TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain
- Thread starter biotect
- Start date
Libransser
Observer
I know, right? My old iPad can't handle it either. There's an option at the top, under Thread Tools, select the Show Printable Version option. This option doesn't load pictures nor videos so the page will load lighting fast on any of your devices. Pictures and videos are left as links so you can check them one at a time. Give it a try.
Hey, Biotect, you may want to add this advice to the first page of the thread (or threads when going the sub-forum route).
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biotect
Designer
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:sombrero: :sombrero:
Hi adam88,
Probably the opposite of the Unibomber, because I'm a pacifist, and I've always loved and still love technology....:coffeedrink:
Putting the same point more philosophically, I am a humanist, I see humans as an important and valuable evolutionary development, and I very much reject the philosophical movements known as "Neo-Luddism", "Anarcho-Primitivism", and "Deep Ecology", the movements that largely inspired the Unibomber -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Luddism , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_ecology , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewilding_(anarchism) , https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-what-is-anarcho-primitivism , http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-do-the-anarcho-primitivists-want-to-abolish-civiliz-1633477541 , http://fee.org/articles/is-the-unabomber-an-ecobomber/ , and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski . As written earlier in the thread, my own view is that the ultimate, non-proximate causes of the ecological crisis run very deep, and are inextricably woven into who and what we are as creatures. We are the first emergence of fully self-conscious, rational, tool-using, language-using, and culturally plastic Mind on earth. Any emergence of advanced Mind will inevitably mess up the ecosystem, at least at first, on any planet that has enough evolutionary history and enough complexity of Life to generate such Mind. So for me the solution is more Mind, not less; the solution is making an effort to use our Science and Technology to achieve an ecologically "steady state" form of civilization dedicated to humane ends, and a civilization that simultaneously allows local and planetary ecosystems to recover. Whereas the Unibomber's deepest wish was to bomb humanity back to the stone age.
For a longer discussion, see post #2441, sections 1 and 2, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=2016565#post2016565 .
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1. Gone with the Wynns
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As for "obsessed with campers..... ", take a look at the videos below made by the Wynns. They have great documentary value, because they nicely capture the problematic that this thread is dealing with. For the Wynns' website, see http://www.gonewiththewynns.com , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/about , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/map , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/rvin , and https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...5YKEqC5FqvTTqiC6XaTGiIr2G8T_bVE&v=sxHN1TiWPq0 .
I first got interested in expedition motorhome design mainly because globally capable boats created for elderly, adventurous, wealthy couples have already been done. In catamarans there's Gunboats, and in diesel-powered yachts there's FPB. See http://www.gunboat.com and http://www.setsail.com . Gunboats typically sell for 4 or 5 million USD (they are all-carbon-fiber construction, laid by hand), and FPB yachts begin at about 3 - 4 million USD for the 64-footer – see http://www.berthon.co.uk/fpb-motor-yacht/fpb-64/ and http://www.boatinternational.com/yachts-for-sale/fpb784--80919 . In terms of my personal background I am more of a sailor than an overlander. But as a transportation designer I will naturally be interested in what seem to be instances of "market failure", or "empty market niches." The more that I've investigated motorhomes, the more I've become convinced that the conventional motorhome industry in North America is out to lunch. And I've come to the conclusion that if quite a few active, elderly couples are willing to spend 4 or 5 million on a Gunboat or an FPB, many more would be willing to spend 1.5 to 2 million USD on a large Class A that could truly travel the whole planet.
Watching the following recent videos created by the Wynns was sweet vindication: they confirm pretty much everything I have been saying in this thread.
For instance, that the American motorhome industry is extremely conservative, and very slow to change. That the existing customer base of elderly retired Americans have terrible taste, and a preference for interior design that's at least 40 or 50 years out of date. That because of this unfortunate demographic legacy, existing motorhome manufacturers feel constrained to design for their "base", not venturing too far forward for fear of alienating existing customers and undermining brand loyalty – see http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/resurrecting-dinosaurs-wynn-custom-rv , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/category/rvin/resurrecting-dinosaurs , and http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/rv-modifications-technology :
The Wynns, by way of contrast, are a young American couple who have excellent taste. Jason Wynn is a photographer and Nikki Wynn is a make-up artist; they've both travelled extensively in Europe; so let's just say that their aesthetic standards are probably much more demanding than most elderly Americans.....:ylsmoke:
The design that the Wynns finally arrived at in the videos above is by far one of the most beautiful American motorhome interiors I've yet seen. It still has a few defects, like the horrible "grandma's kitchen" beveling on the cupboard fronts. But as the Wynns very clearly state in these videos, the cupboard fronts with American-colonial beveling were not their choice. If it had been their choice, they would have preferred clean, European-style cupboards. The Wynns wanted the exact opposite of "grandma's kitchen", and for the most part they succeeded admirably in getting it, pushing Fleetwood Motorhomes to the very limit of its design capability.
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CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
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:sombrero: :sombrero:
Hi adam88,
Probably the opposite of the Unibomber, because I'm a pacifist, and I've always loved and still love technology....:coffeedrink:
Putting the same point more philosophically, I am a humanist, I see humans as an important and valuable evolutionary development, and I very much reject the philosophical movements known as "Neo-Luddism", "Anarcho-Primitivism", and "Deep Ecology", the movements that largely inspired the Unibomber -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Luddism , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_ecology , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewilding_(anarchism) , https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-what-is-anarcho-primitivism , http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-do-the-anarcho-primitivists-want-to-abolish-civiliz-1633477541 , http://fee.org/articles/is-the-unabomber-an-ecobomber/ , and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski . As written earlier in the thread, my own view is that the ultimate, non-proximate causes of the ecological crisis run very deep, and are inextricably woven into who and what we are as creatures. We are the first emergence of fully self-conscious, rational, tool-using, language-using, and culturally plastic Mind on earth. Any emergence of advanced Mind will inevitably mess up the ecosystem, at least at first, on any planet that has enough evolutionary history and enough complexity of Life to generate such Mind. So for me the solution is more Mind, not less; the solution is making an effort to use our Science and Technology to achieve an ecologically "steady state" form of civilization dedicated to humane ends, and a civilization that simultaneously allows local and planetary ecosystems to recover. Whereas the Unibomber's deepest wish was to bomb humanity back to the stone age.
For a longer discussion, see post #2441, sections 1 and 2, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=2016565#post2016565 .
********************************************
1. Gone with the Wynns
********************************************
As for "obsessed with campers..... ", take a look at the videos below made by the Wynns. They have great documentary value, because they nicely capture the problematic that this thread is dealing with. For the Wynns' website, see http://www.gonewiththewynns.com , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/about , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/map , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/rvin , and https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...5YKEqC5FqvTTqiC6XaTGiIr2G8T_bVE&v=sxHN1TiWPq0 .
I first got interested in expedition motorhome design mainly because globally capable boats created for elderly, adventurous, wealthy couples have already been done. In catamarans there's Gunboats, and in diesel-powered yachts there's FPB. See http://www.gunboat.com and http://www.setsail.com . Gunboats typically sell for 4 or 5 million USD (they are all-carbon-fiber construction, laid by hand), and FPB yachts begin at about 3 - 4 million USD for the 64-footer – see http://www.berthon.co.uk/fpb-motor-yacht/fpb-64/ and http://www.boatinternational.com/yachts-for-sale/fpb784--80919 . In terms of my personal background I am more of a sailor than an overlander. But as a transportation designer I will naturally be interested in what seem to be instances of "market failure", or "empty market niches." The more that I've investigated motorhomes, the more I've become convinced that the conventional motorhome industry in North America is out to lunch. And I've come to the conclusion that if quite a few active, elderly couples are willing to spend 4 or 5 million on a Gunboat or an FPB, many more would be willing to spend 1.5 to 2 million USD on a large Class A that could truly travel the whole planet.
Watching the following recent videos created by the Wynns was sweet vindication: they confirm pretty much everything I have been saying in this thread.
For instance, that the American motorhome industry is extremely conservative, and very slow to change. That the existing customer base of elderly retired Americans have terrible taste, and a preference for interior design that's at least 40 or 50 years out of date. That because of this unfortunate demographic legacy, existing motorhome manufacturers feel constrained to design for their "base", not venturing too far forward for fear of alienating existing customers and undermining brand loyalty – see http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/resurrecting-dinosaurs-wynn-custom-rv , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/category/rvin/resurrecting-dinosaurs , and http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/rv-modifications-technology :
The Wynns, by way of contrast, are a young American couple who have excellent taste. Jason Wynn is a photographer and Nikki Wynn is a make-up artist; they've both travelled extensively in Europe; so let's just say that their aesthetic standards are probably much more demanding than most elderly Americans.....:ylsmoke:
The design that the Wynns finally arrived at in the videos above is by far one of the most beautiful American motorhome interiors I've yet seen. It still has a few defects, like the horrible "grandma's kitchen" beveling on the cupboard fronts. But as the Wynns very clearly state in these videos, the cupboard fronts with American-colonial beveling were not their choice. If it had been their choice, they would have preferred clean, European-style cupboards. The Wynns wanted the exact opposite of "grandma's kitchen", and for the most part they succeeded admirably in getting it, pushing Fleetwood Motorhomes to the very limit of its design capability.
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CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
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biotect
Designer
..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST
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2. Hymer does it better
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However, for better or worse, watching the above videos I could not help but think,
See https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/highlights.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/mot...s/exterior-view-und-stowage-compartments.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/living-room.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/sleeping-room.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/kitchen.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/bathroom.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/mot...hlights.html?d751713988987e9331980363e24189ce , https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN1b2fbGuzLpLknqo4ergFg , and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL376649C796D4CAA2 :
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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST
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2. Hymer does it better
********************************************
However, for better or worse, watching the above videos I could not help but think,
See https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/highlights.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/mot...s/exterior-view-und-stowage-compartments.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/living-room.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/sleeping-room.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/kitchen.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/bathroom.html , https://www.hymer.com/en/models/mot...hlights.html?d751713988987e9331980363e24189ce , https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN1b2fbGuzLpLknqo4ergFg , and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL376649C796D4CAA2 :
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biotect
Designer
..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST
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The second-to-last video is in German, but the very last video, although tagged in Spanish, has voice-commentary exclusively in English, and provides a very good overview of Hymer as a company.
I am strongly tempted to email the Wynns a link to these posts. Except that I really like the Wynns, I want them to remain cheerful and happy (as they always are in their videos....
), and if they saw the above images, they would probably go through an extended bout of depression. They would probably pull their hair out, wondering why such motorhome interiors simply do not seem available in the United States for a reasonable price.
Although the Hymer pictured in the photographs is a top-of-the-line model, it does not have slide-outs, and it's only 8 m long overall in the extended version, or roughly 26 feet -- see https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/layouts-und-data.html . As such, this beautiful Hymer is 4 feet shorter than the Wynn's 30 foot Fleetwood. Also notice the exterior paint job on this Hymer: a single "swoosh" of exactly the kind that Nikki Wynn would have preferred. But here too Fleetwood did not fully embrace the Wynn’s more advanced design sensibility, and forced a few extra “swooshes” on them.....
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3. The American Motorhome Industry: A bunch of Dinosaurs (according to the Wynns….:sombrero:)
********************************************
At this point I no longer mind proclaiming my point of view very loudly, because the Wynns say exactly the same thing in their videos, only a bit more diplomatically. Or perhaps not so diplomatically: in these videos the Wynns explicitly describe the American motorhome industry as a bunch of dinosaurs. So I’ll add to that. You didn't pull any punches with your comment, Adam88, so I figured I would not pull any punches either. I've wanted to say all of this very directly for a while now, and the Wynns just gave me the perfect excuse.
If Americans like the Wynns can make such observations, then even by American standards of good taste, most American motorhome interiors absolutely suck **** from a design point of view. There are some major exceptions, like Airstream and Earthroamer. But otherwise, the dominant players in the American motorhome industry are horribly constrained by the wretched, retrograde, simply awful taste of the typical kind of elderly mid-western American who buys a motorhome. All of this comes out very clearly in the Wynns’ "Resurrecting Dinosaurs" videos.
It’s the aesthetically brain-dead customers who are calling the shots, and not necessarily the lead designers of American motorhomes at companies like Fleetwood, Winnebago, or Newmar. And all the more so at smaller boutique operations like Marathon and Newell, where apparently some owners themselves designed the god-awful ceilings -- see post #1961, section 26, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1962810#post1962810 :
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CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
.
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST
********************************************
The second-to-last video is in German, but the very last video, although tagged in Spanish, has voice-commentary exclusively in English, and provides a very good overview of Hymer as a company.
I am strongly tempted to email the Wynns a link to these posts. Except that I really like the Wynns, I want them to remain cheerful and happy (as they always are in their videos....
), and if they saw the above images, they would probably go through an extended bout of depression. They would probably pull their hair out, wondering why such motorhome interiors simply do not seem available in the United States for a reasonable price. Although the Hymer pictured in the photographs is a top-of-the-line model, it does not have slide-outs, and it's only 8 m long overall in the extended version, or roughly 26 feet -- see https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrierte/hymer-starline-s/layouts-und-data.html . As such, this beautiful Hymer is 4 feet shorter than the Wynn's 30 foot Fleetwood. Also notice the exterior paint job on this Hymer: a single "swoosh" of exactly the kind that Nikki Wynn would have preferred. But here too Fleetwood did not fully embrace the Wynn’s more advanced design sensibility, and forced a few extra “swooshes” on them.....
********************************************
3. The American Motorhome Industry: A bunch of Dinosaurs (according to the Wynns….:sombrero:)
********************************************
At this point I no longer mind proclaiming my point of view very loudly, because the Wynns say exactly the same thing in their videos, only a bit more diplomatically. Or perhaps not so diplomatically: in these videos the Wynns explicitly describe the American motorhome industry as a bunch of dinosaurs. So I’ll add to that. You didn't pull any punches with your comment, Adam88, so I figured I would not pull any punches either. I've wanted to say all of this very directly for a while now, and the Wynns just gave me the perfect excuse.
If Americans like the Wynns can make such observations, then even by American standards of good taste, most American motorhome interiors absolutely suck **** from a design point of view. There are some major exceptions, like Airstream and Earthroamer. But otherwise, the dominant players in the American motorhome industry are horribly constrained by the wretched, retrograde, simply awful taste of the typical kind of elderly mid-western American who buys a motorhome. All of this comes out very clearly in the Wynns’ "Resurrecting Dinosaurs" videos.
It’s the aesthetically brain-dead customers who are calling the shots, and not necessarily the lead designers of American motorhomes at companies like Fleetwood, Winnebago, or Newmar. And all the more so at smaller boutique operations like Marathon and Newell, where apparently some owners themselves designed the god-awful ceilings -- see post #1961, section 26, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1962810#post1962810 :
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CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
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