Supertramp Flagship LT pop-up slide-in pickup camper

[SimplyAnAdventure]

Is that AC with only a 15A controller? Size of the battery bank? Is there a charger hooked up to the alternator too?

If it's actually hot and you are parked for awhile, AC will need a massive solar/battery system to keep you cool. There have been no great breakthroughs in compressor efficiency lately, and the laws of physics have not been repealed. That's why most people who like to camp in the boonies in summer, opt for high altitude... or at least camp in the shade... and don't bother with AC. It's just too much expense, weight, and space to be viable.

I did some heating tests on my rig, and it's about 18 W/F in the first 24hrs. So 20 deg F temperature delta (inside vs out) is 360W. It's pretty well insulated though with 1.5" foam and no bridging, and sealed. AC would take ~150W to produce the same 20F delta. The big 5,000Wh battery would last 33 hrs. I just wonder what the use case is that makes carrying all this around in a small rig sensible. Won't you be outside during the day? Won't it cool off at night anyway? If not, then why didn't you go somewhere else?

Well for me AC is about options. This is a DC Air conditioner that draws 19A (DC) in eco mode so with my 400Ah of battle born batteries it can run all night without struggle. It’s not meant to be like an RV air conditioner where you sit inside all day and watch tv it’s meant to be used to cool the camper down when needed and for sleeping.

As for going into higher elevations, moving to cooler spots ect…. Of course and if that’s an option that what anyone would do. Truly that a very easy option in the mountain west. But let’s say you’re camping in South Carolina…. Or maybe TX. Humidity is the killer even more so than heat but also scorching SW heat can be pretty punishing.

Air conditioning isn’t for everyone but I didn’t want to build my dream camper just to cut a few corners and make it almost what I wanted. It’s extremely efficient and if I absolutely had to I have a Honda 2200i converted to propane that can power my 45A charger and keep the AC going indefinitely.

As far as expense, weight, and space…. It was about $5000 to add and air conditioner, I had the batteries already spec’d but at retail 4 battle born batteries are about $4000, it weighs 78 lbs, and space…. Well it’s in the roof so no space lost and it’s only about 3” higher than the fan on the back. Idk, I guess it’s not for everyone which is why it’s optional…. Those of us on the East Coast where it’s humid or those poor souls in South TX or Florida are certainly going to opt for it as well, if air conditioning isn’t for you than why worry about it, personally I’m super excited to have it as an option for those times I need it. Hell it’s only money.

This is one of the biggest reasons I opted for a full size HD Truck. After years of worrying about every pound I added to my little Toyota I now have 4214lbs of available payload so adding 78lbs of comfort isn’t even a thought to me. To each his own but sometimes I’d rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.


FWIW so far there is nothing I don’t love about this setup!

 

[Chadx]

... I just wonder what the use case is that makes carrying all this around in a small rig sensible. Won't you be outside during the day? Won't it cool off at night anyway? If not, then why didn't you go somewhere else?

Kind of a personal choice thing. Not really anything to do with smaller camper size. Similarly, some people build small homes with extremely high end trims. Some build huge homes with extremely low end finishes. Both homes might cost exactly the same in the end and each owner built it to suit their needs or wants

Wouldn't your same question apply to a camper heater as well? Why have heat when you can just camp someplace, or a time of year that doesn't need heat? One answer is comfort. Another is...comfort. Most move to campers, from tents and camping hammocks, for comfort. Varying levels of that come with camper appliances and accessories.

There are shell campers that aren't much more than a permanently setup tent. Add a battery and some lights. Convenient having lights and recharging things. Add some solar to keep it topped up. Nice. Add water tank and water pump. How about a water heater to make hot water for washing hands, dishes and a shower. Add heater for more comfort in cold seasons and to get more useable days out of your camper. Roof vents to flow some air. Add fans to those vents to move even more air. Add an A/C to be comfortable in even hotter environments.

The nice thing is there are all levels of rigs to cover the buyers's needed use cases. Be that bare-bones or over the top luxury (who needs marble countertops, expensive hand-made hardwood cabinetry, porcelain toilet, dishwasher, or clothes washer to camp? No one, but some want it so there are rigs that have it).

I'm personally not ordering with rooftop A/C, but to answer your questions...

Won't you be outside during the day?

Not if they aren't. Kind of a snarky answer, but accurate. Ha. Some of these users are working and/or fulltiming and will be in their rig during the day and find themselves in hot environments.

Won't it cool off at night anyway?

There are many places that don't cool off at night. And everyone's definition of cooling off is different. Cool to some is cooling down from 100F to 80F. 80F to me is "can't sleep hot". Tolerable, but warm, to me is 70F. Cool off to comfortable to me is 60F. And I'd rather camp in 20F to 50F any day of the week compared to 70F to 90F.

If not, then why didn't you go somewhere else?

For general planning, we do plan trips to areas during times of the years that typically have night time temps that are comfortable to us. But part of our limiting destinations is because we don't have A/C. If we didn't have heat, same story. More limitations. Some owners don't want to be limited to certain times of year and certain locations.

One or two day local trips can be canceled if weather/temps change, but week long trips are planned well in advance and we go no matter what. It might be average temps, unseasonably hot or unseasonably cold. We've been in Moab, UT in April where it snowed on us one day and two days later it was over 90F. Weather happens. Having heater and A/C in a camper are options for those that want it and make things more comfortable. Same as having power, running water, built in cooktop, etc.

 

[rruff]

Wouldn't your same question apply to a camper heater as well? Why have heat when you can just camp someplace, or a time of year that doesn't need heat?

I've actually never used heat, beyond a couple candles, and the body heat of two people. But I could add more heat quite cheaply and simply, and it would be portable. I see the real need for heat for people who like to ski and camp in the snow, or hunt, etc. Bundling up during the day in winter is comfortable enough, but you need to keep warm at night when it's really cold.

I'm just curious, really. It's the "over 50% are ordering AC" that threw me, as the hardware needed to make that viable in a small camper seems like a lot, so I'd expect the demand to be small. I figure if it's too hot to sleep at night with good ventilation, surely it was too hot during the day to do anything outside? I was trying to think of a common situation where that wasn't the case, and couldn't. But southern beaches in summer would stay pretty hot at night, and the water would be nice during the day. And as you said, if there is an unexpected heatwave, AC would be very nice to have regardless. Or if you just live in an area where it's very hot in summer with no relief near, it would be good to have. For someone living/working in their rig who needs to stay in a particular area, they'd need to be well prepared for extremes.

Of course anyone can do as they like, and if you can manage to have all the comforts of home, then why not?

Good post, thank you for taking the time!

 

[SimplyAnAdventure]

Kind of a personal choice thing. Not really anything to do with smaller camper size. Similarly, some people build small homes with extremely high end trims. Some build huge homes with extremely low end finishes. Both homes might cost exactly the same in the end and each owner built it to suit their needs or wants

Wouldn't your same question apply to a camper heater as well? Why have heat when you can just camp someplace, or a time of year that doesn't need heat? One answer is comfort. Another is...comfort. Most move to campers, from tents and camping hammocks, for comfort. Varying levels of that come with camper appliances and accessories.

There are shell campers that aren't much more than a permanently setup tent. Add a battery and some lights. Convenient having lights and recharging things. Add some solar to keep it topped up. Nice. Add water tank and water pump. How about a water heater to make hot water for washing hands, dishes and a shower. Add heater for more comfort in cold seasons and to get more useable days out of your camper. Roof vents to flow some air. Add fans to those vents to move even more air. Add an A/C to be comfortable in even hotter environments.

The nice thing is there are all levels of rigs to cover the buyers's needed use cases. Be that bare-bones or over the top luxury (who needs marble countertops, expensive hand-made hardwood cabinetry, porcelain toilet, dishwasher, or clothes washer to camp? No one, but some want it so there are rigs that have it).

I'm personally not ordering with rooftop A/C, but to answer your questions...



Not if they aren't. Kind of a snarky answer, but accurate. Ha. Some of these users are working and/or fulltiming and will be in their rig during the day and find themselves in hot environments.



There are many places that don't cool off at night. And everyone's definition of cooling off is different. Cool to some is cooling down from 100F to 80F. 80F to me is "can't sleep hot". Tolerable, but warm, to me is 70F. Cool off to comfortable to me is 60F. And I'd rather camp in 20F to 50F any day of the week compared to 70F to 90F.



For general planning, we do plan trips to areas during times of the years that typically have night time temps that are comfortable to us. But part of our limiting destinations is because we don't have A/C. If we didn't have heat, same story. More limitations. Some owners don't want to be limited to certain times of year and certain locations.

One or two day local trips can be canceled if weather/temps change, but week long trips are planned well in advance and we go no matter what. It might be average temps, unseasonably hot or unseasonably cold. We've been in Moab, UT in April where it snowed on us one day and two days later it was over 90F. Weather happens. Having heater and A/C in a camper are options for those that want it and make things more comfortable. Same as having power, running water, built in cooktop, etc.

Ahahah. This post sums up exactly why I went from this….


To this…

To this…
To finally this….

My wife and I married in 2016 and began camping in the bed of the power wagon with a futon mattress. When we decided she liked it enough we moved to the Tacoma and ordered a GFC. That was better cause you could stand up and make coffee inside in the morning. But no heat, or running water. Moved to the AluCab Khaya. That had it all (save for AC) but just didn’t have enough room for her to work. Or really to hang out on a rainy day, it was great on cold mornings but you weren’t spending 8 hours at a desk in it. Hence the Supertramp!!!!!

In between selling the Khaya and Tacoma and the F350/ Supertramp coming we used an Ikamper mini on the RAV4. This combo took us all the way through Newfoundland and we had a blast! But you can’t stand up, no heat, no amenities. But killer gas mileage!!! They all have a purpose and it’s fun to look back how we’ve evolved.

Truth be told if I lived the life of a single trout bum (wouldn’t trade my wife for anything but it used to be a dream) a GFC and Tacoma would probably be my choice.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I loved these vehicles….

 

[Chadx]

So much fun talking about everyone's different use cases and rigs. We hammock camped off dual sport motorcycles for years, then bought a 2016 FWC shell and added options of dinnette, heat and stovetop (no water tank or plumbing). Added a chest fridge after a bit of use. Built my own electric panel with battery monitor, shunt and solar controller and mounted 180watt solar panel on roof.

Enjoyed the FWC for three years then wanted to move to a composite camper. Bought a 2020 Overland Explorer CAMP-X (now called Backcountry) which had built in fridge, cabin heater, instant water heater cooktop, water tank, plumbing/sink/outside shower. I added a 200watt solar panel and wired it to the REDARC Manager 30.

Our pickup was 10 years old and I really wanted to be in a SD/HD rather than fullsize (formerly called half ton) pickup as I was way over max payload when loaded up. And even though the rig handled adequately (with Firestone Riderite airbags, LT tires) for 99% of driving, I wanted to have leeway to give the freedom to drive more decisively and to handle that less than 1% scenario of emergency manuever.

Ordered Superduty and it comes in this week. Supertramp Flagship LT will be ready in March. Learned a lot owning two previous rigs on what we want and don't in a camper and it feels like this rig will be the right rig for us at least 10 years.

Regardimg the comment about A/C take rate being high, I suspect at least two things driving that. Flagship is one of a handful offering A/C in a slide-in pop-up camper, and so those that want A/C gravitate to it which skews the % upward. Also, the pricepoint of Flagship is a pretty good sum and so adding the A/C option is a smaller percent of overall price compared to a lower priced camper.

Nice to have all these different rig options with the explosion of overlanding interest.

 

[rruff]

Ahahah. This post sums up exactly why I went from this….

It's a slippery slope! When you finally get to the bottom of it, you'll have something like this...

 

[PaulPritchard]

So much fun talking about everyone's different use cases and rigs. We hammock camped off dual sport motorcycles for years, then bought a 2016 FWC shell and added options of dinnette, heat and stovetop (no water tank or plumbing). Added a chest fridge after a bit of use. Built my own electric panel with battery monitor, shunt and solar controller and mounted 180watt solar panel on roof.

Enjoyed the FWC for three years then wanted to move to a composite camper. Bought a 2020 Overland Explorer CAMP-X (now called Backcountry) which had built in fridge, cabin heater, instant water heater cooktop, water tank, plumbing/sink/outside shower. I added a 200watt solar panel and wired it to the REDARC Manager 30.

Our pickup was 10 years old and I really wanted to be in a SD/HD rather than fullsize (formerly called half ton) pickup as I was way over max payload when loaded up. And even though the rig handled adequately (with Firestone Riderite airbags, LT tires) for 99% of driving, I wanted to have leeway to give the freedom to drive more decisively and to handle that less than 1% scenario of emergency manuever.

Ordered Superduty and it comes in this week. Supertramp Flagship LT will be ready in March. Learned a lot owning two previous rigs on what we want and don't in a camper and it feels like this rig will be the right rig for us at least 10 years.

Regardimg the comment about A/C take rate being high, I suspect at least two things driving that. Flagship is one of a handful offering A/C in a slide-in pop-up camper, and so those that want A/C gravitate to it which skews the % upward. Also, the pricepoint of Flagship is a pretty good sum and so adding the A/C option is a smaller percent of overall price compared to a lower priced camper.

Nice to have all these different rig options with the explosion of overlanding interest.

Chad - I followed you over from the OEV Camp-X forum to see what kind of rig you were going to choose after selling your Camp-X. Looks like you chose wisely with your typically thorough research. Please show pictures of your new truck when it arrives.

 

[rruff]

It's a slippery slope! When you finally get to the bottom of it, you'll have something like this...

Wait... I guess I wasn't at the bottom of the slippery slope after all...

Is there a bottom?

 

[SimplyAnAdventure]

So much fun talking about everyone's different use cases and rigs. We hammock camped off dual sport motorcycles for years, then bought a 2016 FWC shell and added options of dinnette, heat and stovetop (no water tank or plumbing). Added a chest fridge after a bit of use. Built my own electric panel with battery monitor, shunt and solar controller and mounted 180watt solar panel on roof.

Enjoyed the FWC for three years then wanted to move to a composite camper. Bought a 2020 Overland Explorer CAMP-X (now called Backcountry) which had built in fridge, cabin heater, instant water heater cooktop, water tank, plumbing/sink/outside shower. I added a 200watt solar panel and wired it to the REDARC Manager 30.

Our pickup was 10 years old and I really wanted to be in a SD/HD rather than fullsize (formerly called half ton) pickup as I was way over max payload when loaded up. And even though the rig handled adequately (with Firestone Riderite airbags, LT tires) for 99% of driving, I wanted to have leeway to give the freedom to drive more decisively and to handle that less than 1% scenario of emergency manuever.

Ordered Superduty and it comes in this week. Supertramp Flagship LT will be ready in March. Learned a lot owning two previous rigs on what we want and don't in a camper and it feels like this rig will be the right rig for us at least 10 years.

Regardimg the comment about A/C take rate being high, I suspect at least two things driving that. Flagship is one of a handful offering A/C in a slide-in pop-up camper, and so those that want A/C gravitate to it which skews the % upward. Also, the pricepoint of Flagship is a pretty good sum and so adding the A/C option is a smaller percent of overall price compared to a lower priced camper.

Nice to have all these different rig options with the explosion of overlanding interest.

@Chadx I wanna remember today, as we both get older. I have said the EXACT same thing. This is my rig for the next ten years. So here it is. Dec 5th 2023….

Let’s touch base at the end of 2033 and see if we are still driving these same rigs.

I completely agree with your assessment and we went through the same steps. Though I may have been camping/ exploring in the late 90’s sleeping in the back of my Jeep XJ’s or Pathfinder once we really started doing this weeks at a time I realized what I wanted (notice I didn’t say needed).

Like you an HD truck is an added layer of security and capability that I feel is a must have. The Supertramp didn’t “need” all the things we got, I mentioned before but i had no interest in an inside shower or AC…. Then I thought if use cases where I may want or need it…. It was fun picking apart every detail of both the truck and camper and finally landing on the exact truck/ camper of our dreams.

I truly really hope this is it for us until I reach retirement in 11-15 years as I can’t imagine anything else I need.

I know the above posts were a joke but I have had long conversations about “expedition “ vehicles with the guy who bought my last camper as he was always trying to talk me into one. Even seeing the Megatron that type of vehicle doesn’t interest me in the slightest. At least now I don’t ever want a camper that doesn’t fit in a regular parking spot. Our style of travel just doesn’t lend itself to larger RV or Expedition vehicles and I hope that never changes.


This was from this afternoon as we crossed Tennessee. My wife insisted we stop at Buc-ees (we had never been). Truck fit fine in a spot and those next to us had plenty of clearance on their doors.l as did we!

 

[rruff]

^Very nice looking camper and truck! I really like how well it fits.

 

[Chadx]

@Chadx I wanna remember today, as we both get older. I have said the EXACT same thing. This is my rig for the next ten years. So here it is. Dec 5th 2023….

Let’s touch base at the end of 2033 and see if we are still driving these same rigs.
...

10-Roger. I'll mark the calendar!

Like you, this rig should also get us through the same 10 to 15 years provided we remain healthy and can continue on the same adventures (and stay capable of crawling into the cabover, in and out of the camper, etc. Shouldn't be an issue, knock on wood, but just sayin' there are caveats). And really, should be ideal for us well past that duration.

I doubt it will be wanting a larger or different style camper that has us change. Unless we have to stop driving the trails we do, a hardwall campers or anything longer/taller/bigger than Flagship simply won't fit down the trails we frequent. And even the Flagship is pushing it as the new pickup and camper combined will have us 8+" taller than the last rig, which already was scraping overhead branches nearly every trip. And that extra height is before suspension lift. W
It will be an ongoing experiment this year with stock suspension to see where we fit and to gather data to calculate impacts of going even higher.

Hard to imagine a different camper coming out that would catch my eye compared to the Flagship, but I never say never. Just don't know what else we could want or need.

 

[sn_85]

10-Roger. I'll mark the calendar!

Like you, this rig should also get us through the same 10 to 15 years provided we remain healthy and can continue on the same adventures (and stay capable of crawling into the cabover, in and out of the camper, etc. Shouldn't be an issue, knock on wood, but just sayin' there are caveats). And really, should be ideal for us well past that duration.

I doubt it will be wanting a larger or different style camper that has us change. Unless we have to stop driving the trails we do, a hardwall campers or anything longer/taller/bigger than Flagship simply won't fit down the trails we frequent. And even the Flagship is pushing it as the new pickup and camper combined will have us 8+" taller than the last rig, which already was scraping overhead branches nearly every trip. And that extra height is before suspension lift. W
It will be an ongoing experiment this year with stock suspension to see where we fit and to gather data to calculate impacts of going even higher.

Hard to imagine a different camper coming out that would catch my eye compared to the Flagship, but I never say never. Just don't know what else we could want or need.

That is, unless, Supertramp comes out with a flatbed model. I think that would be a model that would turn a lot of heads!!

 

[Chadx]

That is, unless, Supertramp comes out with a flatbed model. I think that would be a model that would turn a lot of heads!!

Indeed! Depends on layout of course. We went through all the pros and cons for various flatbed rigs and as much as we love most layouts, the "camper off solutions" were not insignificant in cost, storage, and twice-a-year changeover time, so decided slide-in design is best for us.

If we left our camper on fulltime, that would eliminate 100% of the cons of a flatbed, for us, and so would slant us heavily towards a flatbed camper.

So in other words, even if (when) supertramp comes out with a flatbed camper, I thiiiiink we'll be able to resist temptation.

 

[SimplyAnAdventure]

That is, unless, Supertramp comes out with a flatbed model. I think that would be a model that would turn a lot of heads!!

Indeed! Depends on layout of course. We went through all the pros and cons for various flatbed rigs and as much as we love most layouts, the "camper off solutions" were not insignificant in cost, storage, and twice-a-year changeover time, so decided slide-in design is best for us.

If we left our camper on fulltime, that would eliminate 100% of the cons of a flatbed, for us, and so would slant us heavily towards a flatbed camper.

So in other words, even if (when) supertramp comes out with a flatbed camper, I thiiiiink we'll be able to resist temptation.

We spent months talking to Rin about the OEV camper flatbed solution. I was really
Pushing for it but my wife just couldn’t fall in love with it. The ST still had more interior storage and storage where we wanted it. Tbh I think the ST as is on a Bowens or similar bed like Sherptek or Mitts alloy might be ideal if you needed larger outside storage. The OEV/ flatbed solution was 105k installed and according to Rin at OK4WD would still have caused issues with the BLIS system on the modern Fords. Even though my camper is full time I didn’t see the benefit of a flatbed solution just yet. If ST makes something game changing I might rethink it. I do like the Bowen bed and might do one of those if we find the need for more stuff but for now there’s more storage than we can use.

@DTAdventure had his on a Mitts allly bed and it looks pretty slick!


Borrowed from the Tremor forum. Slick AF.

 

[rruff]

Indeed! Depends on layout of course. We went through all the pros and cons for various flatbed rigs and as much as we love most layouts, the "camper off solutions" were not insignificant in cost, storage, and twice-a-year changeover time, so decided slide-in design is best for us.

I think something like the Bowen beds are a good alternative if you like outside storage. It's nice that they keep the load floor low; about the same as the original bed, and the camper you have slides right in.