Surprised no one is discussing the Cybertruck today.

[Todd780]

This has become normalized in our society, sure... drive the biggest thing you can afford, and use it for everything... but the rationalizations are lame.

Makes more sense to me than having two insurance payments, to vehicles to park / store & maintain...

Although..... I am debating retiring the truck in around 6 years when it gets higher miles and only using it for towing / camping duties in the summer. Then getting a used Wrangler or Bronco 2 door for DD duties...

 

[NevadaLover]

The EPA isn’t banning ICE.

It's being planned!

I'll just leave this here, sorry it isn't fox news.

 

[AbleGuy]

As of today, it looks like the CT anti-flipping restrictions are back!

Tesla Cybertruck anti-flipping policy quietly reinstated again​

Some buyers report seeing the lawsuit threat pop up in the order agreements.​

Tesla finally started delivering Cybertrucks after a four-year wait, and early reports stated that the automaker was looking to curb flippers by threatening a $50,000 lawsuit against anyone caught reselling the hotly anticipated truck. As things often go in Tesla’s world, that policy didn’t last long before being walked back, but now it appears the automaker is returning to its initial philosophy of threatening flippers.

“the language currently in the automaker’s preorder agreement states, “Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the vehicle or that has been made in bad faith.”

Tesla Cybertruck anti-flipping policy quietly reinstated again - Autoblog

Tesla issued and then quickly walked back a threat to sue anyone who flipped a Cybertruck, and now it appears the policy has been reinstated.

www.autoblog.com

 

[ThundahBeagle]

And all the truck's impracticality.

The main thing you use yours for is a long daily commute. It's a hideous tool for that job, and about as impractical as it could get. This has become normalized in our society, sure... drive the biggest thing you can afford, and use it for everything... but the rationalizations are lame.

I'd much rather have the Cybertruck's performance, than the Denali's luxury. Of course the Cybertruck is poser vehicle. So are the great majority of pickups.

Still beg to differ. If I have to spend 40, 50, or 60 grand on one vehicle, it may as well serve as many of my purposes as needed.

The idea that a Denali pickup truck is impractical is off the rails. It does everything ant pickup does, but with heated leather seats and steering wheel.

Would I be better off commuting with a Subaru Crosstrek? Yep. For sure. Would the Crosstrek haul everything I need hauled on a fairly routine weekend-ly basis. Not a chance. The lady has me picking up vintage this and that antique furniture. I need mulch for the borders of an acre. Fire wood. Project lumber, bricks and on and on.

She has her own little SUV. GMC Terrain Denali. Nice nice ride. Is it impractical as a people mover just because it's a Denali?

Were I affording 2 cars for myself, I keep the truck parked all week and commute in the Subie. Or, if I didn't do all that side work of that type on the weekends, yeah I would ditch the truck for a Forester

 

[JaSAn]

. . .I'd much rather have the Cybertruck's performance, than the Denali's luxury. Of course the Cybertruck is poser vehicle. So are the great majority of pickups.

I'd rather have a basic work truck! I don't want or need the performance of EVs nor the luxury of the current crop of pickups. My next pickup is going to be pre 1970.

BTW, most middle class families cannot afford a separate vehicle for commuting and short trips. Their choice might be poor at commuting but it does other tasks they deem necessary.

 

[LRNAD90]

The EPA isn’t banning ICE. I keep seeing this comment and it just is classic “I heard bob at the waffle shop talk about a Fox article 🤦‍♂️” The auto makers are trying to find the magical combination cost vs utility vs mileage etc. The EPA is setting expectations for emissions that will push at minimum a hybrid solution to address the worst use / ICE cycle for emissions short, low speed stop and go use etc. Many auto makers like that electric motors offer the ability for them to simplify the number of moving parts in a vehicle. So many extinct auto brands will probably resurface because they don’t need to buy surplus engines from big auto makers, transmissions etc.

They can just focus on platform design and go.

What will be the last of the ICE powered vehicles? Full sized SUVs, full sized trucks which make up the bulk of the long haul trip vehicles doing long trips. The rest of the vehicles today mid sized etc 99% of them rarely travel more than 30 miles a day (worst type of use for ICE vehicle anyway)

Well I didn't say the EPA (though they will as well), but if telling yourself that helps you sleep at night, good for you. But it is particularly funny (and ignorant of the facts) coming from someone that (appears to) lives in the state pushing the hardest for their elimination.

"California is gearing up to prohibit the sale of new gas-powered cars. A measure approved by the California Air Resources Board in August 2022 requires all new cars, SUVs and pickup trucks sold in the state to generate zero tailpipe emissions by 2035. "

"CARB's Advanced Clean Cars II Regulations started life as an executive order from California Gov. Gavin Newsom in 2020. At its most basic, the regulations would ban the sale of internal-combustion passenger vehicles and light trucks by 2035, which means zero-emission vehicles would be the only vehicles allowed for sale beyond that point."

12 US States Are Planning to Ban the Sale of Gas-Powered Cars

To curb tailpipe emissions and boost EV and plug-in hybrid sales, California is working toward banning the purchase of combustion cars. Eleven more US states announced plans to follow suit.

www.cnet.com

California's 2035 EV Mandate and What It Could Mean for You

Zero-emissions mandates won't be limited to the Golden State alone.

www.cnet.com

Just cause Karine Jean-Pierre said it, doesn't mean its true (probably doesn't even resemble the truth if she did)

 

[calicamper]

Well I didn't say the EPA (though they will as well), but if telling yourself that helps you sleep at night, good for you. But it is particularly funny (and ignorant of the facts) coming from someone that (appears to) lives in the state pushing the hardest for their elimination.

"California is gearing up to prohibit the sale of new gas-powered cars. A measure approved by the California Air Resources Board in August 2022 requires all new cars, SUVs and pickup trucks sold in the state to generate zero tailpipe emissions by 2035. "

"CARB's Advanced Clean Cars II Regulations started life as an executive order from California Gov. Gavin Newsom in 2020. At its most basic, the regulations would ban the sale of internal-combustion passenger vehicles and light trucks by 2035, which means zero-emission vehicles would be the only vehicles allowed for sale beyond that point."

12 US States Are Planning to Ban the Sale of Gas-Powered Cars

To curb tailpipe emissions and boost EV and plug-in hybrid sales, California is working toward banning the purchase of combustion cars. Eleven more US states announced plans to follow suit.

www.cnet.com

California's 2035 EV Mandate and What It Could Mean for You

Zero-emissions mandates won't be limited to the Golden State alone.

www.cnet.com

Just cause Karine Jean-Pierre said it, doesn't mean its true (probably doesn't even resemble the truth if she did)

If you look into the actual details not the BS articles its a mandated EV capacity. Many auto makers already had plugin hybrids that met the requirement.

This is old news Fox news had its fun with it like 4 yrs ago and all the Fox viewers flipped out😆

 

[NevadaLover]

Well I didn't say the EPA (though they will as well), but if telling yourself that helps you sleep at night, good for you. But it is particularly funny (and ignorant of the facts) coming from someone that (appears to) lives in the state pushing the hardest for their elimination.

"California is gearing up to prohibit the sale of new gas-powered cars. A measure approved by the California Air Resources Board in August 2022 requires all new cars, SUVs and pickup trucks sold in the state to generate zero tailpipe emissions by 2035. "

12 US States Are Planning to Ban the Sale of Gas-Powered Cars

To curb tailpipe emissions and boost EV and plug-in hybrid sales, California is working toward banning the purchase of combustion cars. Eleven more US states announced plans to follow suit.

www.cnet.com

Hey LRNAD90, doesn't the link clearly say that all vehicles produced after 2035 sold in kaleefornya generate ZERO TAILPIPE EMISSIONS.....

Sad how some people only see what they want no matter what.

 

[rruff]

Still beg to differ. If I have to spend 40, 50, or 60 grand on one vehicle, it may as well serve as many of my purposes as needed.
The idea that a Denali pickup truck is impractical is off the rails. It does everything ant pickup does, but with heated leather seats and steering wheel.

I think we are talking about different things. I'm making fun of the way we keep normalizing bigger and more extreme vehicles. And how so many people "need" pickups now than they did in the past, even though there is a lot less pickup stuff being done. For the guys we have the macho angle, and for the ladies we have safety... making it a slam dunk for marketing. I'm not sure how macho and "heated leather seats" go together, but the mental gymnastics required to marry the two would be minor compared to the stuff we are supposed to believe these days...

The Cybertruck is just a different take on the same theme. You seem to be offended that it is called a truck... because it doesn't adhere to some "standard" that has been agreed upon by all the other manufacturers. Of course those all look the same... because they are all milking the same cows. That doesn't make them any less ridiculous for how they are typically used. The Cybertruck might be deficient in some "truck duties" (that trucks rarely do anyway), but it does most of them just fine, and obliterates "real trucks" in other aspects. The fact that a rack or camper would need to be specially built for the Cybertruck is so far down the list...

Most vehicles carry a payload of one person most of the time... and it's a short trip. True, people keep getting fatter, but you still don't need a 6,000 lb vehicle to haul a payload of one human. And no, I'm not talking about a 3,000 lb car either. A 500 lb enclosed vehicle would do just fine. If for instance... you wanted to design for what we actually do... and anyone wished to massively reduce the cost of personal transportation... we could repurpose our urban roads, infrastructure, and parking to favor 500 lb vehicles, and actually make them safe to use.

I'm not suggesting that your personal decision on what to buy and use is in error at all. Rather that it's insane that it "makes sense" to buy huge vehicles and drive them everywhere.

 

[Todd780]

I think we are talking about different things. I'm making fun of the way we keep normalizing bigger and more extreme vehicles. And how so many people "need" pickups now than they did in the past, even though there is a lot less pickup stuff being done. For the guys we have the macho angle, and for the ladies we have safety... making it a slam dunk for marketing. I'm not sure how macho and "heated leather seats" go together, but the mental gymnastics required to marry the two would be minor compared to the stuff we are supposed to believe these days...

The Cybertruck is just a different take on the same theme. You seem to be offended that it is called a truck... because it doesn't adhere to some "standard" that has been agreed upon by all the other manufacturers. Of course those all look the same... because they are all milking the same cows. That doesn't make them any less ridiculous for how they are typically used. The Cybertruck might be deficient in some "truck duties" (that trucks rarely do anyway), but it does most of them just fine, and obliterates "real trucks" in other aspects. The fact that a rack or camper would need to be specially built for the Cybertruck is so far down the list...

Most vehicles carry a payload of one person most of the time... and it's a short trip. True, people keep getting fatter, but you still don't need a 6,000 lb vehicle to haul a payload of one human. And no, I'm not talking about a 3,000 lb car either. A 500 lb enclosed vehicle would do just fine. If for instance... you wanted to design for what we actually do... and anyone wished to massively reduce the cost of personal transportation... we could repurpose our urban roads, infrastructure, and parking to favor 500 lb vehicles, and actually make them safe to use.

I'm not suggesting that your personal decision on what to buy and use is in error at all. Rather that it's insane that it "makes sense" to buy huge vehicles and drive them everywhere.

I dunno. I use my truck for lots of pickup stuff so def need one. Right now it doesn't make sense for me to run another vehicle as a DD. The added expense and the pain in the butt of finding parking for a 4th vehicle (Wifes vehicle, the truck, oldest daughters vehicle and 2 motorcycles already) out weighs any gas savings. In the summer I tend to do small errands on this:




Without expanding them, I can fit a 12 pack in each side case and without expanding it, I can fit 4 bottles of wine in the tail bag. Weather permitting I'll ride the 60 mile round trip to the office too.

 

[LRNAD90]

Hey LRNAD90, doesn't the link clearly say that all vehicles produced after 2035 sold in kaleefornya generate ZERO TAILPIPE EMISSIONS.....

Sad how some people only see what they want no matter what.

I don't know, I'm sure I'm just one of those under educated conservatives, everything I say labeled as disinformation I'm sure..

 

[rruff]

I don't know, I'm sure I'm just one of those under educated conservatives, everything I say labeled as disinformation I'm sure..

It's hard for me to take any mandate seriously that supposedly happens 12 years in the future...

The proposal does indeed propose to outlaw the sale of new ICE only cars by 2035. Didn't see anything about trucks. And hybrids with 50 miles of EV range are allowed. Of course used cars sold before then are ok.

Based on recent history and reality, EVs will likely be better and cheaper than any ICE offering in 12 years, making it a moot point. If not, then far future mandates are very often revised.

 

[NevadaLover]

It's hard for me to take any mandate seriously that supposedly happens 12 years in the future...

The proposal does indeed propose to outlaw the sale of new ICE only cars by 2035. Didn't see anything about trucks. And hybrids with 50 miles of EV range are allowed. Of course used cars sold before then are ok.

Based on recent history and reality, EVs will likely be better and cheaper than any ICE offering in 12 years, making it a moot point. If not, then far future mandates are very often revised.

Did you even bother to read the article in the top link of his post? It is not a proposal it is an executive order, it very clearly shows that the kaleefornya air resource board approved a measure as mandated by governor gavin newsom in his executive order (governor newsom’s 2020 Executive Order N-79-20 ).

If you read the exec order it doesn't say anything about hybrids, hybrids not being zero emission vehicles, therefore they will also be banned by the order.

Here's the exec order:https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fa...ms-zero-emission-2035-executive-order-n-79-20

It clearly lists all new vehicles, i.e. cars, SUV's and pickup trucks be 100 percent zero tailpipe emission vehicles.

Not sure if you missed the clearly worded executive order that states this, or if maybe you just don't want to admit the truth that right now 9 states are planning to ban all drivers from using their own finances to purchase new ICE vehicles starting in 2035.

Whether or not the EV market will be able to support this assinine exec order or not is irrelevant, the fact is that some fear mongering political morons are attempting to take away more personal choice from the American people.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Did you even bother to read the article in the top link of his post? It is not a proposal it is an executive order, it very clearly shows that the kaleefornya air resource board approved a measure as mandated by governor gavin newsom in his executive order (governor newsom’s 2020 Executive Order N-79-20 ).

If you read the exec order it doesn't say anything about hybrids, hybrids not being zero emission vehicles, therefore they will also be banned by the order.

Here's the exec order:https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fa...ms-zero-emission-2035-executive-order-n-79-20

It clearly lists all new vehicles, i.e. cars, SUV's and pickup trucks be 100 percent zero tailpipe emission vehicles.

Not sure if you missed the clearly worded executive order that states this, or if maybe you just don't want to admit the truth that right now 9 states are planning to ban all drivers from using their own finances to purchase new ICE vehicles starting in 2035.

Whether or not the EV market will be able to support this assinine exec order or not is irrelevant, the fact is that some fear mongering political morons are attempting to take away more personal choice from the American people.

As is increasingly demonstrated in public discourse, personal wants and “liberty” seem to outweigh any concern for the common good.

So far, we still live in a society. And the science doesn’t care about one’s feelings. The “political morons” in this country are our largest impediments to “ameliorate the suffering” of our older selves and future generations.

ICE ban stories are a field day for the paranoid press to stoke fears and open advertisers wallets. The truth is, these deadlines are for auto manufacturers, who time and time again display their unwillingness to innovate. No matter how many times we bail them out.

Even if US automakers can transition by those dates they will already be overrun by Chinese auto manufacturers. Chinese cars sold in the EU are getting 5 star crash ratings, charge faster, go farther and are cheaper. Right now at this moment they are building factories in Mexico. How long can the “political morons” keep them out?

 

[NevadaLover]

As is increasingly demonstrated in public discourse, personal wants and “liberty” seem to outweigh any concern for the common good.

So far, we still live in a society. And the science doesn’t care about one’s feelings. The “political morons” in this country are our largest impediments to “ameliorate the suffering” of our older selves and future generations.

ICE ban stories are a field day for the paranoid press to stoke fears and open advertisers wallets. The truth is, these deadlines are for auto manufacturers, who time and time again display their unwillingness to innovate. No matter how many times we bail them out.

Even if US automakers can transition by those dates they will already be overrun by Chinese auto manufacturers. Chinese cars sold in the EU are getting 5 star crash ratings, charge faster, go farther and are cheaper. Right now at this moment they are building factories in Mexico. How long can the “political morons” keep them out?

The "ban stories" are not stories when they are listing the executive order that actually is banning new ICE vehicles.

As long as EV's still suffer from the limitations they have, i.e. range, cost, limited or unavailable towing, insufficient charging infrastructure etc.. there is going to be a need for ICE vehicles, eliminating the availability of new ICE vehicles is an impediment to many who need more of what EV's lack.

If the Chinese EV's are so superior to domestic offerings then they will be here eventually no matter what political morons do, that's how a free market society works, but that is dependent on being offered a superior product that withstands the test of time, something Chinese products fail to do historically and frequently.

I'm not going to get into a discussion of the "science" and feelings, both are completely subjective and the quickest way to get a thread shutdown is by going down those rabbitholes.