Snorkel = Snake Oil ?

[R_Lefebvre]

I always wonder about the "water in the electronics" thing. I'm a newbie and don't know anything but...

Anybody who has driven in dense traffic on a freeway during a good rain storm has to know that everything under the hood is going to get SOAKED even though the truck is not underwater.

Shouldn't the electronics pretty much be waterproof already? Maybe not waterproof, but at least to the point that they can function while wet. I can understand that a distributor can cause particular problems, but I don't have one so I'm talking about distributorless.

This discussion always reminds me about the discussions I've had about my track car. When I cut a vent in the hood and people ask "but what happens when it rains?" "The engine gets wet, just like it does when I drive in the rain."

One question I do have about the snorkels: Why are they so damn expensive? $500 for $5 worth of plastic. I mean seriously. I could see $200, but $500 for a couple pounds of blow moulded plastic tube?

 

[slosurfer]

Try this:
1. Go to a carwash with your engine running, open the hood and spray the hell out of your engine. I think you will find that most modern vehicles will stay running just fine. I know, I run a self serve carwash and people do it all day long.

2. I doubt it will still be running if you run the hose into your intake while it is running.

I think it will take much more water and far longer for it to affect your electronics, then the little bit of water through your intake that will kill your motor. Anyways that's my .02

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I do have about the snorkels: Why are they so damn expensive? $500 for $5 worth of plastic. I mean seriously. I could see $200, but $500 for a couple pounds of blow moulded plastic tube?

Well, most of the snorkels I deal with are in the $300 range, still expensive, but completely bareable. Consider the R&D that goes into making them, the tooling that needs to be purchased to do so ($20-30k), then ramp up a production facility. Add the cost of the brackets, hardware, custom hose and fittings, along with the cost of packaging. Compound that with the falling US dollar and the high cost of importing (duties, taxes, increased fuel costs).... It doesn't sound so bad afterall

Seriously though, a company could come in an make a cheaper unit, but the market is actually quite small for snorkels IMO. Consider ARB/SS isn't even considering one for the newer Taco's due to lack of perceived demand... they wern't even happy with the sales of the Gen 1 Taco units, in hindsite they would have second guessed their producton given the sales numbers.

As a student in the engineering program at the local university I had an assignment to "mock build" some sort of project, naturally I chose something close to home, so I designed a snorkel, emailed the drawings to a couple of plastic mold facilities and built a "sales pitch" out of it. Long story short to have something made in limited quanities (my number was 250 units) in the US was going to cost nearly $350 for the snorkel body alone. Of course doing 500 would drop that number drastically (the tooling costs were insane). Then rember that is COST, not jobber, not retail, cost... and it would only fit a single model vehicle as designed. I quickly realized they arn't going to get any cheaper

 

[Brian McVickers]

Still on topic as this seems to be moving towards creating a complete water fording kit rather than just a snorkel......

This product "Corrosion Block" is pretty cool stuff.

http://www.nocorrosion.com/car-electrical-wiring.htm

I used it on boat electronics for years to ward off salt corrosion. The website also has a great testimonial of a BMW car that drove at speed into flood water and soaked the electronics. They sprayed everything with Corrosion Block and the vehicle started.

I'ts sort of along the same lines as dielectric grease.
:snorkel:

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, I guess there's always the tooling factor. I didn't really think the market was that small. Like, say for Land Rover Discovery snorkels. Seems like everybody has one.

I am an automotive engineer, and sometimes I still can't figure out how anybody managed to build a vehicle for the price they do. For example, say and EGR tube assembly. Tooling charge is usually on the order of $100,000 for something like that. And that's just one small part of the car. How anybody can sell a vehicle for $20k, I'll never know.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

1. Go to a carwash with your engine running, open the hood and spray the hell out of your engine. I think you will find that most modern vehicles will stay running just fine. I know, I run a self serve carwash and people do it all day long.

Exactly my point.

A comment was made about the exhaust. While the engine is running, the exhaust pressure can push the exhaust out and keep the water out. The only problem is if you stall. The water can then get sucked up the exhaust. But, since the engine isn't running, you're still ok.

I think the thing is, if you stall in deep water, pull the truck out, don't refire it. Then pull the plugs and crank it to be sure there's no water in the engine before refiring it. Should keep you safe?

 

[Colorado Ron]

Snorkels are soooooo overrated!

 

[BigAl]

Snorkels are soooooo overrated!

:chowtime: Awesome pic!

 

[Sloan]

Snorkels are soooooo overrated!

At that point the driver needs a snorkel too.

 

[pete.wilson]

Hey

I think if the real truth be known; 90% of the people using them, have them because they think it looks cool and adds a rugged appeal.

One point nobody mentioned is to what effect would the water have when your cooling fan which is belt driven hits the water especially as the water gets deeper, not like an electric fan that can be turned off. Seems this could be bad for things as well.

I had an old 85 Dodge Ramcharger w/318v8 when I lived in the UP of MI. since it was an ex-Florida conservation truck with no carbureater heat tubed attached, it had gotten some water sucked into the intake while off-roadin; it died about 5 miles from the nearest highway and took about 45 minutes to get it restarted, coughing white billows of smoke/steam and running kinda rough for several minutes. We made it out and I was glad to have a very HD battery in good shape. No other problems after.

Pete Wilson

 

[IronSmiles]

To me, here is what it boils down to. . While it may over/underated depending on your point of view you still stand a better chance of making it through a deep water crossing WITH one than WITHOUT.

I look at my snorkel like I do my gun, id rather have and not need it, than need it and not have it. :ylsmoke:

Not to mention it's been proven that you do get cleaner, fresher, cooler air through a snorkel. Hell, "cold air intakes" still suck in hot air since it's right next to the engine.

My ARB snorkel cost me 450 with tax and shipping and a couple hours of me and my buddies putting it on. I'd say it was worth it. :beer:

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Hell, "cold air intakes" still suck in hot air since it's right next to the engine.

Because those are the crappy, not real cold air intakes.

 

[pete.wilson]

Hey

Ironsmiles writes: "To me, here is what it boils down to. . While it may over/underated depending on your point of view you still stand a better chance of making it through a deep water crossing WITH one than WITHOUT.
I look at my snorkel like I do my gun, id rather have and not need it, than need it and not have it. "


How many times have you had been in water deep enough to flood your engine had it not been for the snorkel? Be honest, no BS!

Pete Wilson

 

[Alaska Mike]

How many times have you had been in water deep enough to flood your engine had it not been for the snorkel? Be honest, no BS!

That's a loaded question. As I mentioned, I've been in deep water many times (you can't avoid it up here on many trails) without a snorkel, and flooding the engine was certainly a possibility if I lost the engine compartment air pocket. That's easy to do in fast-moving water if you lose momentum. A snorkel certainly increases your odds of avoiding sucking in water.

Everything in the drivetrain is vented to the snorkel, and the distributor (a fairly high-mounted HEI) is moderately well sealed. The rest of the electrical system is pretty much stock. I have yet to lose power because of shorts, although I did lose my H4 headlights once because they were filled like fishbowls. I change my engine/gear oil and re-pack my wheel bearings after every run that involves water crossings. Labor intensive, but certainly less expensive than the alternative.

I do agree that 95% of the snorkels out there are expedition bling. I just happen to use mine as intended.

 

[IronSmiles]

Hey

Ironsmiles writes: "To me, here is what it boils down to. . While it may over/underated depending on your point of view you still stand a better chance of making it through a deep water crossing WITH one than WITHOUT.
I look at my snorkel like I do my gun, id rather have and not need it, than need it and not have it. "


How many times have you had been in water deep enough to flood your engine had it not been for the snorkel? Be honest, no BS!

Pete Wilson

Honestly? ONCE. It was OVER the hood, crossing what I thought was a shallow water body in arizona that turned out to be a LITTLE deeper. Granted, I have done SOME waterproofing to the electronics, but nothing really that extensive. I don't have my exhaust extended or anything. It was about a 30 meter crossing and I made it through ok, didn't stall or anything. I hadn't planned on going through it, but I was in a situation where I really didn't have a choice, and if I DIDN'T have it on there I garuntee I'd be telling you a story about hydrolock right now.

Your really adament about this, did a snorkel break into your house and steal your TV or something? Haha, j/k.

I think where the problem comes in is when people think because they have a snorkel they are suddenly driving a boat when that is definately not the case. I don't want a boat either, if I want to go chill in some water I'll grab a kayak, not my jeep, haha. For water purposes, I think snorkels are more reactive than proactive. I mean wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean if you get in a wreck you won't die, but it has the CHANCE of helping. But of course it changes everything if because you have that seatbelt you actively go around trying to hit people. If people use their snorkel because they are trying to be careful for the "what ifs", they should be ok. But then again, nothing is perfect.

P.S. -- My jeep is fine. :victory: