RTT's and Rain

[Lemsteraak]

Hey Martyn,

Yes, I'm trying to give Mike a hand. Just got back from a month in the Copper Canyon with Frenchie, he is a trip. Had us on things he called roads, the logging roads felt like freeways. I have a new appreciation for what you guys do. I've been through hurricanes, and crossed seas, but what he had us on is every bit as challenging, he knows his stuff.

Could have used one of your trailers. Frenchie has a 4x4 trailer and it is a well built trailer, just not optimized for off road, very harsh ride. I put one of our little OverCamp tents on it and couldn't believe the punishment everything in the trailer took. I have a lot of respect for all the engineering work Mario puts in on your suspensions. Gave me a new appreciation of North American conditions and some of the stuff you guys go out in.

Rich @ AutoHome
www.AutoHomeUS.com

 

[BlueHZT60]

Hey Martyn,

Rich @ AutoHome
www.AutoHomeUS.com

Rich, Hello from your first customer in the NW The Maggiolina is still going, although it has seen some very hard use over the past 7+ years.

Good to read about the innovations. I'm about to bite the bullet and get a second tent.

Bob Bancroft
Bend, OR (Medford now adays)

 

[BlueHZT60]

Interesting to read about the 303 products. I'll definately be cleaning and treating.

I've used 3M & Silicone spray in the past. OOPS, I get no beading of water anymore - but what do you expect with what I've put the tent through.

I've spent many nights in sideways rain and never gotten wet inside. Yes I have sponged about 5 cups of water out of the interior, but the mattress stayed dry and all my stuff (that wasn't touching an exterior wall).

My Maggiolina has had two storage roof break events. Both were ice dams from outdoor winter storage. First, I opened it up to a moldy interior (that was year 2 of use). I rebuilt the interior with real wood, cleaned & patched the roof. Next (some 4 years later) another ice break. This time the mattress was frozen solid - I couldn't even get it out until it thawed. This time I rebuilt the roof with a fiberglass reinforcing strip along the angled part.

This year, I get to patch last years oops on a tree, then clean/treat the cloth sides. I'm also putting in a second Littlelite for reading, adding a 12v mattress warmer (thanks for the idea Pasquale) and relegating the large Maggiolina to being a trailer queen. I'm also emailing Mike in a moment about the absorbent padding for underneath. That might just be the trick to making the mattress just that little tiny bit more comfortable.

Bob

 

[Lemsteraak]

Hey Bob,

Great to hear that your tent has survived all you have put it through. I've really enjoyed following your adventures, I was just looking at one of your pictures from Alaska today.

The 3M Scotch Guard will not hurt the fabric, think of the fabric like a mesh or lattice, something to support the DWR. I talked at length with the chemist at 303 products and it is perfect for Dralon. As long as you don't have any big holes, should work as new. I tested 303 against salt water and have been very impressed so far.

Personally, I like the old tents like yours. The new ones are really pretty and too nice to mess with but an old Maggiolina Adventure just begs to be modified. Polyester resin and glass fiber are heavy, I prefer epoxy and either e-glass or carbon fiber. Virtually no weight but huge strength. Carbon is really expensive, I buy 3 inch wide carbon tape an it is about $5 a foot, but it is amazing stuff. Bob, one suggestion, I don't know but maybe you might want to think about keeping the mattress inside the house, you don't want to know what the replacement cost is. Just prop it up in the back of a closet during the winter, you know, when you are storing your tent under eight feet of snow.

I bought a used tent like yours that was owned by PG&E, when they went bankrupt, one of their crews used it. It was surplus and I bought it back really cheap. The hitch was I couldn't get it for five months because it was under ten feet of snow and they weren't quite sure where it was. It was perfect when I opened it up, it is now being thrashed in Baja. Just replaced a lift arm, the new owner tried to raise the top with 300 pounds on top.

I do like the new mesh for under the mattress. It is expensive though, it is made in Germany but I think it is worth the trouble getting it in. We are shipping air so we have it shipped down from Germany and then Zifer loads it in our containers. I would like to get full rolls of this stuff someday.

Rich @ AutoHome
www.AutoHomeUS.com

 

[HMR]

Rich,
Can you tell me what model Maggiolina I have? Any idea how old this thing might be? I'm in the process of restoring the exterior and would like to know more about the tent. I bought it off a member here who apparently didn't use it much but didn't take very good care of it either. I'm hoping to bring it back to "like new" condition.

A few pics:

It's approx. the same width as a medium Airland but 10 inches shorter.

It's great having you RTT experts on here. I'm learning a lot!

-Jeremy

 

[Lemsteraak]

Hey Jeremy,

Your tent looks great, it is a Maggiolina On Line. These came in small and medium, yours appears to be a medium sized one. It was the Goldilocks tent for years, just the right size for world travel. The large Maggiolinas tended to overhang the roof on many vehicles so was exposed to possible damage and some folks were gone for years so the small could be a little confining. I think you could still get this tent until last year when the Maggiolina Grand Tour was introduced.

The concept behind the On Line is it is designed for world travel. The roof was designed a little taller so everything goes inside. You can unlatch the tent, but unless you have the crank handle and know how to use it, that tent does not open without breaking it open. It was designed not only to protect you from the weather, it was also designed to protect your gear from theft. You may also notice that nowhere does it say what it is, this is again to protect your stuff in places like Mexico or North Africa.

There is one story that I like. When we were coming up with the new AirLand, Gioseppi, the designer had the new gray Draylon fabric and wanted my opinion. I've always thought the blue to be a little bright so I asked why don't we change all the fabric to the new gray. I loved his response, he said no, "it is the quality of light". I didn't understand so he explained. "Think of yourself as being in Morocco and you are done, tired, and hassled and want to go home. Take shower, get a book, climb into your tent and listen to your music. The blue light that comes through is soothing and you will soon be right again." This is the thought that went into your tent.

There are a couple small issues with your tent, it was designed originally for Switzerland and Austria and is a cold weather tent so it only came with one door, if I remember right on the passenger side. We put in the second "door" on the other side for the US but it really was a window. If you put the old style steel ladder on that side it will break the wood shield for the lift mechanism. No big deal, but if you have the steel ladder, we need to get you one of the alloy ones, that problem will go away.

The other issue is the fiberglass. The shape of the On Line was designed when the tents were made of polyester resin. The problem with polyester resins is that they are very rigid so if you hit something, the whole area will shatter like glass and is difficult to repair. The new Isothalic resin that yours and all the current tents use, except the carbon fiber tents, is very flexible. Damage is isolated and much easier to repair, just put a piece of duct tape on an go. The problem is that Isothalic resin can be formed a little by heat. If you put a heavy object on your tent's roof on a very hot day, the roof will deform and be concave instead of a slight convex. No big deal, next hot day stuff something in the tent and close it so the tents roof bows out and the heat sets it back. All the tents have this problem a little but the On Line shape make it more noticeable. This was corrected in the "Top Line" same tent as yours but has some reinforcement in the roof.

From what I can see, all you need to do to get your tent to be as good as new is polish it. Automotive polish will work but they are designed for a hard finish. Your fiberglass is protected with a thick soft finish we call jellcoat. 3M make a fiberglass cleaner and polish that is perfect for this. You can find it at most marine store. If you can't find it locally, we can set you up.

Rich @ AutoHome
www.AutoHomeUS.com

 

[HMR]

Thank You!

That's an awesome amount of info!!! :bowdown:


I love the story about the blue fabric- that's totally true!- my wife and I have commented on the "quality" of the light. I was also wondering why the ladder (I have the old steel type) can only be used on one side. Very interesting.

Thanks, again!

 

[Honu]

Aloha all

first post here figured I had to start somewhere to get me going

anyway fun thread to read as I am looking at a RTT most likely on a trailer really just for camping and some exploring on the mainland (moved to AZ a few years ago)

but coming from the islands I am used to rain dumps and humid wet days in some parts
I also have spent a year in Honduras and also in Micronesia (Chuuk) I was going to waterproof the local way with a huge blue tarp over everyting
(we only used canvas on boats but thats a dif use)

when I lived in Honduras there was a reason the basic rubber boots were what the locals wear as the cool high tech stuff falls apart after a few months of jungle living and the rubber boots dry out quickly have no residue etc... much like the blue tarps vs the cool high tech stuff


the big blue tarps were always used to cover everything like a huge awning and never had wet issues the nice thing is they dry almost all the way with a good shake off and are cheap if they are wet when packing we would just put them in a garbage bag keeping all are other gear clean/dry

the variety of cover to keep away the bugs and other things when under the big blue tarps tend not to matter as much that way either
and in Hawaii you don't really need anything under the big blue tarp
in Honduras its a good way to get rain water by letting it drain into a big tub kinda like a catchment system for other water uses around camp

longest I ever lived out of a tent was 6 months used to spend about 2 or so months a year out of a tent (except for the last few years) of various types so have had lots of tent time and some fun rough living times also did a month of living off the land with a buddy and once you actually try it you find out how hard it is to truly live off the land although we cheated a bit and used a pole spear and fins and mask for fishing coconut water after ten days or so gets old also and its amazing how many you have to go through to get enough water to not be left thirsty


so those who have been at the expedition type car thing am I missing something or do lots use this method
or is it to gheto/local or ?

 

[Desertdude]

Welcome to the Portal

We used the blue tarp method for three months in Alaska.

When you spend 2-3K on a RTT... Yeah its a bit ghetto

 

[Martyn]

Hey Martyn,

Yes, I'm trying to give Mike a hand. Just got back from a month in the Copper Canyon with Frenchie, he is a trip. Had us on things he called roads, the logging roads felt like freeways. I have a new appreciation for what you guys do. I've been through hurricanes, and crossed seas, but what he had us on is every bit as challenging, he knows his stuff.

Could have used one of your trailers. Frenchie has a 4x4 trailer and it is a well built trailer, just not optimized for off road, very harsh ride. I put one of our little OverCamp tents on it and couldn't believe the punishment everything in the trailer took. I have a lot of respect for all the engineering work Mario puts in on your suspensions. Gave me a new appreciation of North American conditions and some of the stuff you guys go out in.

Rich @ AutoHome
www.AutoHomeUS.com

We have been doing our level best to get Frenchie a trailer for about a year now. But we are into our third year where we sell every trailer we make before it is built.

Mario has been doing some suspension tuning, and we are very happy with the initial tests on the proto-type. The next refinement is amazing, takes us up an other notch.

 

[Mike S]

We have been doing our level best to get Frenchie a trailer for about a year now. But we are into our third year where we sell every trailer we make before it is built.

Martyn,

I was with Frenchie in San Diego a couple weeks ago, and he mentioned that he is waiting for the trailer. He is looking forward to getting one from you and will mount his Maggiolina Extreme on top.

We keep offering him a new tent, and he always says, "Naw, there's nothing wrong with the one I have..." That's Frenchie.

 

[Lemsteraak]

Martyn,

Just shows how far the off road trailers have come. Frenchie's 4x4 trailer was state of the art a few years back. It works well, for rock and gravel, just wouldn't want to put anything of value in it. But, as you know, I'm not a real off road guy, but I can't understand why in the world anyone would have a trailer without a compliant suspension and shock absorbers. My idea of the ultimate off road vehicle is a 2cv. I know Mario knows these little cars well, probably why he places so much importance on suspension. It is simple, if you have a good suspension, you can travel much faster and farther.
Glad to hear that your trailers are selling so well.

Rich @ AutoHome

 

[Corey]

Just signed up over here yesterday, been catching up on the Autohome threads.

Mine is brand new, have only had it for a month.
I take it I will not have to do the 303 treatment until maybe next year around summer, or longer?

Mine is the AirLand model, very high quality.

 

[Lemsteraak]

Hi Corey,

The DWR finish on the Maggiolina's Dralon fabric is good for many years. There are a lot of crazies who sleep on their cars for years on end. I have on friend who uses his Maggiolina over 200 nights a year and his tent is over five years old, looks great and performs flawlessly.

There are other crazies who for some strange reason venture into the tropics. Francois Deroux, a French journalist and adventurer, had a Maggiolina in a trip a couple years ago in Central America. His tent was many years old, and in Panama he said the rain was relentless, like God was crying. He was concerned about the fabric wicking, even thought his stuff never got wet. There is a metal "Z" channel at the bottom of the fabric that will protect against this. There are times where water will get inside, open doors, condensation, that sort of thing. Under your mattress are channels to hold this water away from the mattress.

Now after many years, the sun, dirt, and age will get the better of the DWR finish. Clean and apply 303 protectant, leave in the sun to get it to fuse to the fabric and it is like new. I prefer 303 over the silicons because silicons tend to attract dust and dirt, the 303 stuff doesn't seem to. Other than that Nikwax and the like seem to perform well. It is sometimes hard to get past the marketing hype but I talked to the guy that developed 303 and he was convincing. Now I don't know how long the finish lasts, my test is going well after a year continuous exposure.

Rich @ AutoHomeUS

 

[grahamfitter]

I experimented with my new Autohome Overcamp (the small one that occupies just half the rack) RTT during a particularly rainy week a couple of weeks ago. The carefully controlled experiment went like this: wait for rain, sleep in the tent, pack it up wet in the morning, open it up the next night and take a look with the honest intention of letting it dry.

1. On and off rain all night. Can't hear the rain inside the tent. In the morning, absolutely no moisture in the tent, fabric dry to touch on the inside, plenty of water beaded up on the outside. Packed up tent still raining, with absolutely no attention to what touches what other than making sure the doors are zipped shut. Next evening, tent still has water beaded up on the outside and is dry to touch on the inside. Its raining again.
   
2. Pouring down all night. Belting down. Still can't hear the rain inside the tent. In the morning, no moisture in the tent, fabric damp and clammy to touch but no water droplets on the inside, lots of water beaded up on the outside. Still raining. Same packing technique. Next night, water still beaded on outside, inside seems dryer.
   
3. Leave it packed wet for a week. This wasn't intentional! I left the tent up for a few hours in a gap in the rain to dry, but there wasn't any wind and the water beads on the top didn't disappear. I didn't help them, packed up the tent, it rained for another couple of days, stopped raining but the Jeep was in the shop for some unexpected rear-end work, then it rained some more, then finally after a week it stopped for a day and I opened up the tent. Some water still beaded up on the outside, dry on the inside. No moisture under the mattress. No smell. Breeze evaporated all external moisture in half an hour or so.
   
4. Green pollen. The sort of stuff that stains a soft top. Not rain but it falls from the sky in large quantities this time of year. I didn't have the tent open when it landed but the cover was green for an unexpected couple of dry days until rained. No stain.

The only thing the tent is missing in the rain is an awning that somewhat covers the door so your socks don't get wet when you poke your feet out in the morning. Either door can be propped up awning style using provided poles so I'm thinking something that connects to the built-in zipper above the door and use the same poles would be ideal. All that's needed is a matching zipper, some fabric and some metal pole holes.

That and a little robot to put the cover back on. There's definitely a technique to it but you still have to faff around with elastic that's arms-length away while standing on slippery metal.

Sorry, no photos. Check out the website. As far as construction and basic features goes, it looks pretty similar to the Overland tent that was reviewed a while back in Overland Journal.

I'll try to do a longer test if we're expecting another full week of rain, sleep in it every night and pack it up every day. More news as it happens.

Fortunately the mosquitoes, black flies and horse flies haven't appeared yet so I can't attest to the bug-proofing!

Cheers,
Graham