STAY AWAY from ALCAN SPRING!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter alaskacreeker
- Start date
txflyyaker
Observer
I don't get it either, please explain to me why one could not post this as their first??????????????????
Mountainhound
Explorer
No I don't so why dont you explain it to me. I think it's you that don't get it. 1 post or 1,000 who cares, well obviously many. Now if he had posted and ran sure just a troll. But as far as I am concerned he is a customer that had a horrible experaince with a company and is letting the world (literally) know it.
Op called ordered they sent what obviously what was wrong op in his disgust and frustration sent the springs which were made wrong back, they alcan springs is using well you didn't call first as an excuse not to honor there product. To me thats just not right and deserves what they get. And with todays socail media it's not just complaining to your friends and neighbors its comming to places like this that are going to hurt even more. You know I find it funny how so many are willing to jump on him for this and give alcan a pass.
sleeoffroad
Adventurer
I am not taking sides here, but want to point some things out from a business point. We have been in the same position before where a customer chose to send something back before we authorized it. The reason a business wants to authorize the return is to make sure that A) they have the correct information to remedy the situation (in this case more measurements, weights etc), B) installer error is ruled out, C) explore a better way to resolve the issue vs shipping heavy springs back and forth.
Alcan was not given this opportunity at all. How are they supposed to fix the springs now. Also the OP stated he wanted 2" of lift. What prior measurement was this based on? Stock on a very old, highly custom vehicle? It is unlikely Alcan had info on this truck in their database to have "stock spring specs" so everything would have had to be done on the weight of the vehicle.
Is the real issue here that the truck leaned, or that the OP did not get the lift he expected? In both cases, for Alcan to correct the springs, they would have needed more info and I can see the owners frustration as to how he is expected to correct the issue with no further info.
If fixing the springs was not an option, then a consumer should always check with the supplier before sending something back for a full credit. Suggesting a CC dispute is wrong. It will not work. Having gone down this road as well. If the consumer does not follow the vendors return policies, the CC company will not agree to the charge back. It will take months to resolve but in the end if you want to g othat route, be sure your side of the aisle is clean and you have all your i dotted and t crossed.
Did Alcan make the wrong springs, who knows. We are not privy to what was exchanged in the beginning. What 10 years in the business has thought me is there is always 2 sides to the complaint. If they knowingly or unknowingly made a mistake in the spring specs, they should have been given the chance to correct it. They were not given this chance.
There is lessons to be learned for everyone in this. Unfortunately at other peoples expense. When you order something custom, document everything in writing. Don't assume anything. Make sure you ask all the questions, even the question "Do you need anything more from me!". And more than anything, when ordering, make sure you are comfortable with a companies return/refund policy.
Alcan was not given this opportunity at all. How are they supposed to fix the springs now. Also the OP stated he wanted 2" of lift. What prior measurement was this based on? Stock on a very old, highly custom vehicle? It is unlikely Alcan had info on this truck in their database to have "stock spring specs" so everything would have had to be done on the weight of the vehicle.
Is the real issue here that the truck leaned, or that the OP did not get the lift he expected? In both cases, for Alcan to correct the springs, they would have needed more info and I can see the owners frustration as to how he is expected to correct the issue with no further info.
If fixing the springs was not an option, then a consumer should always check with the supplier before sending something back for a full credit. Suggesting a CC dispute is wrong. It will not work. Having gone down this road as well. If the consumer does not follow the vendors return policies, the CC company will not agree to the charge back. It will take months to resolve but in the end if you want to g othat route, be sure your side of the aisle is clean and you have all your i dotted and t crossed.
Did Alcan make the wrong springs, who knows. We are not privy to what was exchanged in the beginning. What 10 years in the business has thought me is there is always 2 sides to the complaint. If they knowingly or unknowingly made a mistake in the spring specs, they should have been given the chance to correct it. They were not given this chance.
There is lessons to be learned for everyone in this. Unfortunately at other peoples expense. When you order something custom, document everything in writing. Don't assume anything. Make sure you ask all the questions, even the question "Do you need anything more from me!". And more than anything, when ordering, make sure you are comfortable with a companies return/refund policy.
Mountainhound
Explorer
Thank you for a well written post Christo definitly puts things into better perspective. I think emotion has played into alot of post at least into mine. Hate seeing someone get beat upon.
redthies
Renaissance Redneck
I agree with Mountainhound. I still think "akcrkr" should modify his thread title to at least remove the "!!!&#£&?$!!!". It doesn't add any weight to his argument. In fact I think it does the opposite.
I know some big companies like IBM or Xerox might HAVE to work with an R.A. (return authorization) system due to global market, size of products, accounting etc, but a little podunk spring shop whose owner is actually available to speak with on the phone, can clearly handle the pressure of taking back a set of springs without an RA. The OP has admitted his mistakes, and the shop could maybe do some PR work.
I also (as mentioned earlier) had the pleasure of meeting the OP and seeing his awesome moho firsthand. I can certify that he is human and does not have a beard to his waist and a pointy hat like trolls do!
Golly, I sure hope my post count is high enough to post my thoughts!:costumed-smiley-007
I know some big companies like IBM or Xerox might HAVE to work with an R.A. (return authorization) system due to global market, size of products, accounting etc, but a little podunk spring shop whose owner is actually available to speak with on the phone, can clearly handle the pressure of taking back a set of springs without an RA. The OP has admitted his mistakes, and the shop could maybe do some PR work.
I also (as mentioned earlier) had the pleasure of meeting the OP and seeing his awesome moho firsthand. I can certify that he is human and does not have a beard to his waist and a pointy hat like trolls do!
Golly, I sure hope my post count is high enough to post my thoughts!:costumed-smiley-007
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David Harris
Expedition Leader
Those are good reasons for getting an RMA, and the OP has admitted his error on this point. However, the fact still remains that the springs don't work and Alcan has both them and the money. This is an unacceptable conclusion in my view. Alcan should do what they can to remedy the problem, especially as the OP paid to return the springs and has offered to pay to have the repaired ones shipped back. The OP is meeting Alcan halfway and Alcan should at least try to do the same, instead of slamming the door in his face.
Besides, Christo, don't you agree as a vendor that regardless of the details, Alcan is potentially losing thousands in business over this as we speak. Isn't this far more of a cost than just fixing the damned springs for this guy?
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Mountainhound
Explorer
Thats my problem with this whole thing too, alcan is out nothing except making the springs properly.
sleeoffroad
Adventurer
The RMA procedure is there to make sure that someone contacts the supplier before taking action on their own. Not just to get a number and assist in getting things routed correctly when they come in. We have issued RMA numbers and then 8 months later get the items back. That is against our policies, but imagine if we did not have record of why something was return and what the action should be, if we try to remember 8 months back what the issue was.
I agree that Alcan should / could fix the springs out of goodwill. The shipping snafu is on the customer. Alcan should not have to deal with the shipping both ways, if they could have resolved it by shipping one set of additional leaves in the first place.
The issue is how do they fix it? I am also not sure if this was just rear springs, or rear and front. Maybe that is where the issue was. They built a set of springs for a 7000lbs truck, but just the rear, assuming the front would have matching springs to help in the load carrying. Based on the $'s quoted, it looks like it only was 2 springs ($680). Also not sure if that motorhome has torsion bars in the front or leaf springs.
They don't have any information on how to correct the springs. So I would say that if the OP can give them accurate weights, then they can attempt to make a new set and the customer can pay to get send them back on the customers $. Did the OP obtain pre and post spring install measurements. All we have is that it does not hold my truck up and it leans. If the OP was aware of a considerable difference in how the camper is set up inside, then he should have volunteered that information. All these things could have been addressed when it was on the lift in the first place.
If the OP does not want that, then anything Alcan does on a refund is out of goodwill. Yes, they can loose a lot in goodwill, but a company also has policies and especially so when dealing with custom springs. This might be a case where they feel they did everything right, and the customer not and they don't want to set a president with returns on custom items without their approval. Kinda like lawyers that use previous cases to make their arguments.
ExpoMike
Well-known member
I agree the Alcan has policies in place and a return should have been called before being sent back. The OP admits to this mistake and I am sure has learned from it.
I also feel that the OP does not know much about suspensions, springs and associated parts. He has admitted he would not know what measurements he should have had, which he really should have researched before ever making a call to order springs but not everyone has the luxury of researching. Alcan should have asked for all of these measurements at the time of the orignal call to order.
I also cannot believe that Alcan would have made a set of custom springs without things like axle weights, ride height pre-lift and any other needed info. If they did, they are 100% at fault as they should require this for any "non stock" type spring. If the OP just called up and said give me some Toyota springs with a 2" lift and that is what was shipped, then the OP is at fault for not specifying his intended needs/use.
Without knowing 100% of both sides, it is hard to know what is fact or not. I really find it hard to think Alcan did not require weights and measurements before building these. I know National Spring required this and since I was local, had me bring the rig out and they did measurements onsite. Had I not has these, they would not have built me a set of springs, period.
I also feel that the OP does not know much about suspensions, springs and associated parts. He has admitted he would not know what measurements he should have had, which he really should have researched before ever making a call to order springs but not everyone has the luxury of researching. Alcan should have asked for all of these measurements at the time of the orignal call to order.
I also cannot believe that Alcan would have made a set of custom springs without things like axle weights, ride height pre-lift and any other needed info. If they did, they are 100% at fault as they should require this for any "non stock" type spring. If the OP just called up and said give me some Toyota springs with a 2" lift and that is what was shipped, then the OP is at fault for not specifying his intended needs/use.
Without knowing 100% of both sides, it is hard to know what is fact or not. I really find it hard to think Alcan did not require weights and measurements before building these. I know National Spring required this and since I was local, had me bring the rig out and they did measurements onsite. Had I not has these, they would not have built me a set of springs, period.
Clutch
<---Pass
Wondering if that is indeed the case, and just saying they are custom because they are aftermarket. I could say the same thing about
my suspension, it is custom since it isn't stock...however it is not specifically made for my personal truck. Just off the shelf components.
Because if Alcan is refusing to fix the problem there is a good reason. They have been in business for an awfully long time, with a lot of
happy customers. One guy not happy wouldn't make me not purchase from them.
alaskacreeker
New member
Sorry for not responding to the comments of adding a dually rear axle to my motorhome. I just didn't want to get off subject and that is not something I can do anytime in the near future. The dually axles actually had way more problems than the single axle like I own.
I'd like to thank everyone for their input on this situation, whether it be agreement or criticism. I'm not sure why Alcan did not ask me all the proper questions for building the springs, maybe they just assumed the motorhome wasn't much different than the Toyota pickup? I supplied them with all of the information I was asked, which wasn't much at all. Maybe they were in a hurry that day and made quick assumptions, I honestly don't know. All I know is that when the mechanic in LA saw the springs, he said "those are way to light to be on this motorhome, they look like normal truck springs."
Alcan said they can't sell the springs to someone else because they are built for a heavy motorhome (so I'm not sure why they didn't hold the rig up at all). The main issue wasn't the lift, it was the extreme tilt and then the lack of lift. The drivers side springs were actually sagging (negative arch) the second they were put on, without even a test drive. The passenger side springs were completely flat, no arch at all (so they were sitting a little higher, but no where near where they were supposed to be sitting). The motorhome is a little heavier on the drivers side, although only 300 lbs, which should not be enough weight to cause the degree of tilt the motorhome was experiencing.
Anyway, I feel like all of this is besides the point. I made an honest mistake of not calling Alcan before sending the springs back, but I paid the shipping. They made the mistake of not collecting the proper information (rear axle weight, side-to-side weight, current ride height measurements, etc). I would have provided them with this information if I had known how to build leaf springs at the time, but Alcan were the experts, not me. I actually have a pretty extensive knowledge of building 4wd vehicles (used to build Samurai's & founded a Suzuki Samuari off-road club), but springs (besides adding add-a-leafs) are one thing I've never really dealt with. This was my first pair of custom springs. Alcan knows about this forum thread, so maybe they will respond.
I'd like to thank everyone for their input on this situation, whether it be agreement or criticism. I'm not sure why Alcan did not ask me all the proper questions for building the springs, maybe they just assumed the motorhome wasn't much different than the Toyota pickup? I supplied them with all of the information I was asked, which wasn't much at all. Maybe they were in a hurry that day and made quick assumptions, I honestly don't know. All I know is that when the mechanic in LA saw the springs, he said "those are way to light to be on this motorhome, they look like normal truck springs."
Alcan said they can't sell the springs to someone else because they are built for a heavy motorhome (so I'm not sure why they didn't hold the rig up at all). The main issue wasn't the lift, it was the extreme tilt and then the lack of lift. The drivers side springs were actually sagging (negative arch) the second they were put on, without even a test drive. The passenger side springs were completely flat, no arch at all (so they were sitting a little higher, but no where near where they were supposed to be sitting). The motorhome is a little heavier on the drivers side, although only 300 lbs, which should not be enough weight to cause the degree of tilt the motorhome was experiencing.
Anyway, I feel like all of this is besides the point. I made an honest mistake of not calling Alcan before sending the springs back, but I paid the shipping. They made the mistake of not collecting the proper information (rear axle weight, side-to-side weight, current ride height measurements, etc). I would have provided them with this information if I had known how to build leaf springs at the time, but Alcan were the experts, not me. I actually have a pretty extensive knowledge of building 4wd vehicles (used to build Samurai's & founded a Suzuki Samuari off-road club), but springs (besides adding add-a-leafs) are one thing I've never really dealt with. This was my first pair of custom springs. Alcan knows about this forum thread, so maybe they will respond.
David Harris
Expedition Leader
The OP told them what they were for, and Alcan has admitted this, if I am reading the posts correctly. The only issue is the lack of a phone call, it seems. Which is puzzling, I admit. Also, according to the posts on one of the other forums, others have had problems with sagging springs from Alcan. They didn't say how those situations had turned out though.
One thing is for sure, if I ordered springs from Alcan after this, I would ask for a guarantee in writing that if they didn't work, Alcan would be responsible for fixing them and all extra shipping charges involved, or I wouldn't do business with them. There are plenty of other spring companies out there, and it would probably be best to go local in a case like this anyway, if possible.
Clutch
<---Pass
Alaskacreeker:
Did you fill out their order form, or just call the shop?
http://alcanspring.com/order.htm
Has Alcan told their side of the story on any of the forums?
Did you fill out their order form, or just call the shop?
http://alcanspring.com/order.htm
Has Alcan told their side of the story on any of the forums?