Solid state batteries will make electric expedition vehicles practical.

DirtWhiskey

Western Dirt Rat
Mini-split heat-exchangers for air conditioning and more-efficient-heating than space-heaters, down to certain (getting even lower) temperatures, could benefit from high-capacity (and hopefully low cost) batteries.

Yes, I am well aware that a truck cap, propane stove (with 20 pound tank to avoid freezing as easily as the one-pound cans) and a super-insulated cooler (external insulation can work wonders) is a low cost way to travel. ... Leaving out cooler-bound ice-bottles to refreeze on cold nights (and sleeping with one’s water to prevent it freezing), or buying ice in warm areas. 😀

However, it seems to me that there are more and more fire bans (including propane stoves etc), and from what I have read recently about the hazards of burning propane inside, the induction burner does have my attention. 😀

True. Heat pumps, especially 12v inverter variable types, are amazing. We just outfitted our entire bar with heat pumps. Cold weather handling has improved greatly. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced 12v heat pump for our application?

I should disclose I am a fire enthusiast (borderline pyro?). I straight up don't like cooking on induction. Nothing like flame to get those maillard reactions. YMMV of course.
 

CappyJax

Member
True. Heat pumps, especially 12v inverter variable types, are amazing. We just outfitted our entire bar with heat pumps. Cold weather handling has improved greatly. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced 12v heat pump for our application?

I should disclose I am a fire enthusiast (borderline pyro?). I straight up don't like cooking on induction. Nothing like flame to get those maillard reactions. YMMV of course.
We had the brand new crappy loud AC on our EKKO replaced with one with a heat pump option and that thing is amazing. So nice not to use any gas at RV parks and we can even run it while driving to keep the house cool or warm for when we stop.

We also have a convection microwave that does good at browning when in convection mode. I grew up in the restaurant business and our family had a purist attitude about fire cooked food. In fact, the restaurants were called "The Flame". However, after learning of all the health effects of gas burning stoves, I made the switch to electric and I couldn't be happier. We can cook everything we do with a flame, but it is faster and much harder to overcook something with induction.

But if you have ICD and like to set things on fire, you might keep the gas stove so you don't move your fascination with fire to things that are more expensive. ;)
 

DirtWhiskey

Western Dirt Rat
We had the brand new crappy loud AC on our EKKO replaced with one with a heat pump option and that thing is amazing. So nice not to use any gas at RV parks and we can even run it while driving to keep the house cool or warm for when we stop.

We also have a convection microwave that does good at browning when in convection mode. I grew up in the restaurant business and our family had a purist attitude about fire cooked food. In fact, the restaurants were called "The Flame". However, after learning of all the health effects of gas burning stoves, I made the switch to electric and I couldn't be happier. We can cook everything we do with a flame, but it is faster and much harder to overcook something with induction.

But if you have ICD and like to set things on fire, you might keep the gas stove so you don't move your fascination with fire to things that are more expensive. ;)

Haha. I own an Izakaya. Japanese and Korean food. We have woks. 250k-350k btu per burner baby. 20-30 nozzles per pan. Cooking is about controlling carmalizarion. I see the merits of induction in a camping environment for people who choose to do so. I do not and will never. Most of my cooking is live fire over wood/coals unless there's a fire ban. But yeah induction will never replace gas in a commercial environment. Ever.

Edit: can you share the make/model of your heat pump?
 
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CappyJax

Member
Haha. I own an Izakaya. Japanese and Korean food. We have woks. 250k-350k btu per burner baby. 20-30 nozzles per pan. Cooking is about controlling carmalizarion. I see the merits of induction in a camping environment for people who choose to do so. I do not and will never. Most of my cooking is live fire over wood/coals unless there's a fire ban. But yeah induction will never replace gas in a commercial environment. Ever.

Edit: can you share the make/model of your heat pump?

We have an Eco-cool by Premier. It is a Gree unit. AC, Heat pump, and dehumidifier in one. It is very quiet compared to the stock GE one, and it uses about 1,200W compared to 1,800W from the GE. It is also marketed as an Atmos and a Tosot.


We have considered starting a restaurant and had no trouble finding commercial induction cooktops. It would be much different than the type of restaurant I grew up in as it would be far healthier. The thing we discovered is that the induction cooktops could boil water in 1/4th the time it takes gas to boil water. We even looked at induction cooktops that are contoured to the wok. There really is nothing you can't cook with induction that you can with gas. And many new commercial kitchens are built with electric stoves, ovens, and cooktops because of the health hazards of gas cooking. And the big thing is that it is much much easier to teach someone to cook with induction because you can give them an actual temperature of the pan to target rather than requiring them to develop the experience to judge the temp of a pan over an open flame.
 

DirtWhiskey

Western Dirt Rat
We have an Eco-cool by Premier. It is a Gree unit. AC, Heat pump, and dehumidifier in one. It is very quiet compared to the stock GE one, and it uses about 1,200W compared to 1,800W from the GE. It is also marketed as an Atmos and a Tosot.


We have considered starting a restaurant and had no trouble finding commercial induction cooktops. It would be much different than the type of restaurant I grew up in as it would be far healthier. The thing we discovered is that the induction cooktops could boil water in 1/4th the time it takes gas to boil water. We even looked at induction cooktops that are contoured to the wok. There really is nothing you can't cook with induction that you can with gas. And many new commercial kitchens are built with electric stoves, ovens, and cooktops because of the health hazards of gas cooking. And the big thing is that it is much much easier to teach someone to cook with induction because you can give them an actual temperature of the pan to target rather than requiring them to develop the experience to judge the temp of a pan over an open flame.

Thanks for the deets Cappyjax. Bookmarked for future use. We have an old Coleman roof unit. Works fine but gobbles power.

We got to demo some induction woks at the Mutual Trading Company tradeshow in Pasadena this year. Chef/partner who is Korean, was, er, not excited. Not was anybody else. Restaurant cooking unfortunately isn't about energy efficiency. It's about kicking stuff out in volume at a high quality. A single equivalent induction wok would draw something close to 75kw PER HEAD. We have four heads. It requires 3 phase power, a new transformer outside etc., line mods, wild Nema waterproof outlets. I mean it could easily cost $100k. Just not practical
 

1000arms

Well-known member
True. Heat pumps, especially 12v inverter variable types, are amazing. We just outfitted our entire bar with heat pumps. Cold weather handling has improved greatly. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced 12v heat pump for our application?

I should disclose I am a fire enthusiast (borderline pyro?). I straight up don't like cooking on induction. Nothing like flame to get those maillard reactions. YMMV of course.
Unfortunately I don’t have any suggestions regarding a specific heat pump for you.

If one has an electric system capable of powering an induction burner, and cooks with pots/pans that can be used on an induction burner, one might consider bringing a countertop induction burner along for fire bans. Doing so wouldn’t be much of an expense compared to the electric system needed to power it.

Fire can be a wonderful tool. 😀
 

2025 deleted member

Well-known member
I'm sorry? Did you say charging from 10% to 100% would cost over $432 and get 1,000 miles? That's $216 for 500 miles

No doubt I'm missing the point here, but call me when the cost isn't two and three times what it cost me now. Then, THEN, I'll be excited.

This brings to mind all the fuss made of so called private space ventures - with ex NASA engineers and astronauts - flew up into the sky real high for a minute. Now they want to go to the moon...Damn, we did that 50 and 60 years ago. Lemme know when something consequential happens.
Some stuff is just mind boggling. I sat in an engineering class last week that was pushing heat pump equipment for domestic water heating with electric back up to quote “decarbonize” the building- I about fell out of my chair when they said they installed gas generators outside to meet the increased demand..😆
 

ThundahBeagle

Well-known member
Yeah, just go nuclear already. We're going to go back to it eventually.
Um...no. I hope not. The environmentalists back in the day would roll over in their graves that the environmentalists today are advocating this, when it was everything they could do to get plants shut down in the 80', 90's and 00's.

It's not that it doesn't produce enough power or anything like that. We've seen what one stupid mistake costs when it comes to nuclear energy, and we've seen it at least twice. Keep working on solar and wind and geothermal.
 

Jupiter58

Well-known member
Um...no. I hope not. The environmentalists back in the day would roll over in their graves that the environmentalists today are advocating this, when it was everything they could do to get plants shut down in the 80', 90's and 00's.

It's not that it doesn't produce enough power or anything like that. We've seen what one stupid mistake costs when it comes to nuclear energy, and we've seen it at least twice. Keep working on solar and wind and geothermal.

I believe we had this discussion before. What when and where was that ‘one’ stupid mistake? How many deaths or how much environmental damage has been done anywhere in the US from commercial nuclear power plants??
Do you have any facts???
 

ThundahBeagle

Well-known member
I believe we had this discussion before. What when and where was that ‘one’ stupid mistake? How many deaths or how much environmental damage has been done anywhere in the US from commercial nuclear power plants??
Do you have any facts???
Three Mile Island reactor 2 (1979). The subsequent restart of reactor 1 was mind boggling.

Half the locations near and downwind of test sites in Nevada, Bimini Island, etc.

Closing of Yankee Row, Elk River, Fermi 1, Three Mile Island 1 (2019) and any number of other nuclear power stations across the country. For what reasons exactly?

Chernobyl at Pripyat (1986). Not US but had far reaching effects beyond the Soviet border. See anybody living in that zone yet?

Fukushima 2011. Three reactor meltdowns after a tsunami and resultant radiation into the ocean that causes the FDA to have to check food imported from that region for radionuclides to this day.

It's really kind of up to the nuclear industry to prove to people it is safe technology. Not for supposed environmentalists to simply state that it is green, when at one point, it was considered the bane of environmentalists everywhere. Tell me, what changed? How is nuclear is all of a sudden considered safe?

You tell me.
 

ThundahBeagle

Well-known member
I believe we had this discussion before. What when and where was that ‘one’ stupid mistake? How many deaths or how much environmental damage has been done anywhere in the US from commercial nuclear power plants??
Do you have any facts???
Three Mile Island reactor 2 (meltdown 1979)

Half the locations near and downwind of test sites in Nevada, Bimini Island, etc.

Closing Yankee Row (safety 1991) , Elk River (leaks, 1968, Fermi 1(partial meltdown 1966, closed 1972), Three Mile Island 1 (2019 no more subsidy) and any number of other nuclear power stations across the country. For what reasons exactly?

Chernobyl at Pripyat (1986). Not US but had far reaching effects beyond the Soviet border.

It's really kind of up to the nuclear industry to prove to people it is safe technology. Not for supposed environmentalists to simply state that it is green, when at one point, it was considered the bane of environmentalists everywhere. Tell me, what changed? How is nuclear safe now?
 

ThundahBeagle

Well-known member
I believe we had this discussion before. What when and where was that ‘one’ stupid mistake? How many deaths or how much environmental damage has been done anywhere in the US from commercial nuclear power plants??
Do you have any facts???

If you know what equipment was handed out in the aftermath of Thee Mile, for the purpose of collecting information on how much radiation had leaked, then you know it was insufficient. It's easy not to see a broken bone when you dont run an x-ray, you can say there are no confirmed broken bones.

That's how they operated at 3-mile in 79. Cancer rates in that area? Him "undetermined cause." But on the Nuclear event scale it's a 5 out of 7 but somehow no deaths directly attributed...

Okay. Hang your hat on that. Phillip Morris, but Gundersen was an expert witness in that investigation and said the government numbers were off by a factor off 100 up to 1000. So his contributions towards the Kemeny Report are conveniently forgotten.

How may died as a result of Chernobyl? A handful, maybe, in the blast. 30 or so within a month or so. 5,000 thyroid cancer cases, 10,000 or so cancer fatalities in the are and a couple of neighboring countries nearby.
 

Jupiter58

Well-known member
Three Mile Island reactor 2 (1979). The subsequent restart of reactor 1 was mind boggling.

Half the locations near and downwind of test sites in Nevada, Bimini Island, etc.

Closing of Yankee Row, Elk River, Fermi 1, Three Mile Island 1 (2019) and any number of other nuclear power stations across the country. For what reasons exactly?

Chernobyl at Pripyat (1986). Not US but had far reaching effects beyond the Soviet border. See anybody living in that zone yet?

Fukushima 2011. Three reactor meltdowns after a tsunami and resultant radiation into the ocean that causes the FDA to have to check food imported from that region for radionuclides to this day.

It's really kind of up to the nuclear industry to prove to people it is safe technology. Not for supposed environmentalists to simply state that it is green, when at one point, it was considered the bane of environmentalists everywhere. Tell me, what changed? How is nuclear is all of a sudden considered safe?

You tell me.

TMI is the only applicable one. The others are either not commercial or not in the USA.
There was not just ‘one’ event that caused that. There are plenty of detailed reports on that if you wish to read any of them. The last time we had this discussion I linked numerous articles from town, county, state, federal and private organizations with studies over decades that state there was no evidence of any environmental or health damage to anything or anyone. No one died, no one was injured , no short or long term effects.
The plant closures were simply ones of economics, they could not get a purchase power agreement that made it profitable to run those sites.
There are several which are being evaluated to be restarted simply because large data centers are being proposed nearby specifically because they want to buy the power from these plants and the current grid will not support it. They will remove any impact from the grid and make them economically feasible.

Again, what do any of those other situations have to do with commercial nuclear power in the USA????
Chernobyl was a design that has been outlawed in the USA since Jimmy Carter was president and in every western country at about the same time except the Soviet Union. Which violated everyone of their own processes and procedures resulting in the meltdown.

Fukushima had no or inadequate processes or equipment in place to protect the plant from that event. Seems silly doesn’t it???
All US plants had equipment and processes in place to respond to an event like that and since have doubled and tripled down on them.
These original US plants have operated for decades safely and have proven themselves. Anything that happens anywhere in the world to a plant is dissected and analyzed. If there is a design or process that needs to be changed or implemented it is codified by the NRC and becomes a legal requirement to be implemented with a definitive timeline.

The new AP 1000,’s (2 of which are operating in Georgia and another half dozen or so around the world) have significantly reduced the amount of operator actions and redundant safety equipment required. Amazing designs. I just left a contract working on those units scheduling out their first refuelings. I had to become very familiar with their design and their operating license requirements as I was tasked with laying out a plan for taking those systems out of service and performing required maintenance and surveillances (basically verifying they will operate correctly when required.)
I am not licensed to operate an AP 1000 but I dug into the design and requirements and worked with licensed operators to get the plan approved. Nothing like that goes anywhere without senior licensees approval.
Every day, whether operational or shutdown, a risk analysis is performed to ensure the plant is in a safe condition to operate or protect the fuel. And that is re-evaluated anytime any condition changes.

It is also unlikely they will be doing atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons in anyone’s neighborhood. Unless it is from some foreign entity.
 
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Jupiter58

Well-known member

That is something isn’t it??? Who would have thought those companies would be proposing new nuclear plants?
Unfortunately, data centers require lots of reliable power 24 hours a day 365 days a year and unless you go gas or coal nuclear is the only viable option.
It is important to note that these companies will be taking on some financial risk for building these.
First, none of these designs have ever operated. It is going to be very expensive to build the first dozen or so.
They may get to the point where they are economically feasible for larger utilities to build them, but at this time they will not get a return on their investment unless someone outside provides financial incentives.
 

ThundahBeagle

Well-known member
TMI is the only applicable one. The others are either not commercial or not in the USA.
There was not just ‘one’ event that caused that. There are plenty of detailed reports on that if you wish to read any of them. The last time we had this discussion I linked numerous articles from town, county, state, federal and private organizations with studies over decades that state there was no evidence of any environmental or health damage to anything or anyone. No one died, no one was injured , no short or long term effects.
The plant closures were simply ones of economics, they could not get a purchase power agreement that made it profitable to run those sites.
There are several which are being evaluated to be restarted simply because large data centers are being proposed nearby specifically because they want to buy the power from these plants and the current grid will not support it. They will remove any impact from the grid and make them economically feasible.

Again, what do any of those other situations have to do with commercial nuclear power in the USA????
Chernobyl was a design that has been outlawed in the USA since Jimmy Carter was president and in every western country at about the same time except the Soviet Union. Which violated everyone of their own processes and procedures resulting in the meltdown.

Fukushima had no or inadequate processes or equipment in place to protect the plant from that event. Seems silly doesn’t it???
All US plants had equipment and processes in place to respond to an event like that and since have doubled and tripled down on them.
These original US plants have operated for decades safely and have proven themselves. Anything that happens anywhere in the world to a plant is dissected and analyzed. If there is a design or process that needs to be changed or implemented it is codified by the NRC and becomes a legal requirement to be implemented with a definitive timeline.

The new AP 1000,’s (2 of which are operating in Georgia and another half dozen or so around the world) have significantly reduced the amount of operator actions and redundant safety equipment required. Amazing designs. I just left a contract working on those units scheduling out their first refuelings. I had to become very familiar with their design and their operating license requirements as I was tasked with laying out a plan for taking those systems out of service and performing required maintenance and surveillances (basically verifying they will operate correctly when required.)
I am not licensed to operate an AP 1000 but I dug into the design and requirements and worked with licensed operators to get the plan approved. Nothing like that goes anywhere without senior licensees approval.
Every day, whether operational or shutdown, a risk analysis is performed to ensure the plant is in a safe condition to operate or protect the fuel. And that is re-evaluated anytime any condition changes.

It is also unlikely they will be doing atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons in anyone’s neighborhood. Unless it is from some foreign entity.

I see what you are writing. I have no reason to disbelieve you per se. Seems like you are in the industry and I am not. Call it a product of growing up in the 70's and 80's if you want, but I just cant seem to think Nuclear is safe. Maybe very few bad things happen, but when they do, it can affect an area for well past our lifetime.

What is the worst that happens when other power plants "blow"? Just the consequences dont seem as bad as the worst possible scenario of a Nuclear plant problem
 

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