Tacoma is a dog, should I think twice before adding FWC?

[DaveInDenver]

Uhmmm...consensus according to whom? A bunch of internet gossipers?

Here at ExPo, the question comes up a lot. You probably know more about this than I (you generally do) but in the 10 years of whatever I've been around here I don't think I've ever seen anyone cite a regulation or law that dictates you must adhere to GVWR as a light duty, personal truck owner. I've been unable to find anything in Colorado law other than for 26,000+ trucks and that's related to safe bridge crossing, pavement damage and which driver's license you need. I'm not aware of a manufacturer or an insurance company denying a personal claim on a GVWR basis, but that's probably happened. But, yeah, I do my best to always keep my truck within GVWR. My '91 wasn't difficult even with the WilderNest and all the armor. This Tacoma, I'm still under 5,350 lbs but it doesn't look likely I can stay under it when I eventually get the 'Nest on, since it plus the framework to adapt it to the funky Tacoma bed shape will combine to be ~500 lbs.

 

[Clutch]

You would serious consider a Titan?? Bleck.

Only if I could get it super cheap, but they are kinda hard to look at. They aren't selling too well...might be able to get a gonga deal on one. ...and I dunno, shouldn't really care about how a vehicle looks if you're going to beat on it.

Here is one sub $25K: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/688439617/overview/

Another a touch over $25K...saying payload is 1950lbs. https://www.dennisdillonnissan.com/new/Nissan/2017-Nissan-Titan-d86c79bc0a0e0adf2f7fe0bbffcbd5f8.htm

Told bkg once I didn't see the point of the Titan, but now I am kinda getting it. Though still think you're better off buying a 3/4-1 Ton if you can't get a deal on the Titey.

Would like to get back into a 8' bed. Keep on looking at vans, but if you do a conversion both 4WD and camper, you're kinda stuck with it. Pick up is more versatile, and you can separate components if needed. That is probably another "this thing vs. that thing" thread.

 

[DaveInDenver]

There is more to GVWR than just suspension. Many aspects of the Tacoma could handle more than the rated weight with a suspension upgrade, but there are weak links. When Toyota went to the 4.0L, they should have paired it with a bigger rear axle, but they didn't. The little 8" ring on these trucks generates a lot of heat when it is worked hard. Temps north of 250 degrees are not uncommon when you are towing on grades. The axle is fine for pedestrian use, but if you plan to work the truck, an axle upgrade would be a good idea.

It's the same axle that Toyota uses on the Hilux, which in some configurations carries a 3,050 kg GVWR. That's 6,724 lbs for a curb weight of 2,045 kg/4,508 lb. Those numbers indicate at least a 2,216 lb cargo rating. That's a 4x4 Extra Cab, stick shift SR5. So not the stripped down Workmate, either.

https://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/~/media/toyota/vehicles/hilux-ng/files/hilux-ebrochure.pdf

The door sill on my truck is 5,350 lbs and I had a measured curb weight of 4,410 lbs with a full tank and just me in the cab. The Ford 8.8 and the Data 44 are generally said to be similar and carry respectively a 3,800 and 3,500 weight rating. So of all the things on the truck I don't worry about it's the rear axle being capable of handling GVWR. But as you astutely suggest the 8" gear set is marginal, so it's not something I would go out intentionally to abuse.

 

[Clutch]

My first pickup was an ‘81 Datsun (yes, not yet Nissan in the US then) King Cab, 4x4. 2.2 liter, I think, 4 cylinder. It wasn't fast, but I never thought of it as underpowered. I remember following a Corvette over Sonora Pass in California and wishing he'd go faster ... though of course I certainly didn't have power to pass. A work truck I had in ‘70's was a 6 cylinder F100 with 3 on the tree. When we loaded it down to the bump stops, it was slow. Got it stuck once, and our boss had to pull it out with his 1960's GMC V6 truck. That was a real truck motor.

That reminds me of the ol' 22R's....felt like you had to jump out and help push it along to pass anything on the interstate. Trying to pass a semi truck...."c'mon baby...you can do it, you can do it....almost got it...almost..." then you hit the air wall coming off the semi..."ahhh...nevermind, not passing today..."

 

[rruff]

It should be right on the sticker in the door jamb.

1405 lb it says.

I'm going to remove the bed (~400 lb?) and the camper shell will weigh ~700 lb, so that's only a 300 lb addition. Rear seats removed too. But with the "furniture" (though it will be light also) and all the additional stuff I'm bringing, I'm sure it will be over 1,400. Probably more like 2,000 lb.

Ya, the DC long is bigger than any other 1/2 ton, but it isn't fun to maneuver in tight places.

 

[Dalko43]

Here at ExPo, the question comes up a lot. You probably know more about this than I (you generally do) but in the 10 years of whatever I've been around here I don't think I've ever seen anyone cite a regulation or law that dictates you must adhere to GVWR as a light duty, personal truck owner. I've been unable to find anything in Colorado law other than for 26,000+ trucks and that's related to safe bridge crossing, pavement damage and which driver's license you need. I'm not aware of a manufacturer or an insurance company denying a personal claim on a GVWR basis, but that's probably happened. But, yeah, I do my best to always keep my truck within GVWR. My '91 wasn't difficult even with the WilderNest and all the armor. This Tacoma, I'm still under 5,350 lbs but it doesn't look likely I can stay under it when I eventually get the 'Nest on, since it plus the framework to adapt it to the funky Tacoma bed shape will combine to be ~500 lbs.

You're missing the point. I'm not discussing whether or not it's legal or frowned upon by insurance. I'm discussing whether or not it's a wise decision to exceed OEM's GVWR ratings. The OEM's designed the vehicles for a certain amount of payload and towing; exceed those ratings at your own risk.

It's the same axle that Toyota uses on the Hilux, which in some configurations carries a 3,050 kg GVWR. That's 6,724 lbs for a curb weight of 2,045 kg/4,508 lb. Those numbers indicate at least a 2,216 lb cargo rating. That's a 4x4 Extra Cab, stick shift SR5. So not the stripped down Workmate, either.

https://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/~/media/toyota/vehicles/hilux-ng/files/hilux-ebrochure.pdf

Does the Hilux in fact use the same axles as the Tacoma? Even if so, you're still ignoring that the Hilux has a different frame and different overall chassis from that of the Tacoma. It is designed for heavier loads; the Tacoma is not.

 

[Adventurous]

You're missing the point. I'm not discussing whether or not it's legal or frowned upon by insurance. I'm discussing whether or not it's a wise decision to exceed OEM's GVWR ratings. The OEM's designed the vehicles for a certain amount of payload and towing; exceed those ratings at your own risk.

Does the Hilux in fact use the same axles as the Tacoma? Even if so, you're still ignoring that the Hilux has a different frame and different overall chassis from that of the Tacoma. It is designed for heavier loads; the Tacoma is not.

80+ replies deep and the entire thread so far can be summarized by this statement.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The OEM's designed the vehicles for a certain amount of payload and towing; exceed those ratings at your own risk.

80+ replies deep and the entire thread so far can be summarized by this statement.

Was this in dispute? Toyota will also void your warranty for using your truck for rock crawling yet they offer lockers and crawl control. Who are we supposed to believe, the lawyers or the designers?

 

[phsycle]

1405 lb it says.

I'm going to remove the bed (~400 lb?) and the camper shell will weigh ~700 lb, so that's only a 300 lb addition. Rear seats removed too. But with the "furniture" (though it will be light also) and all the additional stuff I'm bringing, I'm sure it will be over 1,400. Probably more like 2,000 lb.

Ya, the DC long is bigger than any other 1/2 ton, but it isn't fun to maneuver in tight places.

Can't wait to see the final product. Just watch all the joints and bearings. Engine will pull it just fine, and I'm sure the frame will be ok. The smaller "lighter duty" parts will need extra monitoring.

 

[Clutch]

Was this in dispute?

Everything with Dalko is...

I'm discussing whether or not it's a wise decision to exceed OEM's GVWR ratings. .

Sure it is! I also highly recommend that Harley owners ride drunk and helmetless! Hell, I'll even open a their beer for them!

Though they kinda do that already...and they seem to be multiplying...same with those UTV people...pretty rare sight not to see 'em without a beer in their hand. Ha ha!

 

[rruff]

exceed those ratings at your own risk.

Well, I could have bought an F250, but that would have been a different sort of risk...

 

[phsycle]

...I don't think I've ever seen anyone cite a regulation or law that dictates you must adhere to GVWR as a light duty, personal truck owner. .

I can't seem to find anything upon quick search. Only thing I came across was vehicles over 6k lbs may be restricted on certain city roads, and more relevant to this discussion, vehicles over 8,500lbs will require additional insurance. This is per Wiki.

With how intrusive DOT is, it would be hard to believe that there isn't some sort of regulation there. To me, that poses more danger than a chip on the windshield or tires sticking out 1/2" from fenders.

 

[rruff]

To me, that poses more danger than a chip on the windshield or tires sticking out 1/2" from fenders.

Are people ticketed for these? Not in NM....

 

[phsycle]

Sure it is! I also highly recommend that Harley owners ride drunk and helmetless! Hell, I'll even open a their beer for them!

Sadly, won't be doing that in EU. What fun they'll miss out on.

http://time.com/5183838/european-union-tariffs-donald-trump-bourbon-levis-harley-davidson/

 

[phsycle]

Are people ticketed for these? Not in NM....

Varies by state. In my state, chip/crack can't be longer than 3". And my friends have been ticketed for tires sticking out.