So I'm buying a van...

[Cole]

Tires- "another summer" of who and how many miles driving it? Basically this means "will be bald long before winter and I wouldn't use them then"!

"Cracked headers" indicates to me that there is something wrong with either the way the swap was done, the way the exhaust was done, or both! The natural movement of the engine is putting too much twist on he the exhaust! You could get it right with this $1,000 repair or it could cost you again in a thousand miles of driving.

At least when factory built vans have a cracked header problem then 10,000 owners have had the issue and worked out solutions, usually with a factory upgrade fix available. On a swapped van you might have 20 owners that have the same set up (if that) working out the issue.

 

[boardrider247]

he also says, "So, If you take that shop's word as fact, your offer seems okay, but it simply isn't reality. I also would like to sell it, too. I would sell it to you for $14,000. Like I said before, I think you have already moved on, but if you wan to do research and see that what I am saying is easily backed up, go for it. Otherwise, I will assume you are looking elsewhere.

If you find anything to back up what the shop is saying, let me know, because I couldn't."

he is confident in his disagreements.

If you are still interested ask him to take it to another shop.
Personally I would walk away.
I do see his point though it sucks when you are trying to sell something and someone comes along telling you all kinds of things wrong with it. But that is why buyers take vehicles in for a ppi to get a unbiased opinion.

 

[Cole]

The issue(s) I see with this current van is that there are several giant "mystery pending issues" with it, not one! There is the Body mystery, the engine swap mystery/issue, the transmission issue, the brake mystery/issue, the exhaust mystery/issue. And that is just the stuff we know about!!!!!!

The wiring system has been hacked into for the engine swap and the inverter. Is this part of the headlight issue? What other issues can arise? How good are you with a multimeter? If the answer is "not good" then maybe you should step back up to a OBDII van!!!!

 

[Stroverlander]

I can't imagine how much of a nightmare that van will be to work on/have worked (potential can of worms) on and the money it is going to take to keep it running. It sounds like the owner is of the mind that because he sunk vast sums of money into it that he should be able to recover that on the sale. The no A/C would be a deal killer for me from the start.

I keep reading about how great these things are but always with many caveats like: have lotso money for service and repairs, extra special knowledge required, engine transplants-r-us, seek out specialized service dudes, wrenching is your new friend so learn to wrench (you really like to wrench, right?), etc. I'm kind of playing there but there is truth to it and for me wouldn't be worth the headaches.

It's tough when you have a million people floating a million different options to you but reading back through your thread, you stated your main priority was reliability. The newest and least molested (modified) vehicle with service history as BigDaddy suggests would seem to be the most viable option.

 

[Cole]

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/4338809078.html

Like this one, a serious contender

Seriously, this one, the Sprinter, or one of the 1999+ Eurovans I posted! They are ALL a better choice than this particular Vanagon!!

 

[HoboJen]

i think they are saying with the exhaust it does not have the correct manifolds because of the swap and the shop says it should be entirely redone. i would question that his suggestion for a fix might not solve the problem and just break again. but i don't really know. i kinda trust the shop on this one but don't have anything to back it up.

 

[Cole]

Here is the link to the list of sold Vanagon Weekenders from GoWesty. http://www.gowesty.com/vehicle_sales_history.php

You can click on each one and see what kind of service they did to them to get them to those prices. There is the original purchase of the van and then the service and upgrades all included in those prices. (Lots of labor included in the prices) If you can't do the work yourself you will end up paying a shop to do much of it and this is what if could cost you.

The good thing is that the vans go up in value, much like the Eurovans. The bad thing is to "sort one out" that has been troublesome can be costly! I should also point about that on he the first page here (didn't look at the second one) there are zero vans older than 1986, they simply aren't as desirable. GoWesty also doesn't to suby swaps for some reason?!!

 

[Cole]

Just to be clear. If this van were 1986+ with original paint, that might be enough to change the deal, but it's not !!

 

[HoboJen]

well, he's gotten back to me again before i even replied since he can't get over what the shop was telling me. so here's some more info. yes, i am still considering this van despite all the advice to walk away....


I still couldn't get over what that shop was telling you, so I called
Small Car (who did the swap and has done most of the work on it).
They also disagree with them about the transmission needing to be
replaced, and they said a service would be around $150 (they said that
even if it goes out, you don't replace it, you rebuild it for much
less than what they quoted you). I asked about the exhaust and they
said they can replace the exaust themselves for way under $1000
including the manifold.

Chris (at SmallCar) and I decided that the best thing for me to do
would be to have them look at it. They are planning on doing a
transmission service (around $150, I was pleasantly surprised) and
take a look over everything else to see what they think. I found a
new headlight ($49 on Van Cafe) and probably have Small Car replace
that Fuel Filter as well, as Small Car seems to think the other place
might think it is going bad because the fuel filter is the old style
and that makes the pump a little louder.

I am taking the van into Small Car on Monday to have them do what I
just explained, and I also sent them a link to the ad. They said my
asking price sounded like the correct place to start. If you want,
you can wait for them to do their thing and use it as a second
opinion, and fix the transmission leak and look other things over.

A few other people have been emailing and asking questions. Just in
case you are still intersted in hearing answers to questions that you
haven't thought of asking, I will give a quick run down. Many
questions are about the dash and the skylight, but also people are
asking about the brakes and how hard it would be to find parts. This
is the Audi kit that is extremely common on Vanagons, and part numbers
are easily found online (there are many kits, but everyone uses the
same Audi parts for their kits), or simply calling Small Car and
asking them what part numbers are needed for replacements. Parts are
easy to find and less expensive than origional parts. Also, locks.
New lock cores would fix the locks, I'm not sure how much lock cores
are, but then that issue would be a non-issue. Air Conditioning-
could be put back in. The AC units in Vanagons don't work really
well, and the one that was in my van was bad so I took it out for the
space. A used one could be put back in, add new hoses, charge the
system and you are back in buisiness. They still don't work very well
though, because they are all the way in back and are too small for how
big the van is.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Here's my thoughts:

He seems genuinely willing to communicate. That's a good sign.
He did exactly what I would have requested, which is to back up his price estimates with a pro shop's input.
Looking back at the van's ad here: http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/4338382093.html , I have to say, it's a COOL van. I really do think it would be a very good platform for you for several reasons:

1. He's obviously tried his best to take care of it (which the mechanic you went to, confirmed)
2. It already has a very nice interior/sleep setup that you will be comfortable in
3. Vanagon's really do have a strong community and that's important to help solve issues. Brad and Sheena in Nacho, were on the Samba numerous times sorting out issues via the internet, and even worked out parts shipping down to where they were, as well as found recommendations for shops to help them.
4. Westy vanagons are very, very good stealth campers if need be. You don't have to pop the top, just tint the windows, draw the curtains, and you're all set.


One note about Go westy. They don't do subie swaps because they put out a 2.2 and a 2.5 "gowesty" motor. My dad has one in his Westy. It's an improvement over his original 2.1, but he's had his issues over the years and wished he'd just gone all in with a 2.2 or 2.5 subie swap. Also, their prices, are somewhat astronomical. Don't get me wrong. The vanagons that go through their shop are top notch when they're done with them, and people DO pay those prices, but I also think GoWesty is doing a fair bit of legwork to try and "barrett jackson" the Vanagon market for their own benefit. To me, a nice westy vanagon is a $10-20k car. A syncro adds maybe $5000. A syncro westy? maybe $30,000 tops. $100,000 Syncro-westy vanagons are just silly to me.

 

[Cole]

This doesn't change the facts that this van could be a major pain and expense in what should be a fun trip.

Just because the company that did the swap wants to "fix it" doesn't make it any easier to get it worked on while stranded in the middle of Utah or Nevada!!!

They may just be patching up bad work with bad work? Who knows which shop is right? Probably the one in the middle of Texas! Cause the will be your only choice:coffeedrink:

Lots of nice Vanagons out there if you are set on one. There are just so many reasons why this one is not for you.

Have you posted your plan and this question on TheSamba?

 

[Cole]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifi...sort=date&sort_order=DESC&submitButton=Search

 

[HoboJen]

Here's my thoughts:

He seems genuinely willing to communicate. That's a good sign.
He did exactly what I would have requested, which is to back up his price estimates with a pro shop's input.
Looking back at the van's ad here: http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/4338382093.html , I have to say, it's a COOL van. I really do think it would be a very good platform for you for several reasons:

1. He's obviously tried his best to take care of it (which the mechanic you went to, confirmed)
2. It already has a very nice interior/sleep setup that you will be comfortable in
3. Vanagon's really do have a strong community and that's important to help solve issues. Brad and Sheena in Nacho, were on the Samba numerous times sorting out issues via the internet, and even worked out parts shipping down to where they were, as well as found recommendations for shops to help them.
4. Westy vanagons are very, very good stealth campers if need be. You don't have to pop the top, just tint the windows, draw the curtains, and you're all set.


One note about Go westy. They don't do subie swaps because they put out a 2.2 and a 2.5 "gowesty" motor. My dad has one in his Westy. It's an improvement over his original 2.1, but he's had his issues over the years and wished he'd just gone all in with a 2.2 or 2.5 subie swap. Also, their prices, are somewhat astronomical. Don't get me wrong. The vanagons that go through their shop are top notch when they're done with them, and people DO pay those prices, but I also think GoWesty is doing a fair bit of legwork to try and "barrett jackson" the Vanagon market for their own benefit. To me, a nice westy vanagon is a $10-20k car. A syncro adds maybe $5000. A syncro westy? maybe $30,000 tops. $100,000 Syncro-westy vanagons are just silly to me.

thanks for your comment. appreciated.

 

[John W]

Just to be clear. If this van were 1986+ with original paint, that might be enough to change the deal, but it's not !!

Are the prices increasing because of scarcity, or because of actual value?

 

[Cole]

Are the prices increasing because of scarcity, or because of actual value?

I think its a combination of scarcity and value. The value is that the Vanagon and Eurovan are the only "car sized" RV in the USA.(my Eurovan for example is about 8" sorter in length than me Audi S6, and 3" narrower) You can park it in a normal garage, drive it to work daily, get in parking structures, etc. The closest thing to it "new" in the USA is a Sportsmobile conversion, starting at about $60-80k and going well above $100k. Even then the Sportsmobile is too big tow many people to want to drive daily.

The more modern the Vanagon or Eurovan the more valuable the get! (Unlike a classic car which the strict VW guys want you to believe) All the value is in the function, not the classic nature. That's why 4x4(syncro) full campers are worth the most, they do more!