Synthetic Winchline question.

[Master-Pull]

Pressure and heat will flatten out the rope, I wouldn't want to load more then 125 feet on the M12000. Even loading that much is really pushing the space limits. One thing to think about is what will happen if you start to winch at an extreme side angle. The rope will pile up on one side of the drum and can do some damage to your winch, this can be avoided with careful planning and some more time spooling out to reset the line, but sometimes stuff happens.

-Alex

 

[Eventhough]

<snip>

Pressure and heat will flatten out the rope, I wouldn't want to load more then 125 feet on the M12000. Even loading that much is really pushing the space limits. One thing to think about is what will happen if you start to winch at an extreme side angle. The rope will pile up on one side of the drum and can do some damage to your winch, this can be avoided with careful planning and some more time spooling out to reset the line, but sometimes stuff happens.

-Alex

<snip>

Heck, skip the 'some damage' and go to 'pop your winch like a can o tuna.' :Wow1: (Guys - Alex knows what he is talking about...)

Most people seem in a hurry when they winch and that is when their line usually stacks up on one side and causes issues. Slow down!

I recommend that one never puts more line on their winch than it is spec'd for from the manufacturer. Sometimes a bit less is good to give yourself some margin for error. I've had people put over 100' of 3/8" on a M8000 before. Yes, it fits when spooled on nice and neat but one hick-up and your winch is binding on unevenly spooled line.

I also recommend to run at least 3/8" synthetic line on a 8000 lb winch unless you are running Superline when 5/16" works. Regular ole 5/16" can work just fine but it doesn't leave much room for error. If your winch pulls 8,000 lbs and your vehicle weights 5,500 lbs it won't take much of a shock load to break a 5/16" line with a minimum break strength of less than 13,000 lbs, especially when you sprinkle in a little abrasion on your line. Up size to 3/8" and have some additional safety factor build in but still examine your line regularly for signs of wear and need for replacement.

 

[Antichrist]

Obviously I like extra safety margins, but if you're applying shock loads to your winch line you're doing something wrong.

 

[Eventhough]

Obviously I like extra safety margins, but if you're applying shock loads to your winch line you're doing something wrong.

Shock loads can't always be avoided. You can minimize their occurrence by practicing proper recovery techniques but you can't keep them from ever occurring. My last winch fest began with me having to winch up a steep and very slick hill that I could not climb without my winch. I had to get into position at the top of the hill to recovery a few vehicles stuck on the other side. Assisting the winch minimally with the engine at one point put me driving past the spool speed of my winch by maybe a foot. Since the hill was so slick I slowly slid back onto the winch line while the winch was still spooling in. Even though this was a very gentle slide it still imparted a dynamic/shock load which was not good but did not break anything due to many factors, one of which that didn't hurt was running 3/8" line instead of 5/16".

Regarding using a stronger winch line to give yourself an extra safety margin reminds me of a debate I had when I was in school. This was when cell phones were getting more popular and a student said that no one should ever take a cell phone with them on a back country trip because it would make everyone partake in more risky behavior because of the additional safety margin the cell phone added. I did not agree one iota. Now introduce personal locator beacons, SPOT/other emergency locators, and even more cell phones. Just because you want to impart an additional safety factor does not mean that you will neglect your equipment or engage in more risky behavior. Neglected equipment is operator error, not equipment selection error.

And now back to the OP's question. I suggest you use progressively finer sandpaper and smooth out your drum, repaint the drum, and then if needed put enough abrasion guard on your line so the entire first wrap that contacts the drum is protected with the abrasion wrap. The only thing the abrasion wrap would not protect is any rough areas on the side of the drum.

 

[Antichrist]

I'm of the school of thought, even though it's no longer popular, that contends using the wheels to assist the winch is doing something wrong. Most of the time anyway.

 

[Eventhough]

I'm of the school of thought, even though it's no longer popular, that contends using the wheels to assist the winch is doing something wrong. Most of the time anyway.

I'm kinda with you. I try to not assist the winch and let the winch do the work but when you get in some situations it is hard to not assist with the wheels.

 

[colodak]

Found out yesterday that the steel cable on my Milemarker E8000 is frayed (i've only used it 3 times in 8 yrs), bought a 10,000 lb rated synthetic rope last night for it, going to maybe replace it today if I can get motivated. Two feet of snow might make it difficult.

 

[Redline]

Bummer, good reason to upgrade though. I assume you don't remember what caused the damage with such little use?

 

[Scott B.]

I'm kinda with you. I try to not assist the winch and let the winch do the work but when you get in some situations it is hard to not assist with the wheels.

Why would you not use the wheels to help the winch?

If, for example, you are mired in the mud, the slowly spinning wheels will help break the suction, allowing your winch to work faster and more efficiently.

Now, in the rocks (especially big ones) is a different issue.

 

[Eventhough]

Why would you not use the wheels to help the winch?

If, for example, you are mired in the mud, the slowly spinning wheels will help break the suction, allowing your winch to work faster and more efficiently.

Now, in the rocks (especially big ones) is a different issue.

Dang it - I typed a bunch and lost it.

I agree with you - it depends on the situation. In mud you can easily get so mired you have to heavily use your engine power and wheels to get out in addition to digging and other methods. Sometimes you want to move very slowly such as in the rocks or in my last situation where the ground was very very click if I had "given 'er 'ell" I would have quickly driven past the speed of my winch causing major issues with either running over the line, sliding back on the line (dynamic force), and definitely putting a ton of slack in the line on the spool which is never good. I often see people give it a ton of gas as soon as they hook up their winch which can cause major issues. As you probably know one needs to be in control when winching and using too much gas, or assistance via the wheels, can easily and quickly put you out of control. If you have to err to one side or the other I prefer to err to the side of less power from the wheels as you can always give it more power but once you give it that power it is more difficult to take it back.

 

[Scott B.]

Dang it - I typed a bunch and lost it.

I agree with you - it depends on the situation. In mud you can easily get so mired you have to heavily use your engine power and wheels to get out in addition to digging and other methods. Sometimes you want to move very slowly such as in the rocks or in my last situation where the ground was very very click if I had "given 'er 'ell" I would have quickly driven past the speed of my winch causing major issues with either running over the line, sliding back on the line (dynamic force), and definitely putting a ton of slack in the line on the spool which is never good. I often see people give it a ton of gas as soon as they hook up their winch which can cause major issues. As you probably know one needs to be in control when winching and using too much gas, or assistance via the wheels, can easily and quickly put you out of control. If you have to err to one side or the other I prefer to err to the side of less power from the wheels as you can always give it more power but once you give it that power it is more difficult to take it back.

I did not mean to imply one should use "pedal-to-the-metal" power. Only as much as needed.

And, you really don't want to run over the winch cable - that will ruin your whole day!

 

[Eventhough]

I did not mean to imply one should use "pedal-to-the-metal" power. Only as much as needed.

I didn't mean to imply that either - but unfortunately that is what many people do.

And, you really don't want to run over the winch cable - that will ruin your whole day!

Which is why I pointed out that as being a bad thing.

 

[86tuning]

IIRC Warn doesn't approve anything over a 9k winch for synthetic and then they only approve their synthetic line.

Is that because their only synthetic rope is a 5/16" rope?

I'm running a 3/8" x 80' amsteel blue line on my m8000. I carry a 40' extension which sees a fair bit of use.

 

[Balzer]

I run viking 3/8 sythetic line on my warn 9k, love it. It came with a eyelet for attaching to the drum a 12 ft abrasion sleve and I opted for an alum. saftey thimble for the end.
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Sand the drum down smooth then paint with epoxy paint (sometimes called appliance paint). Be sure to sand/paint the sides of the drum as well. I also sugest on the first wrap duct tape over the rope half way across the drum then make a duct tape tab and put it on the rope at your farelead after you get 1 layer all the way across the drum. This ensures that you always have 1 layer for positive grip on the drum.
some other tips
if you get color rope a weather cover for your winch helps keep the color from fading. Most synthetic is UV stable but not colorfast.
Keep your rope clean (another benifit to a winch cover) but if you use it in mud/sand be sure to wash it out at the car wash. Grit in the rope will wear it out fast.
NEVER attach the rope to its self use a tree saver or shackles.
Avoid high angle pulls if possible. High angle pull puts stress on the rope where it runs over the farelead, and piles the rope up on 1 side of the drum.
when possible attach the rope to a solid object and pull your vehicle towards the object. In other words avoid pulling other vehicles towards you. This basically makes the rope stationary and the vehicle is in motion. Keeping this in mind helps prevent dragging your winch rope over a rock or around a tree. However it is not always possible. (especially when you have friends like mine that get stuck in a piddle puddle)
Buy a nice new alum pully block (I think they have coated pullys specifically for sythetic rope now too)
And finally always use the abrasion sleve anywhere the rope touches anything other than the fairlead or air.
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Using smaller rope and putting longer amount on the drum is highly dependant on the vehicle weight. For the most part I would sugest sticking with 3/8 and the sugested length for the winch.

 

[Warn Industries]

Is that because their only synthetic rope is a 5/16" rope?

I'm running a 3/8" x 80' amsteel blue line on my m8000. I carry a 40' extension which sees a fair bit of use.

Right now, we've got our new Spydura Synthetic Rope that comes with our VR8000-s, VR10000-s, M8000-S, 9.5xp-s, and 9.5cti-s. It is rated for winches up to 10,000 lbs.

We just released our Spydura winch rope as a stand-alone item (part number 87915). It is 100' of 3/8" line, rated for winches with 10,000 lb. capacities and under, and includes the hook and sliding sleeve. You'll need to get a polished-aluminum hawse fairlead, though.

- Andy