20' tree saver and a 100' extension and 10' of pull on your come-along you can get a max range of something like 100' + 13' + 10' (123').

You could pull that down 10' to 113'. You re-rig: 100' extension + 4' strap (double-wrapped) + 10' winch reach (to reach 114').

So you pull that down 9' and now you're at 104'. Re-rig to 100' extension + 1' strap (triple-wrapped) + 10' winch strap (reach of 111' but you're at 104')

You pull down 3' to get to 101'. Now you're stuck. You can't re-rig to pull. Your next viable range with what you have is doubling-over the 100' extension to 50' and then adding your strap at winch cable (50' + 13' + 10' == 73'). That leaves a gap of 28' you can't pull through...

This means you need more variety in your rigging. 2 50 foot extensions rather than a single 100. I'll do the numbers on that later...

 

[Pntyrmvr]

Add in the "taking up the slack" factor and the 10' of cable on the hand powered unit is more like 6'. No one can keep the tension up on the setup with bare hands so the slack continues with each re rig.


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."

 

[trasko]

Hmm. True.

I liked the manually winching technique with a hi-lift where you use a chain to take the lift out of the equation while you re-rig. It keeps your progress and doesn't stretch, however I'm not looking to use the hi-lift. I had one for awhile and found it tipsy and incompatible for modern vehicles without sliders/bumpers/etc. I imagine you can rig a chain into the system to allow for this (I have a few) but the more piecemeal the system the more you'll have to re-rig...

 

[proper4wd]

If a Tirfor is compatible with synthetic cable, that would be the only real hand winch solution that's viable in my opinion. Otherwise you'll end up with 300 pounds of gear that still only works under ideal circumstances.

 

[trasko]

AFAIK Tifor is not compatible. The mechanism relies upon using steel rope.

 

[bhguy]

We use tirforjacks on a consistent basis for pulling out trucks and equipment at work........on steel erection sites its a tool thats always around.i have used them personally as well but now i dont have a truck that large loop of cable takes up too much room in the 4 runner. Very reliable..the cable will slip when muddy and snowy at times

 

[downhill]

$300 and done :wings:
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Winches-...7zAcehkAbae4VBimQbDzlKHVseRWbvWJyShoCS9Lw_wcB

 

[trasko]

Yeah, $300 seems cheap for what you get. I'd need to build something to hold it, however, I've got a stock 2nd gen Frontier.

 

[downhill]

I understand. It's just a suggestion. I resisted winches for a long time because I just don't like complications of any kind. I did the hi lift winch thing, and the premium come-along thing. They are such a pain to use and so limited. I ended up just avoiding any circumstance where they might be needed because I didn't want the hassle of using them. I have a feeling you will probably evolve along the same lines. I have the synthetic version of that winch now, and I like it. The red come along you showed is probably $250 right? I think mine was $200 30 years ago.

 

[trasko]

Everything I read says the same thing: get a regular winch. Not a portable/cradle mount. Not a come-along. Not a Tifor-style. A regular, electric, permanently mounted winch.

It's starting to sink in, but I won't be doing until I can integrate it cleanly into a stock bumper for find an aftermarket one for a reasonable price.

 

[Aussie Iron]

How about some thing like this. 8Hp Honda driving a Landrover Capstan Winch which I use 100 metres of 27000lb (12000kg) rope. Saves taking the Tirfor. Wheels and handle are only for moving it around.



Dan.

 

[aardvarcus]

I rebuilt a high end hand winch to accept synthetic line by sanding the drum and replacing the fairlead with HDPE. Put 60' of 3/16 synthetic on there, could have fit 1/4" but wanted to have winch line as the weakest point, not the winch. Probably could have fit 100' if I had elongated the fairlead to wind across the whole drum, not mainly in the center. Masterpull superline 3/16 in 100' would have really been ideal for a stong come along style hand winch to maximize strength and length.



For extensions, I have a variety of inexpensive 20' 20k tow straps (not snatch straps) so I can adjust in 20' or 10' increments.

It all depends on the offroading/exploring you are doing. For example, other than to test/practice I have never used the hand winch to get the vehicle unstuck. This is because I don't go out to intentionally get stuck, and have not yet pushed the limit too far. But it makes me more comfortable to have it, so that I don't have a bad day. Right this second, that hand winch is at a friends house quad rigged (with three pulleys) and many shackles/extensions re-racking his garage which was leaning when he bought it. (It is not rigged back to itself.) Based on line breaking strength, that is 20k+ lbs of pull at 15' movement, which has corrected 75% of the leaning problem in his block wall.

If you want a electric winch, save up and get one. I will probably have one for my vehicle some day. But that does not discount the hand winch as a viable recovery option.

 

[aardvarcus]

For the actual re-rigging question, if your vehicle can stay where it is at (aka not slide back) I would pull all you can, and then adjust your straps by removing or doubling them as you have already diagramed. If your vehicle is going to slide when you let off of it, that is where the multiple shorter straps shine, as you could rig a shorter strap to hold the vehicle where it is at, then move the come along back to the next available strap intersection, shackle the come along to that point, and pull it the next length. That would be hard to accomplish if you only had one really long extension.