Series 3 owner! and a few questions

[Electron]

Hi

If you have a local autoparts shop, the Fleetguard part number for the correct filter (cartridge type not spin on) is LF598. Be very careful with the rubber seals when refitting, they're a sod to seat correctly.

Regarding the swivels - a lot of people think they can use grease but this is NOT the case on any series motor. The bearings are all splash lubricated and grease does not splash. Only the later Defenders use grease.

 

[Antichrist]

There were two oil filters used on Series II, IIa and III Land Rovers, a long one, and a short one. They switched to the short one sometime in the mid 60's, but the only difference was the actual filter canister, so someone could fit the long style to the newer filter base.
You probably have the short one, but here are some numbers and filter length (length of the actual filter).
Short - 4.495"
WIX - 51099
AC - AC72
NAPA - 1099
Hastings - LF186

I'm not finding any current part numbers for the long ones (6 13/16" long), so hopefully you have the short one. If you have the long one and can't find a filter, let me know, I have a bunch of the short canisters.

 

[greenmeanie]

Hi
Regarding the swivels - a lot of people think they can use grease but this is NOT the case on any series motor. The bearings are all splash lubricated and grease does not splash. Only the later Defenders use grease.

Oh brother it's the old grease vs 90wt arguement. I hate to say it but if you put the CV type grease into a swivel housing and spin that UJ in there it WILL splash, and splash everywhere. I deal with that on the equipment I work with every day.

Pros of grease are that it sticks to surfaces better than oil so if you run freewheeling hubs and don't lock often it can help. If you get water in the housing the grease will stick to the lower bearing and not float on top like oil thus preventing corrosion. It is less prone to leak from worn seals although that is no excuse to skimp on replacement.

Pros of oil are that it is cheap, it is used everywhere else on the truck and it still works. If you play in sand or water you will need to swap it regularly and the grease is expensive.

In this case sticking to the maintenance intervals is far more important for component life than the lube you use.

Google is your friend. Do a search and run what suits you.

 

[weatherm]

Sounds like a tube of grease and some oil for good measure will do the trick.

The numbnuts before had a hub completely dry for who knows how many years .. .I put oil in it and the next day I had a nice pool on the driveway as a present.

Oh brother it's the old grease vs 90wt arguement. I hate to say it but if you put the CV type grease into a swivel housing and spin that UJ in there it WILL splash, and splash everywhere. I deal with that on the equipment I work with every day.

Pros of grease are that it sticks to surfaces better than oil so if you run freewheeling hubs and don't lock often it can help. If you get water in the housing the grease will stick to the lower bearing and not float on top like oil thus preventing corrosion. It is less prone to leak from worn seals although that is no excuse to skimp on replacement.

Pros of oil are that it is cheap, it is used everywhere else on the truck and it still works. If you play in sand or water you will need to swap it regularly and the grease is expensive.

In this case sticking to the maintenance intervals is far more important for component life than the lube you use.

Google is your friend. Do a search and run what suits you.

 

[Antichrist]

It's important to be clear about the difference between the hubs and swivel housings. Grease or oil in the hubs is really a personal choice.

If you're putting grease in the swivel housing, you have to be very careful what kind you use. Too thick and you definitely won't get the lubrication you need.

Personally, I use oil all the way across. My concern about grease in the swivel housing is with the grease working its way in to the u-joint needle bearings properly since centrifigul force is trying to throw it out.

 

[greenmeanie]

I'll freely admit I have used both on my trucks and in my case its more about what I have available than a real preference. I probably use more oil as I generally have that kicking around for the rest of the truck.

This is not to start a fight but the same CF load condition applies to the oil - why would oil not get flung away too? Having stripped the front axle a few times for other reasons I noted the grease does get into the UJ so I can say I have satisfied myself that it is OK to use.

The one shot CV grease is fairly thin stuff and willl flow out the housing when it is time for a change. The grease may be a bit more viscous but not enough to make a difference when subjected to the CF load in a UJ. Again ( As Antichrist states the type of grease is important) the CF loads will force the grease into the bearing caps in the same fashion as the oil where it dead heads.

 

[Snagger]

It's important to be clear about the difference between the hubs and swivel housings. Grease or oil in the hubs is really a personal choice.

If you're putting grease in the swivel housing, you have to be very careful what kind you use. Too thick and you definitely won't get the lubrication you need.

Personally, I use oil all the way across. My concern about grease in the swivel housing is with the grease working its way in to the u-joint needle bearings properly since centrifigul force is trying to throw it out.

Wrong way round - the rotational forces will cause the grease on the UJ spider to run down into the bearing cups and fill them and the needle rollers. I did 70,000 miles with 1-shot in my 109's swivels with no discernible wear to the UJs, half shaft bearings or swivel pins. I also used LM grease in the Railko bushes as oil drains away, and it works perfectly.

 

[greenmeanie]

Out of interest has anyone ever drilled a king pin axially and tapped for a zerc fitting and then cross drilled? I occasionally have wild ideas about doing this so that I can make sure they get periodic lube.

 

[Antichrist]

Wrong way round - the rotational forces will cause the grease on the UJ spider to run down into the bearing cups and fill them and the needle rollers. I did 70,000 miles with 1-shot in my 109's swivels with no discernible wear to the UJs, half shaft bearings or swivel pins. I also used LM grease in the Railko bushes as oil drains away, and it works perfectly.

Only as long as the grease is soft enough to settle to the bottom and work it's way in to the u-joint before it get's flung aside. That's one-shot, different than your typical wheel bearing grease.

Out of interest has anyone ever drilled a king pin axially and tapped for a zerc fitting and then cross drilled? I occasionally have wild ideas about doing this so that I can make sure they get periodic lube.

Haven't heard of anyone doing that. But it seems a lot of work. If you use gear lube, you don't have any worries.

 

[evilfij]

To complicate this further, I use 50% normal cheap grease and 50% 90wt mixed together.

 

[JSBriggs]

To complicate this further, I use 50% normal cheap grease and 50% 90wt mixed together.

So in a nutshell, Ron good!

Ive thought about this, but couldn't think of a way to do it with out making a complete mess. Care to share your methodology?

-Jeff

 

[Antichrist]

This is not to start a fight but the same CF load condition applies to the oil - why would oil not get flung away too?

It would. But the oil isn't as viscous and so tends to "splash" more and then run back down in to the bottom where it will get churned up again. Even more so after it warms up. The wrong grease and it will tend to stick more to the sides of the housing. Put some grease on your finger and flick it on to the side of something. Then do the same with oil and see the difference.

I'm not saying one is better than the other just that I can't really think of any reason to use grease, unless your swivel seals are shot.

 

[greenmeanie]

It would. But the oil isn't as viscous and so tends to "splash" more and then run back down in to the bottom where it will get churned up again. Even more so after it warms up. The wrong grease and it will tend to stick more to the sides of the housing. Put some grease on your finger and flick it on to the side of something. Then do the same with oil and see the difference.

I'm not saying one is better than the other just that I can't really think of any reason to use grease, unless your swivel seals are shot.

True, but that is why I specified CV grease. The one shot stuff is designed to splash too and will run off the surface in the test you describe. When I have drained it for servicing it is really quite liquid stuff. Even EvilFJ's mix can be tuned to be quite runny enough to do this.

I think TA once pointed out that grease might benefit those that run long distances on freewheeling hubs and do not lock in as often as the should.

My experience of grease being a better solution comes from the 101 world. The steering box on that truck is built in a similar fashion to the conventional series truck with a burman nut, top bearing and bottom bearing but uses a different casing inclined at a more vertical angle. The casing has no drain plug in the bottom. In the way these things do moisture tends to collect in the bottom of the steering box in the area of the lower bearing. If you use oil it naturally floats on top of the water with the rersult that the bearing doesn't get lubed and corrodes. In time the bearing collapses the column drops and the whole steering thing gets mighty interesting. I use grease now as it will stick to the bearing and not float off. I also added a drain plug at the lowest point.

If you do plenty of wading etc where water will get into the swivels grease will protect the lower swivel bearing better. Of course that is no substitute for good maintenance by swapping the fluids but you get the idea. I would regard that as more of a special case than a necessity for a daily driver.

As you say its personal preference and not worth the angst and hand wringing that is commonly associated with the subject.

 

[weatherm]

So why is my Fairy OD leaking gear oil when I don't use it? This has just recently happened?

 

[I Leak Oil]

Umm....the gears in your OD are always turning, splashing gear oil around. Most of the leaking comes from the hole in the top inspection cover that the factory calls a "breather". Should be called a puker...
The O-rings on the back cover and the on the selector shaft will leak when they get old and hard too.