Swaybar removal pro and con

[David Harris]

I like the concept of this gadget:

http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Deflex.asp

Looks good. How much does it run approximately?

 

[Scott Brady]

The Anti-Rock was what I was looking at. Something simple that didn't require rolling around in the dirt to adjust. Even 30-40% of the stock bar would be ideal and give the balance I am looking for.

 

[mongosd2]

The Anti-Rock was what I was looking at. Something simple that didn't require rolling around in the dirt to adjust. Even 30-40% of the stock bar would be ideal and give the balance I am looking for.

Hey Scott, haven't had a chance to call...I'll give you a call tomorrow

 

[James86004]

I'm basing it on info posted here by somebody who was banned, who claimed to have measured it using a scale system. It'll be hard to find the info, and I'm not even sure the posts still exist.

But here's an email conversation with a friend of mine.

Quote:
BTW, somebody did this scale thing to calculate the CG height of the Disco, and they came up with 30". I think the truck used was modified as the gross weight was 1400lbs over the curb weight... so I don't know what they've done. But just for a point of discussion, how does 30" compare to other trucks?
Quote:
Sweet f'in' cripes that's high.

According to the 109" coachbuilder's drawing I have (dated 1964), the CG of the Land Rover 109 was 31" off the ground, and there is also the proviso that a 45 degree tipping angle of an unladen vehicle must be maintained.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm working on something as we speak for a d1...I already have a direct bolt on for a d2, but the I haven't had a chance to get info out on it...

I'm interested.

I like the concept of this gadget:

http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Deflex.asp

I like it too. But... are they intending it to be used only in the rear? Increasing the rear roll stiffness 4x and leaving the front standard is a recipe for disaster. (can you say oversteer?)

According to the 109" coachbuilder's drawing I have (dated 1964), the CG of the Land Rover 109 was 31" off the ground, and there is also the proviso that a 45 degree tipping angle of an unladen vehicle must be maintained.

Well, that backs up the previous claim.

For reference, anything over 25" typically requires outriggers to be allowed on the skidpad. While 30" doesn't seem that much higher, it's all relative. A Formula 1 car CG is what... maybe 16"? (Guessing).

 

[James86004]

For reference, anything over 25" typically requires outriggers to be allowed on the skidpad. While 30" doesn't seem that much higher, it's all relative. A Formula 1 car CG is what... maybe 16"? (Guessing).

Doesn't the track width enter into that equation? The track of a Series LR is about 4 inches narrower than a RRC/Defender/Disco I, which in turn is significantly narrower than a full sized pickup.

I wonder how high it was on that Suzuki Samurai CR tested? :sombrero:

 

[muskyman]

I had the Jeep guys I was with exclaim in surprise when we got to the trail head, they could see my truck rolling all over in their mirrors on the road. When they were disconnecting their swaybars (one manual, and one with "the button") and I told them, they were surprised I drove around like that.

coil spring jeeps are a perfect example of trucks that DO NOT handle well without sway bars.

take the front sway bar off a stock TJ and they are near impossible to drive straight.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yes, track width absolutely matters. As does wheelbase. I don't doubt the Disco's force pyramid (CoG placement with respect to the 4 tires) profile isn't far off the Samurai.

I was told the Disco's CoG height is similar to that of a high-top Sprinter van. And then most of us lift it another 2".

take the front sway bar off a stock TJ and they are near impossible to drive straight.

I have no idea. These were JK's, FWIW.

 

[Scott Brady]

coil spring jeeps are a perfect example of trucks that DO NOT handle well without sway bars.

take the front sway bar off a stock TJ and they are near impossible to drive straight.

It is very noticeable with the JK as well. Fortunately you just have to push a button to disconnect and reconnect the bar.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

For the life of me, I don't know why some people remove the system?

I imagine Jeeps, with the short control arms, would suffer greatly from roll-steer. When the truck rolls left, the front axle steers left, and the rear axle steers right, exacerbating the problem. I can see how death wobble happens.

Land Rovers are not as bad with the longer arms.

 

[gjackson]

A Formula 1 car CG is what... maybe 16"? (Guessing).

More like 6" I would say. A Van Diemen Formula 2000 Car is 10" vertical CG. See here. He claims 2G cornering in the F2000, and F1 cars can get 4G lateral, and are all engineered to be underweight so the ballast can be placed optimally. Really impressive stuff, but little to do with Land Rovers.

cheers

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Hmmm... I figured it was about the half height of the wheels. I mean, the engine has to be 24" overall height to start with? I really have no idea. But 6" seems impossibly low.

 

[ntsqd]

Doesn't seem that low to me. Take the wet-thumb-in-the-wind CoG guesstimate for cam-in-block V8 powered 4WD trucks as being at the cam centerline, on the flywheel's clutch face; and apply it with the obviously needed adjustments, to road racer and 6" doesn't seem all that far off.

Superlift (?, one of them anyway) used to offer the locking hub based swaybar QD. It's no longer in their catalog and it wasn't listed for very long. No idea why, but it makes me wonder.

Not that long ago someone was working on a rotating flat & tapered bar type of adjustable swaybar for off road use. There was a post about it here, one of our members took the promo pictures of it. Unless the moving (as opposed to the rotating) end is constrained to a linear path of travel those tend to be more on/off than truly adjustable. Which is fine for this application.

The rear swaybar on one of Robby Gordon's old Trophy trucks (last raced by Steinbrenner) used a sliding, splined coupler in the middle of the bar similar to MOPAR's electric disconnect, but was actuated by mechanical linkage. Those particular bars looked to be SAW ACVW torsion bars and the sliding sleave looked to be one of the weld-in t-bar anchors sold by SAW.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, I guess. I know they go to some crazy wide V angle to make the engine have a lower CG.

 

[Antichrist]

It's probably apples to oranges, but my D1 has had it's swaybars off for years and it's never bothered me. I'm sure it bothers people driving behind me on curves.
Local on ramp posted for 30 or 35 I can easily take at 53.
That's with OME 2" and 2" body lift.
I typically run 7.50x16 tires.

The tipover for Series 1 was 45.
I've never seen a published measurement for the elevation measurement.