Shopping for My next Rig, in an Under-served Market Segment

[dcbryan]

A couple weeks ago, my old reliable 97 Impreza was stolen and I've begun the search for my next vehicle.

So, I've got some very specific needs, as we all do here at ExPo. There have been several similar threads over the years by people looking for the same thing. So much so, that I'm just going to quote one:

I can't help but wonder if there is an under-served market segment here. Think about it in terms of a continuum: Imagine a scale from 1 to 10, where 1 represents a completely pavement-bound vehicle that can only travel on the mildest dirt roads (say, a Prius or a low-slung sports car) and 10 represents the most rugged, capable factory vehicle out there (the likes of a Jeep Rubicon or a LR Defender or an 80 series LC with lockers on both ends.)

Most passenger vehicles would be in the 1 - 2 range, most crossovers in the 1 - 3 range, and most genuine body-on-frame SUVs in the 7 - 9 range. There seems to be nothing in the 4-6 range, which to me would mean:

* AWD or 4wd of some kind
* Enough clearance to get over moderate sized rocks (say 4 - 6") and other obstacles
* Enough suspension travel to deal with the same
* Geared low enough to get through such terrain without the need for a separate low-range T-case.
* Car-like enough for decent handling and comfort on the highway (most likely with 4 wheel independent suspension.)

That's from the thread "Thoughts on "Crossing Over..." Martinjmpr's idea of a 4-6 range, is very similar to what I'm looking for.

Here are my specific requirements:

• ~2004 or newer
• Capable off road. preferably with 4 wheel high/low transfer case, at the very least a 4x4 lock setting.
• +17 MPG
• Available used with less than 120k for <$6500. I'm basing my prices on Portland Craigslist ads.

Here are the vehicles that I've been able to find that meet my requirements
__________________________________________________


Grand Vitara 2006-Present

• 4 Mode 4wd - 4h, 4h lock, 4L lock. (Detailed breakdown of 4wd system: 1,2,3)
• MPG: 17 City, 21 highway (for the 2007 model which is reaching the top of my price range)
• $5500 - $6500 Used for a 2006 with reasonable miles.

Kia Sorrento XE 2002-2008

• 2WD/4WD-Hi/4WD-LO. (Detailed breakdown of 4wd system: 1)
• MPG: 17 City, 21 highway
• $5000 - $5500

Jeep Liberty 2002-2007

• 2H (RWD), 4H (Lock only), 4L (Lock) (1)
• MPG: 15 City, 20 highway
• $4500 - $5800

Mitsubishi Montero Sport 1997-2004 **added**

• AWD/4WD-Hi/4WD-LO. (4wd system: 1)
• MPG: 14 City, 17 highway
• $3500 - $5000
• MPGs leaves a little to be desired. If it were it were more in the range 17/20 I'd be sold.

Nissan Xterra

• 2H (RWD), 4H (4WD), N (Neutral), 4L (2.02:1)
• MPG: 14 City, 19 highway
• $5000 - $6000
• My concern here, 1. Price and 2. MPG. I've had a hard time finding anything less than 10 years old and under my budget. I would be willing to increase my price range a bit, if not for the MPG. I just don't see this getting better than 17mpg in the real world.

Here's what didn't make the cut
__________________________________________________

Too Expensive: Toyota Highlander, BMW X5, 4Runner, VW Touareg, Tacoma, FJ Cruiser, Volvo CX90

Bad Gas mileage: Land Cruisers, Land Rover Discovery I and II , Isuzu tropper, Jeep Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, Mitsubishi Montero (non sport)

Poor Off Road Capability: Mitsubishi Outlander, Rav4, Honda CRV, Rouge, CX5, Subarus (or out of my price range), Suzuki SX4, Hyundai Santa Fe, Acura MDX, Ford Escape, Honda Element

Too Old: Samurai, Sidekick, Chevy Tracker,

Too ugly: Jeep Patriot, 2008+ Jeep Liberty

Reliability Issues: Land Rover Freelander


I'm posting this thread for two reason 1. To share my research with other, 2. To get feedback on what I've found so for, and of course suggestions on additional vehicles. So let's hear it!

 

[dcbryan]

A couple links for other doing the same research:

Here's a pretty cool table made for ranking Moab trails, all of the vehicles listed I've done some research into
http://www.expeditionswest.com/resources/expedition_handbook/vehicle_rating.htm

Similar ExPo threads:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...n-quot-Crossing-Over-quot?p=819097#post819097

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...-make-a-decision?highlight=KIA+SORENTO+VITARA

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ith-low-range?highlight=SORENTO+VITARA+blazer

 

[colintrax]

I think you're underestimating the escape. They do very well offroad aside from the v6 model having the Alternator so close to the front tire. But I'm always suprised at how good my mom's escape is whenever I get behind the wheel.

 

[dcbryan]

I think you're underestimating the escape. They do very well offroad aside from the v6 model having the Alternator so close to the front tire. But I'm always suprised at how good my mom's escape is whenever I get behind the wheel.

A little bit of quick research is telling me it doesn't really meet my requirements. For starters, no transfer case, no 4w low. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a FWD system until slip is detected, the torque (up to 100%) can be sent to back wheels.

With the "4x4 on" setting engaged "the rear axle is engaged quicker and more securely. The front and rear axles are, however, never locked together" it doesn't look like any limited slip differential was ever offered either. (Source)

Here are the Escape's 4wd settings. And it sounds like ford using the term 4x4 is really a misnomer.

Ford Escape AWD 2000 - Present

• 4x4 Auto (FWD until slip is detected) and 4x4 On
• MPG: 17 City, 21 highway
• $4200 - $6000

 

[docwatson]

Have you thought about the 2005-2006 Jeep Liberty diesel? Meets all the same criteria as the gasoline variant plus has ratings of 22 city and 26 hwy although I am not sure of the prices.

 

[freshlikesushi]

yeah, liberty is my suggestion

 

[Stroverlander]

I test drove a Jeep Liberty CRD 4x4 when I was looking to replace my '97 Safari AWD. I decided to go with a newer version of what I had - 2004 Astro AWD and haven't looked back on the choice as it's done everything I've asked of it and more for the past nine + years.

The Astro has 2.5x the cargo volume of the Liberty (170 cu ft vs 68 cu ft) while only approximately 15" longer overall so hauling people/kids, gear, motorcycles, work van, basecamp, sleeping (comfortably) inside, moving, building supplies (plywood, 2x4s), towing - all while still being able to park in fairly tight places (trailer towing excepted). Pretty much meets all your target requirements and the large 27 gallon fuel tank is nice too.

The 3.73 gears and G80 option rear locker have been fine for my travels, so haven't felt a two-speed case is a necessity but a t-case swap is cheap and easy enough and probably inevitable at some point.

 

[Dake21]

My experience is with a 2.4L but among anything else I tested last year the Grand Vitara was the one which handled the potholes on dirt road the best in term of comfort and stability. On the 2.7 check for valve clearance. If they are bad you will have a decrease in performance and MPG. Fuel economy should be in the early 20s MPG and if you take a non ESP version it uses a cam and pawl center diff (LSD). ESP version will use the brakes to lock a slipping wheel and that also works when it is off the ground. GV have no rear sway bar from factory to improve flex and comfort on rough terrain. Suspension is stiffer than your typical crossover but softer than a solid axle SUV.. There is some aftermarket support for them, mostly in Australia but they should have branch in the US as well. It also uses a ladder frame integrated to the body for more body stiffness and all doors open and close when tires are off the ground.

 

[colintrax]

You're correct, there's no low range. I do believe the front and rear are locked in 4wd. Don't hold me to that though.
IMO the escape doesn't really need 4low, if you want something with car like handling then 4low is more for bragging than a neccasity. Low range isn't the only thing you need to get down the rubican. With the escapes low weight, and decently low first gear. I think it holds it own pretty well offroad, considering how nice it rides down the road. FYI 25+ mpg is the norm. Get the hybrid or 4cyl stick shift if you really want some good SUV gas mileage.

If low range really is a deal breaker, then by all means ignore me. It certainly has its place offroad.

 

[Dake21]

You're correct, there's no low range. I do believe the front and rear are locked in 4wd. Don't hold me to that though.
IMO the escape doesn't really need 4low, if you want something with car like handling then 4low is more for bragging than a neccasity. Low range isn't the only thing you need to get down the rubican. With the escapes low weight, and decently low first gear. I think it holds it own pretty well offroad, considering how nice it rides down the road. FYI 25+ mpg is the norm. Get the hybrid or 4cyl stick shift if you really want some good SUV gas mileage.

If low range really is a deal breaker, then by all means ignore me. It certainly has its place offroad.

I think the land rover community will disagree and so do I. 4Lo has it's use in steeper terrain and deeper mud, unless you like to give your torque converter/clutch a beating.

 

[tgreening]

I had a Grand Vitara as a business trip rental a number of years back. The only thing I remember about it was how god awful uncomfortable that thing was to drive. There was no seat position available that worked. If it was adjusted so my leg to pedal position was comfortable I was so far back I was dang near looking out the back side window vs the drivers window. Scootched forward where I should be body wise my legs were so bent my knees practically wrapped the steering wheel. I absolutely hated that thing.

Maybe they've changed but based on my one and only experience I'd rather drive a rusted out Yugo across the Rubicon then be subjected to another Vitara.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Re: Grand Vitara. We had one for 4 years (2008 - 2012) and while it worked fine as th wife's DD, and was a beast in the snow with good tires, our typical MPG was 16 in the city and 18 on the highway. We never got anywhere NEAR 20 mpg with the GV. It also had a very noisy cabin and the seats were weird - it was like you were always sliding forward.
.
At the same time we had the GV we also had my 3rd gen 4runner (a 1999.) While the GV had nicer "features" being newer (a 2006) the 4runner was pretty much better in every category: more comfortable, more capable, roomier and got better MPG (16 - 18 in the city and on the highway I could pretty easily hit 20 - 22 when not towing. Best ever MPG was about 23 coming back from Durango.)
.
It's not that the GV was a bad vehicle, it wasn't. Never gave us any trouble except for a power steering pulley that was replaced under warranty. It's just that for the same cost and MPG you can get a much more capable vehicle.

 

[Martinjmpr]

What was the last year of the Mitsubishi Montero Sport? That may hit many (or all) of your requirements but I don't know when it was made.

 

[Somecallmetimm]

While I don't have any experience with the Sorento, I have dealt with other Kia models and really don't like them. They tend to be heavy with a terrible turning radius, bad braking and weak on power. Parts are difficult to come by unless you go through the dealership. I would suggest you stay away from Kia and look at other options.

Just a thought. Good luck on your search.

 

[Martinjmpr]

You know it's probably worth it to point out that there may be a reason this segment of the market is "under served." It may be because there's just not that much of a market out there for this type of vehicle.