TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************


4. What the Wynns really want: a Class A, fully integrated Expedition Motorhome


********************************************


That's just the tip of the iceberg. Throughout their "Resurrecting Dinosaurs" videos the Wynns also complain that nobody seems to be designing motorhomes for people like them, and their thousands of followers. Th Wynns' needs are not just aesthetic, but also technological. Although the Wynns are still searching for a comprehensive vocabulary to describe what they want, in essence they want all the technological capabilities of an expedition motorhome, combined with all the creature comfort and spaciousness of an American Class A. The Wynns really like boondocking, they like staying on farms, and they don't like staying in RV campgrounds, where the "parking-lot experience" is now ubiquitous:






So in their videos it's clear that the Wynns are trying to square a circle: they are trying to turn a rather ordinary, low-price-point, gas-powered Class A motorhome, into something a bit more like a fully autonomous expedition vehicle that can boondock off-grid for extended spells. Hence their composting toilet, the roughly 1000 KW of solar on the roof of their latest motorhome, the very large battery bank, and their experimental test to see whether they can run their A/C off solar alone – see http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/off-grid-solar-rv-air-conditioning , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/tilt-rv-solar-panels , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/boondock-free-camp , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/roy-the-rv , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/rv-modifications-technology , https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG5YKEqC5FquFfv8wzgz3OuVpJbZWBh2H , etc. etc.:






********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
.

 

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************


5. Why current Expedition Motorhomes don't cut it


********************************************


Now one might think that the Wynns would be natural customers for the kinds of expedition motorhomes built by GXV or Earthroamer, the most prominent American builders of larger off-grid motorhomes. See http://globalxvehicles.com and http://earthroamer.com .

However, when one looks at Earthroamer's video of its newest motorhome's interior, it's abundantly clear why this vehicle would be a complete non-starter for the Wynns. Even though the video below documents Earthroamer's largest model currently available, and even though this expedition motorhome interior is very beautifully designed and top-notch, the fundamental problem is that it's still a non-integrated, box-on-the-back-of-a-truck design:



[video=vimeo;118072292]https://vimeo.com/118072292[/video] [video=vimeo;118072291]https://vimeo.com/118072291[/video]



Now compare the second video's “interior tour" directly above, to the video that began the series documenting the interior design of Wynn's new (2015) motorhome. Here it is again:






The Wynn's motorhome feels like a small apartment, whereas the Earthroamer interior feels exactly like what it is: the typical cramped camper box of a non-integrated expedition motorhome. The ultimate irony here is that the Earthroamer XV-LT-S shown in the video (“S” is for “Stretch&#8221, is somewhere between 25 to 28 feet long, so longer than the Hymer pictured in photographs above, and almost as long as the Wynn's new 30 foot Class A motorhome – see http://earthroamer.com/xv-lt/ .

Also notice in their videos how the Wynns are willing to be dead realistic about the amount of space and comfort they need, in order to full-time in a motorhome. They are clear that they need a Class A, of the kind that tows a small car or “TOAD”. Although the Wynn's blog is a success, they are still a young couple with limited funds, and so their size limit was 30 feet. They chose a cheaper gas-powered Class A made by Fleetwood, as opposed to a diesel model, which in the United States is usually more expensive.

After spending about 2 years on ExPo, I am now reasonably convinced that participants who advocate for a smaller motorhome size for multi-year full-timing are either:


(a) single men who don't have to worry about the psychological hurdles of sharing a small space with someone else for years

or

(b) they simply have never experienced what it's like for two people – i.e. a married couple – to full-time in a motorhome for years.


They are not working from the Wynn's experiential base, and so they falsely imagine that they could live, work, and enjoy themselves with their spouse for years in an interior the size of the Earthroamer shown above, or even smaller:



[video=youtube;sxHN1TiWPq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxHN1TiWPq0&index=1&list=PLG5YKEqC5FqvTTqi C6XaTGiIr2G8T_bVE[/video] [video=youtube;Pt36V_yHlIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt36V_yHlIA&list=PLG5YKEqC5FqvTTqiC6XaTGiI r2G8T_bVE&index=2[/video]






It would be interesting to know just how many ExPo participants have actually done what the Wynns are now doing: how many have sold their fixed home, and have made a commitment to living full-time in a motorhome as a couple. And whether they really could do the same as the Wynns have done not just for a few weeks or a few months, but continuously without stop, with no fixed residence to escape to, for at least 3 to 5 years.

One occasional participant in this thread, Rob Gray of Wothahellizat fame, has done exactly this with his wife, boondocking throughout Australia. But the Wothahellizat 1 was not exactly a small motorhome. Indeed, at 34 feet long overall it was even bigger than the Wynns' current motorhome -- see http://robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot1/specs/index.php . Apparently Rob and his wife may now be settling down for a spell, at least in so far as they are building a fixed house made out of shipping containers -- see http://www.robgray.com/graynomad/issues/index.php . Hope their sedentary lifestyle does not last too long, and that Rob designs and builds at least one more motorhome, to round things out with a trifecta.....


********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
.

 

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************


6. Wynning the World by TerraLiner


********************************************


A few times in this thread the question has come up, "Would there even be a market for a vehicle such as the TerraLiner?" After watching these videos made by the Wynns, you decide.

What has come to fascinate me most about the Wynn's website is just how much their concerns mirror my own.

For instance, they want the spacious comfort of a Class A motorhome with slide-outs, and the freedom to use it as just a "base camp", because their motorhome also tows a small car. And yet at the same time the Wynns are very clear that they prefer wild-camping and staying on farms, and they are not fond of RV parks. Hence, their keen interest in a variety of technologies that would allow them to boondock off-grid for as long as possible -- see for instance http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/rv-wild-camping , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/trona-pinnacles-wild-camping , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/alaska-canada-adventures , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/alaska-highway-free-camping-hot-springs , http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/highway-1-redwoods-camping-rv , and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG5YKEqC5FqtsI0uqhu8LHG8iVLmOWBLj :



[video=youtube;fWTc8rm5nzA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWTc8rm5nzA&list=PLG5YKEqC5FqtsI0uqhu8LHG8 iVLmOWBLj&index=7[/video]


All of the Wynns' videos combined make a beautiful argument for one of this thread's central theses: that a potentially significant market exists if motorhome manufacturers would only be willing to create a Class A fully integrated motorhomes that can, nonetheless, also drive bad roads and to some extent off-road in Second and Third-World countries.

My target market is a bit older than the Wynns, and at least to begin with, quite a bit wealthier – see posts #1983 to #1985 at http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/124789-TerraLiner-12-m-Globally-Mobile-Beach-House-Class-A-Crossover-w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1964731#post1964731 and following. But the simple demographic fact is that thousands of retired Americans and Europeans are now every bit as active and adventurous as the Wynns. The “active elderly” are a rapidly expanding group long recognized by demographers, marketers, and real estate agents, and many of them are millionaires with lots of accumulated excess capital. If they could travel the planet in a Class A motorhome, in the same way that the Wynns are currently traveling the United States, they would.

However, throughout their videos the Wynns keep asking a very simple question: Why is nobody designing and building a motorhome more suitable to the needs of full-timers like us? or the needs of more adventurous elderly people? A motorhome large enough for full-timing, but one that also comes equipped with serious boondocking capabilities? Apparently those who follow the Wynn's blog – again, they have thousands of followers – have been asking the same question....

Hence this thread. This thread has probably gained some traction for one simple reason: because a significant potential niche-market niche-exists, a niche that the motorhome industry is simply not serving.


********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
.

 

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************


7. All you need to know to follow this thread


********************************************


Although this thread is long, the idea is dead simple: a fully integrated, rather large motorhome towing a TOAD, that has all the interior spaciousness and comfort of an American Class A with slide-outs; but a motorhome that can nonetheless travel the world just like any expedition vehicle, and that could camp autonomously for months "off-grid" on farms, remote beaches, and public land, systematically avoiding RV campgrounds wherever possible. If you understand and are sympathetic to this basic idea, and if you watch the above videos by the Wynns, then you've grasped the whole thread, and no need to read most of it. If you don't understand this basic idea, or you are not sympathetic to it, then this thread will not be for you.

Also remember: this is a design thread, not a build thread. There is a difference. Transportation designers can't be Luddites, and we can't design an expedition motorhome even for limited batch-production based on a chassis + drivetrain that is 30 years old or more. Even if 15 identical vintage 6x6 chassis could be found, what happens after the first batch production run?

So if you can stomach the kinds of very direct observations just made in these posts, hope to hear from you in future! And just remember: it was the Wynns who repeatedly described the American motorhome industry as a bunch of “Dinosaurs”….:sombrero:

All best wishes,



Biotect


PS – Not much to be done about the images and videos with which this thread is packed. It’s a design thread, and so images are everything. The argument that I just made above, for instance, would not have been even ¼ as powerful, if I had not backed it up with pictures and videos that speak louder than words. Nobody in their right mind would ever describe the Hymer interior pictured above as “ugly”, and there is really no debate here: this Hymer interior is much more beautiful than anything produced by any American motorhome manufacturer.

I wasn’t being rhetorical: I honestly think that American designers and craftspeople simply do not have the ability to create the kinds of elegant, modernist-curvilinear interiors that Hymer is creating. It would be great to be proven wrong, but so far I have not seen any evidence to the contrary. The only American motorhome manufacturer that seems "occasionally" committed to more modernist-curvilinear design work in some parts of its coach interiors, is Newell -- see posts #1948 to #1963, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1962631#post1962631 to http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1962835#post1962835 . But Newell's target demographic has a very different, much higher acceptable price-point than Hymer's customers. In terms of target demographic Hymer is the Winnebago of Europe, whereas Newell coaches cost on average about 1.5 million USD.

So consider: if I had not shown you those Hymer pictures, would you be at all inclined to think that I may have a point?
...

 

[biotect]

I know, right? My old iPad can't handle it either. There's an option at the top, under Thread Tools, select the Show Printable Version option. This option doesn't load pictures nor videos so the page will load lighting fast on any of your devices. Pictures and videos are left as links so you can check them one at a time. Give it a try.

Hey, Biotect, you may want to add this advice to the first page of the thread (or threads when going the sub-forum route).

Hi Libransser,

Interesting advice; thanks for that.

I've now assembled a small team of volunteers to help me write the opening posts of the various sub-threads. Once most of those are finished we'll be moving to the much more “compartmentalized” format that you suggested, where each individual sub-thread will be much shorter. And at that point I will create a short "Sticky" that warns that because the TerraLiner is all about design, threads will be heavy with images and videos. After which a short list will follow of a few possible "fixes" for those who have old or slow computers.

Now to be honest, I am not convinced that thread length matters one bit, because ExPo only loads 10 posts at a time. I haven't noticed any degradation in thread performance for 2 years. The only thing I've noticed is that if I pack a cluster of 10 posts with lots of images and videos, then it takes longer to load. But this would be every bit as true for posts 41 – 50, as it would be true for posts 221 – 230. It's the number of videos and images in a given cluster of 10 that slows things down, and that may crash older and less powerful computers, not the length of the thread overall.

The solution to the "cluster density" problem is simple: open “Settings” on the toolbar at the top of the ExPo window, finds the “My Settings” menu; open “General Settings”, and under “Thread Display Options”, change to “Show 5 posts per page”. The forum default setting is 10 post per page, so switching to just 5 post per page should automatically solve the image/video density problem.

With that said, I can only repeat that this is a design thread, so images and videos are important. Without them, various lines of thinking cannot be communicated and developed.

So my reasoning runs something like the following. Often ExPo participants will have older and less powerful computers or phones because they do not work in the design professions or engineering. For word-processing and web-searching, computing power became thoroughly sufficient about 5 or 6 years ago. Since then only tablets have sold really well, and the market for ever-more-powerful personal computers has been shrinking. Apple now makes most of its money from iPhones and iPads, not iMacs, and certainly not MacBook Pro portables or desktop computers. Thee only people nowadays who buy a new desktop computer once every 3 or 4 years are designers and engineers, because the visual layout, drawing, and CAD software that we need to use could still run much better on a more powerful machine. Conversely, most people who are not designers or engineers have felft no work-pressure of life-pressure to upgrade for at least 6 years now, because a computer that merely allows them to read text-emails and do a bit of word-processing is good enough.

I then figure it's just as well if they can't read the thread. If someone does not have the computing power required to follow a thread like this, then it's probably not for them in any case. Those who only want to read and post short sound-bites of text are not the thread's intended audience.

In other words, I figure that computing-intensive nature of the thread may be a good thing, functioning as a built-in “filter”, perhaps weeding out those who don't need serious computing power in any case, because they do not work as designers or engineers. Whereas more recently most of those who've been posting regularly like yourself, safas, Haf-E, Iain, etc., well, you guys are all engineers, and that's probably exactly the reason why you have computers that can process this thread....:ylsmoke:

Or let me put the point another way: you seem to be assuming that I want the thread to be easily accessible to everyone who has an opinion. If you think about it for a moment, that would be a foolish thing to want. You must be familiar with the old joke:
"Opinions are like a**holes: everyone's got one." Whereas interesting insights, product discoveries, and claims backed up by genuine knowledge, links, images, and videos -- in other words, evidence -- that's a much rarer thing on the web. The honest truth is that I only want sincere participants who are willing to engage in and follow serious argument, and who actually can follow argument that sometimes gets a bit technical. I love it when Haf-E posts, for instance, because his command of the engineering and logistical issues is top-notch, and everything he posts advances the thought-processes of the thread. Same with safas, Joe Maninga, yourself, and quite a few others, like Iaian, Nick Disjunkt, Rob Gray, dwh, backwoods, etc. The occasional comments and insertions of Luke H and Silverado have also proven useful. Luke H's positing about the South-African Blaster, for instance, was invaluable, because it powerfully motivated me to think through mimetic forms of self-protection, which led to a discovery of "Vavilovian" mimicry.

But those who don't have the computing power or the patience to follow the argument as it has developed so far, what kind of useful contribution could they possibly make?

This may sound elitist, but actually it's not. Rather, it's just being realistic about how public web-forums actually work, forums in which only some participants will post thoughts, links, and images that truly advance a given thread. If for technological reasons this thread is only genuinely accessible to designers and engineers, for me that would not necessarily be a bad thing....

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[Libransser]

I've now assembled a small team of volunteers to help me write the opening posts of the various sub-threads. Once most of those are finished we'll be moving to a much more “compartmentalized” format, where each individual sub-thread will be much shorter. And that point I'll have a short "Sticky" that warns that because the TerraLiner is all about design, threads will be heavy with images and videos. After which I'll provide a short list of possible "fixes" for those who have old or slow computers.

I'm assuming the volunteers are not the participants of this thread, based on how busy the seem to be. Care to share a bit? Will there be new participants you rounded up in the real world?

The only thing I've noticed is that if I pack a cluster of 10 posts with lots of images and videos, then it takes longer to load. But this would be every bit as true for the cluster of posts 41 – 50, as it would be true for posts 221 – 230. It's the number of videos and images in a given cluster of 10 that slows things down, and that may crash older and less powerful computers, not the length of the thread overall.

Too bad the forum doesn't have implemented a lazy loading script. It would load the images and videos only when needed, instead of loading them all at once. Well... out of our control.

The solution to the "cluster density" problem is simple: open “Settings” on the toolbar at the top of the ExPo window, finds the “My Settings” menu; open “General Settings”, and under “Thread Display Options”, change to “Show 5 posts per page”. The forum default setting is 10 post per page, so switching to just 5 post per page should automatically solve the image/video density problem.

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. That will be the most balanced solution.

 

[Maninga]

Not sure if this has been bought up in the thread already. I was looking into DC motors for an electric car build I'm thinking about, came across these.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/australias-evans-electric-develops-in-wheel-ev-motor-93486

Company seems to be a bit quiet (the Evans Electric website doesn't show much), but if their product works could be a good candidate for TerraLiner. In wheel motors with electromagnetic braking, controls for torque vectoring, ABS etc and huge torque.

 

[safas]

Bio,
I remember that I owe you a number of answers. But I can't get myself to think things through, yet from time to time I stuble upon something you may find interesting. Just got another one:
A gas-turbine powered serial-hybrid prototype from GM:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tters-etv-also-avion-11732-94.html#post403508

 

[biotect]

Hi safas,

Nice link. The GM EV1 is a very interesting piece of automotive history. So much so, that it has generated a cult-following, and some fascinating "conspiracy theory" videos:



[video=youtube;KO9tJXxHHZw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO9tJXxHHZw [/video]


********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...
..

 

[biotect]

.
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************






As near as I can tell the GM EV1 was too much ahead of its time, because lithium-ion batteries had not yet matured enough, or so some will argue -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car? , http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2003/09/28/emissions_free_car_on_trial/ , http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com , http://www.pbs.org/pov/borders/2004/air/air_ev1.html , http://www.nbcnews.com/id/13418559#.VsstlHlclsg , http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=622 . There are loads of images and cutaway diagrams at http://evmuseum.com/EV1_images.html , and a full list of specifications at http://www.evchargernews.com/CD-A/gm_ev1_web_site/specs/specs_specs.htm :








********************************************


Only answer my questions when you have time, and feel motivated. Participating in this thread should not feel like "work". This is just a discussion forum in which a looser, more playful and open-ended tone should prevail. If on occasion I get a bit "rough" or "prickly", that's only because a few posters seem to pop up now and again who want to torpedo the whole thing. Who, in the tone of their comments, make it clear that they strongly dislike the very fact that such a design thread even exists.

safas, the only really burning question I have in play wright now is the following: would you know how to get more information about the Gallium Arsenide solar cells used by Bochum University's Solar Racers? The ones provided by Solar World?

Just a few links to the relevant website or a PDF describing these cells would be terrific. Links to discussion forums that merely mention these cells are less helpful, because they do not provide the necessary technical details. The ideal "find" would be detailed PDF data sheets about Solar World's Gallium Arsenide cells, data sheets of the kind that SunPower produces for its products -- see http://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpow...35-345-residential-solar-panels-datasheet.pdf or http://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpow...1-series-335-345-residential-solar-panels.pdf. That's the kind of information that would prove truly useful....:ylsmoke:

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[biotect]

Not sure if this has been bought up in the thread already. I was looking into DC motors for an electric car build I'm thinking about, came across these.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/australias-evans-electric-develops-in-wheel-ev-motor-93486

Company seems to be a bit quiet (the Evans Electric website doesn't show much), but if their product works could be a good candidate for TerraLiner. In wheel motors with electromagnetic braking, controls for torque vectoring, ABS etc and huge torque.

Hi Joe, good to hear from you!

I wonder how Haf-E would feel about in-wheel electric motors that would become fully submerged when crossing rivers, i.e. deep fording? Haf-E has been advocating 3 large Tesla motors mounted high up inside the chassis, away from all the mud and water-saturated "action" down below. Each Tesla motor would drive a more conventional axle with a cross-axle differential and diff locks. Whereas in-wheel electric motors would be directly exposed to the worst of the elements. So too, in-wheel electric motors would be subject to severe pounding on washboard. Whereas three electric motors mounted high up in the chassis would benefit from the comparative insulation of the chassis against vibration, protected by hydro-pneumatic shocks.

Haf-E, if you are reading this, it would be interesting to hear your response.

In addition to the problem of mud, water, and pounding when driving on washboard, I also wonder about things like changing the tires: would changing the tires prove considerably more complicated with in-wheel motors? And I wonder about the potential problem of breakage because of the stress on washboard. A single motor's housing must be able to support not only the weight of its share of the TerraLiner, but also more, whenever a bump causes one corner of the TerraLiner to bear down with much more than its "fair share" of weight. In other words, the motor housing itself in an in-wheel motor serves as a structurally important, load-bearding member. How successful will it be in that role, given that bad roads that have lots of washboard like the Tanami trail have been known to destroy truck-axles, including the axles of more than a few G-wagens? Perhaps I am not reading the geometry of an in-wheel motor properly. But it does seem as if the metal housing serves an important structural, load-barring function, and is not merely a cover to protect the contents of the motor.

Now axle breakage for an in-wheel motor won't be a problem, because to the extent that there is an exposed axle, it will be less than an inch long, leaving the motor housing and immediately connecting directly to the wheel spokes. But this may raise another problem. Would it be possible for medium-sized rocks got get caught between the turning spokes of the wheel and the fixed generator housing? Or between the wheel rim and the generator housing?

Sure, the TerrraLiner will have aerodynamic wheel covers:






But even with these aerodynamic wheel covers attached, it seems like rocks, mud, and other debris could enter from behind the wheel, mucking up the gap between the wheel rim and the outer shell of the electric motor.

In short, although having electric motors mounted inside the wheels sounds like a potentially great, space-saving solution, a solution that would also eliminate any need for axles or differentials, I would first want the above questions answered: questions about (1) the structural load-bearing capacity of the motor's housing; (2) electric motor survivability on the stress of washboard; and (3) electric motor/wheel rim resistance to jamming by rocks, debris, mud, etc. (or lack thereof).



********************************************


I then wonder how Le Tourneau mounts its electric motors in its diesel-electric "logger stackers" and "mining loaders", because surely it has been dealing with such problems for decades, and by now must have arrived at an optimal solution? I wonder whether Le Tourneau uses electric hub motors, or even in-wheel motors; or whether instead it has electric motors mounted higher up, away from the action, driving an axle + differential, as recommended by Haf-E? See posts #2019 to #2022 , at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1967200#post1967200 and following.

I suspect that Le Tourneau uses hub motors and possibly even in-wheel motors, because in the following PDF description of one of its stackers, it states that in 4-wheel drive configuration a 700 KW AC generator drives "NC-11 DC Traction Motors, 200 HP (Front)" and "C-10 DC Traction Motors, 100 HP (Rear)". Notice the plural, and see http://www.joyglobal.com/products/forestry-log-stackers , http://www.joyglobal.com/products/forestry-log-stackers/35-series-log-stackers , and http://www.joyglobal.com/docs/defau...uments/non-mining-products/3592.pdf?sfvrsn=26 :







So at the very least Le Tourneau seems to use hub motors. And if so, notice how these hub motors seem to be fully immersed under water in the first image above!

This is further confirmed by the product descriptions of Le Tourneau's mining wheel loaders, where each wheel is explicitly stated as having its own independent SR motor -- see http://www.joyglobal.com/surface-mining/wheel-loaders , http://www.joyglobal.com/product-details/l-950 , and http://www.joyglobal.com/docs/defau...50spec01_ph_l-950_specification.pdf?sfvrsn=24 :

Generator

• G100 SR generator Traction Motors
• B40A SR motor
• SR all wheel drive (independent SR motor for each wheel)

But each wheel also has its own in-wheel-mounted planetary gear train:

Planetary Gearing Model 35A

• In-line gear train mounted within the rim of the tire, transmitting power
from the traction motor through the tire/rim assembly.
• A three-stage planetary drive unit in each position
• Total reduction 96:1

So this sounds like some kind of cross between a hub motor and a full in-wheel motor. I then wonder how Le Tourneau designs things such that its diesel-electric vehicles can handle very dirty and wet operating conditions?

There are a few suggestions in the following two pages from their general "Product Overview" PDF -- see http://www.joyglobal.com/docs/defau.../en-g2wl01-0814-v1_wheel_loader.pdf?sfvrsn=24 . I am not an electrical engineers, so the detailed information provided in these two pages about the design of Le Tourneau's electric motors may only prove comprehensible to you, Joe, as well as safas and Haf-E:







But I did pick up on the mention of:

10. Pressurized axle housings: P&H pressurized axle housings enhance reliability by maintaining an air-cooled, dust-free environment for the traction motors and disc service brakes.

So if you are reading this, Haf-E, Le Tourneau seems to do exactly what you suggested: it houses the electric traction motors in special housings that are not only dust and one hopes moisture free, but that are also pressurized. I wonder who "P&H" is? A special manufacturer of such pressurized housings for electric motors?

This document also very clearly repeats the idea that each wheel has its own electric motor:

Joy Global [formerly Le Tourneau] is the only wheel loader manufacturer in the world to offer advanced electric drive across all wheel loader models. Each electric drive wheel is fully independent from the other positions, which results in the only true independent four wheel derive system in the wheel loader market.

By chance I also came across the following interesting PDF, which does a thorough analysis of all the possible "single points of failure" that might arise in a car that has 4 in-wheel motors, and possible "fault-tolerant" solutions to the same -- see http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:618588/FULLTEXT01 . Participants who are engineers should have no problem reading it....

Here is an image and some videos of the Evans in-wheel electric motor -- see http://www.evans-electric.com.au , http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/australias-evans-electric-develops-in-wheel-ev-motor-93486 , http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/01/in-wheel-ev-motor-from-evans-electric-unveiled-in-australia/ , http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/29/evans-electric-unveils-monster-in-wheel-motor-down-under/ , https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdbA5CpgaVHOBxjAg7Rs7KQ , and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0DEAD7182724B5BF:






[video=youtube;a17Lc8OzMZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a17Lc8OzMZI [/video]
[video=youtube;gnUGvfCkvbk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnUGvfCkvbk&list=PL0DEAD7182724B5BF&am p;index= 10[/video] [video=youtube;ba7o_VcWY90]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba7o_VcWY90&list=PL0DEAD7182724B5BF&index= 11[/video]



********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...
..

 

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************


In addition, here are some images and videos from anther manufacturer of in-wheel electric motors, Protean, a company that has also created a joint-prototype with Mercedes and Brabus -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protean_Electric , http://www.proteanelectric.com , http://www.proteanelectric.com/vehicle-applications/ , http://www.proteanelectric.com/a-new-paradigm/ , http://zh.proteanelectric.com/what-...tor-design-a-company-to-watch-highgear-media/ , http://www.proteanelectric.com/prot...technical-presentation-at-sae-world-congress/ , http://www.proteanelectric.com/prot...sae-all-wheel-drive-symposium-in-plymouth-mi/ , http://articles.sae.org/9493/ , http://www.dailytech.com/Michigan+Company+Develops+InWheel+Electric+Motor/article25211.htm , http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/17/proteans-in-wheel-electric-motors-coming-to-market-in-2014/ , http://spectrum.ieee.org/transporta...-of-inwheel-electric-car-motors-goes-to-china , http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=30033 , http://www.dailytech.com/Michigan+Company+Develops+InWheel+Electric+Motor/article25211.htm , https://asimov52.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/protean-traction-in-wheel-technology/ , http://tec.ieee.org/drivetrains/pro...the-game-for-hybrid-and-electric-powertrains/ , http://www.ecofriend.com/proteans-in-wheel-motor-technology-will-it-actually-deliver.html , http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/17/protean-electric-production-ready-in-wheel-electric-drive/ , http://www.gizmag.com/protean-elect...ctric-drive-system-for-hybrids-and-evs/27110/ , http://www.nanalyze.com/2014/03/proteans-unique-100hp-in-wheel-electric-motor/ , http://insideevs.com/protean-teams-up-with-volkswagen-to-develop-production-in-wheel-electric-motor/ , http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=30048 , http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=29632 , http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=28314 , http://www.autoevolution.com/news/w...el-electric-motor-comes-from-japan-96293.html , and http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/In-Wheel-Electric-Drive-System :









********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...
..

 

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************










********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...
..

 

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************








********************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...
..

 

[biotect]

..
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

********************************************




[video=youtube;492IVJBdRd4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jKZgnn2Bf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=492IVJBdRd4 [/video]



There are even more Protean videos on the web, but this initial sample should suffice. The first two videos in particular do a good job documenting the wide variety of tests that the Protean electric motor has been subject to. As near as I can tell they have not yet simulated driving on washboard for days. But nonetheless the tests so far seem very rigorous.

There's just one problem. The Protean electric motor seems to be sized only for cars and pick-up trucks. It would be interesting to know whether Protean has any plans to scale up the motor for full-sized truck applications. Protean seems like a very serious company, with significant financial backing. Haf-E and safas: I'd be curious to know what you think........

All best,


Boitect