The bigger the truck, the greater the (misplaced?) concern about payload?

[Porkchopexpress]

Gotta admit I would love to see the specs on that. Can’t find anything on the ford website that goes into that level of detail. Where did you find that?

I have read the same thing on Tremor and Ford Truck forums. Members have checked part numbers on the Tremor F250 rear leaf springs and supposedly they are the same as the standard SRW F350 and F350 Tremor. The Ford website where you can configure options definitely doesn't go into that much detail.

 

[tacollie]

Might want to look at that Document again.
Or check out post 56.

It's a misprint. It should say Sterling 10.5 and Dana m275. The Dana is the heavier duty axle.

 

[TexasSixSeven]

Regardless of what axle or motor the truck has, an F250 or F350 is not even remotely close to being limited by its hardware. The limiting factor on these trucks is the little yellow sticker on the door.

 

[calicamper]

While anecdotal, I believe much of the mid size crowd does look at their vehicles and what the payload/capability ratings are in the rest of the world. Many vehicles throughout Europe are used to tow trailers. Seeing a VW or Mercedes station wagon towing a travel trailer (or horse trailer) in Europe is not uncommon. A mid size truck for many in Europe does duties that US people would only ever use a HD truck. So a mid size truck is a very capable machine.

The big difference comes as many have noted from the regulatory restrictions and how the vehicles "can" be operated. In the US everyone wants to pull their travel trailer or drive their overloaded Tacoma at 75+ mph. Crazy!!!! So you have to now adjust the vehicles legal capability.

In Europe many countries restrict personal vehicles towing not only to a max speed (regardless of a higher road speed limit) but even lower limits depending on the type of road. If you are driving in an urban area it is usually limited to 30 mph and highways 50-60 mph (country dependant). I believe Australia is similar but I have no experience there.

This adjustment I believe allows other countries to rate these mid size vehicles higher and the US lower. The view from some midsize owners is that if it can do "x" in Europe or Australia then it can it is just US nanny state that keeps them from having fun. In reality the other limitations that these governments impose (speed, different following distances, etc) allow them more freedom in the capacity of their vehicles. So it is a give and take. However, those US owners want their Tacoma to haul the same as their worldwide brethren while still doing 75+ on the highway and manage crazy US urban driving.

US mid sized rigs are not the same frame found in other countries. The US mid sized frames get fused aka redesigned to bend at the cab/bed for crash standards. Its no surprise to see US mid sized trucks bent like a banana towing heavy Australian style trailers at speed in the desert.

 

[Porkchopexpress]

US mid sized rigs are not the same frame found in other countries. The US mid sized frames get fused aka redesigned to bend at the cab/bed for crash standards. Its no surprise to see US mid sized trucks bent like a banana towing heavy Australian style trailers at speed in the desert.

This is why the Hilux is sold everywhere but North and South America and we get the Tacoma. But supposedly the Tacoma is also lighter and gets better fuel economy.

 

[UglyViking]

Didn't take long before this dropped down to a 3/4 vs 1-ton fight due to GVWR/payload huh guys?

I can't speak to the current iteration of the ford, but previous iterations the difference was basically just the sticker. Most F250s on dealer lots near me had the exact same axle, brakes, etc. as the f350s sitting next to them. For the longest time I thought they were the same minus the blocks as mentioned, and on higher payload f350s they got an overload spring.

I know for a fact the only difference between the ram 2500 and 3500 is coil vs leaf. SRW to SRW truck they are basically identical in every way. They use the same axle, although I believe the axle rating is slightly different between the two of them. Mind you, the AAM axle they use is rated at something like 11k from AAM and only 6-7k in the Ram, so there is your sign.

I know a lot of the guys on the HD truck forums, and RV forums especially, will have constant battles about the payload numbers, safety, etc. It always comes down to the discussion of "will insurance cover you in the event of something happening". From what I've seen, there are about 100 to 1 2500 trucks being overloaded on the daily, and I've never heard of someone ending up in trouble for overloading their truck. Could it happen? Sure, but you could also be held liable for an accident if you were underloaded for being negligent. Is it likely to happen? Not from what I've seen. Choose your risk and go with it. Add airbags if it makes you feel better, or upgrade your brakes.

As for overloading midsize trucks vs HD trucks. I honestly think the vast majority of midsize truck guys don't know what payload even is. Especially with the Jeep and Taco crowd it's about how many cool aftermarket off road accessories you can slap on your truck that matters. One of the consistent upgrades I see is guys upgrading their springs to better support the weight, upgraded brakes, etc. So they are taking the weak parts and upgrading them to make them more stable, better able to stop, etc.

Payload numbers for most midsize trucks are pretty small, but I think it's mostly a classification thing, not a engineering thing.

It's also pretty crazy how up in arms some people get about payload numbers. By the letter of the law, you can upgrade your 1 ton truck with super light springs, toss a roof rack and overload the rack way up top and be a-ok legally. However, going over the payload numbers, even if you're keeping weight down low, or upgrading the suspension and brakes to better handle it, is somehow not ok.

 

[IdaSHO]

The fact that MFGs or Dealers are actually placing a payload placard on a truck is a simple example of how wild things have become.

Payload is a VERY simple number. Its max GVWR minus curb weight. Nothing more, nothing less.
But instead, the MFG places some silly payload rating on it. When passengers alone contribute to the figure, let alone big bumpers, winches, oversized tires, etc.

 

[Grasslakeron]

The f250 and f350 gets the sterling axle in the srw setup as long as you don't order the 4.30's. The 4.30's get you the Dana m275. Payload is almost 2000 lbs difference between the two. My 350 has a 4741 lb payload rating compared to 2876 lb in the 250.

 

[Regcabguy]

While I was having my suspension upgraded at CJC they told me that the biggest difference between the 250 & 350 is the air pressure in the tires (80psi in my stockers!) and the sticker saying the GVR numbers! I kind of feel like I could have just bought a 250 and saved on the taxes etc.

The 350's have an overload spring and stronger front coils. As far as brakes go you'd have to go to Rock Auto or similar and check.

 

[tacollie]

The 350's have an overload spring and stronger front coils. As far as brakes go you'd have to go to Rock Auto or similar and check.

You can get the F250 with the same could and leafs with the certain packages. My F250 has the larger leafs. The brakes are the same until you get over a certain GVWR(I think it's 11,800lbs). Then they get hydroboost brakes.

 

[Todd780]

Agree with all…I’m just trying to remember the last time I saw 250/350 or a 2500/3500 with a broken frame between the cab and bed due to overloading… ?

It happens.

 

[Grasslakeron]

It happens.

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[ramblinChet]

I know a lot of the guys on the HD truck forums, and RV forums especially, will have constant battles about the payload numbers, safety, etc. It always comes down to the discussion of "will insurance cover you in the event of something happening". From what I've seen, there are about 100 to 1 2500 trucks being overloaded on the daily, and I've never heard of someone ending up in trouble for overloading their truck.

For me the question is a different one - is it the right thing to do, or not?

I am just like most of you and many times each day I ask myself is this the right thing to do or the wrong one? I do my very best to always select the right thing although I am far from perfect. If someone makes a conscious decision to overload their vehicle and understands the potential consequences then they have made the wrong choice.

If we deconstruct the decision and begin to argue about insurance, axle ratings, etc., we are lying to ourselves.

 

[DRAX]

Something else to consider is that most people that buy mid-size or F-150 trucks probably don't know much of anything about payload, GVWR, GCWR, etc. Countless times I've had people wonder why their truck is sagging when they've loaded up the bed of the truck but haven't "exceeded the payload capacity of the bed." They think cargo = only in the bed. The sticker is pretty clear, but some people just care about the numbers. Or care about what the commercial said the max payload rating was. Or don't care at all. I'd wager quite a few more people that buy 3/4-ton and up trucks know at least a little more about weight ratings if they're planning on using it for towing/hauling and that's why they seem to care more than the mid-size folks.

Load up 650LB of people and there goes roughly half of the payload available with some mid-size trucks.

My Canyon started out with 1,212LB of payload capacity. I then built it up for overlanding/towing off-road, suspension work and frame stiffening was done. It still officially and legally only has 1,212LB of payload, and it handles that just great now and without my wife in the truck but with everything loaded and hitched up I'm roughly 25LB under GVWR and still have a bit of cushion with GAWRs. My wife doesn't weigh 25LB, so when it's a family trip it does end up going over the rated GVWR but is still under GAWRs since the GVWR isn't the sum of GAWRs here.

This is the smallest truck I've owned and from the start I've always worked to stay within the weight ratings because it's been pushing it at times. All this to say, knowing what I know and owning/doing what I have I really doubt your typical mid-size truck owner, or probably even "overlander" in general, has any clue about weight ratings and the clue they do have isn't enough to actually be useful since it's just one piece of the puzzle, so that clue ends up being misused and bad assumptions are made.

There will always be the "load 'er up until she's on the bumpstops" people in all classes of vehicles, though.

 

[mountainsports2002]

Carry less stuff and it is a moot point.