The importance of a rear dust light in the southwest.

[DaveInDenver]

I would prefer amber, as I see it as a caution color that most road work or assistance vehicles. Also like amber turn signals over over red, I find them easier to see...amber/yellow pretty much is universally know for caution rather than stop.

I think the problem with steady amber is that implies you're looking at the front of a vehicle. If you have your regular corner marker/tail lights on then you'd presumably see the red and amber, but it may still be confusing.

Everyone (in the U.S.) regardless if they are a desert racer, ski traffic or soccer mom realizes steady red is a tail light. I'm thinking primarily in dense fog when you're essentially turning on a high intensity tail light.

If you encounter /either/ a very bright rear facing red or amber in a dust cloud I think the point would be made off highway.

Now if you make it flash I think that is also universal (in the U.S. again) that would mean a warning. Similar to your four-ways, which I used to turn on climbing steep grades on the Interstate with my old truck. Those you're supposed to technically turn on any time you are below the Interstate minimum of 45 MPH here in Colorado (maybe elsewhere).

 

[Clutch]

I think the problem with steady amber is that implies you're looking at the front of a vehicle. If you have your regular corner marker/tail lights on then you'd presumably see the red and amber, but it may still be confusing.

Everyone (in the U.S.) regardless if they are a desert racer, ski traffic or soccer mom realizes steady red is a tail light. I'm thinking primarily in dense fog when you're essentially turning on a high intensity tail light.

If you encounter /either/ a very bright rear facing red or amber in a dust cloud I think the point would be made off highway.

Now if you make it flash I think that is also universal (in the U.S. again) that would mean a warning. Similar to your four-ways, which I used to turn on climbing steep grades on the Interstate with my old truck. Those you're supposed to technically turn on any time you are below the Interstate minimum of 45 MPH here in Colorado (maybe elsewhere).

Yes, I was thinking of a flashing amber. Pretty much universal sign of caution.

Heck Dave, do you think I need to turn on the flashers when I drive the speed limit? As I set the cruise at the speed limit no matter where I go, and people pass me like I am standing still...think I should get an orange AG triangle just for good measure.

 

[DaveInDenver]

You don't realize just how fast people go until you're climbing at 11,000' with maybe 85 HP in a 5,500 lbs throwback. I mean, seriously, people flying past you going 40 MPH faster really is like you're standing still. It's probably why I don't notice the "lack" of power the 1GR-FE has, I still feel a little uncomfortable at 75 MPH.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I think its funny, that the forum which obsesses over "campsite perimeter security" and safety is generally a guiding principle, would ridicule the idea of a dust light simply to allow you to be seen by other vehicles.

.
I think you need to go back and re-read the "campsite perimeter security" thread. Far from being supportive, most of "the forum" gave the original poster a ton of crap (IMO deservedly) for his obsession with "campsite security" and his fear of Mexican Navy SEALs sneaking up on his campsite to murder his dog and steal his ARB refrigerator or pork rinds or precious bodily fluids or whatever it was he was obsessing about guarding.
.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that it's a minor addition with safety upside. I'm considering adding one, the fog and snow visibility convinced me.
.
I just don't know which to add because our state vehicle code seems to indicate picking the wrong one is a class B infraction. It sound like to me that it must be amber to red color, they don't want it being white. But I also read that turn indicators may be yellow and that rear markers and illumination must be red.

.
As far as a rear visibility light goes, as long as you're not running it on the highway (since it's a dust light, why would you need to?) the state couldn't care less. I see people with rear facing white lights which I assume are either back up lights or campsite illumination lights. In fact, I've thought of doing so myself for campsite illumination.
.
For fog lights on the highway (IMO much more useful than "dust lights" which sounds like a term made up by the marketing people at some off-road accessory company) red would seem to be the appropriate color anyway.

 

[DaveInDenver]

As far as a rear visibility light goes, as long as you're not running it on the highway (since it's a dust light, why would you need to?) the state couldn't care less. I see people with rear facing white lights which I assume are either back up lights or campsite illumination lights. In fact, I've thought of doing so myself for campsite illumination.
.
For fog lights on the highway (IMO much more useful than "dust lights" which sounds like a term made up by the marketing people at some off-road accessory company) red would seem to be the appropriate color anyway.

Such a light would be for several uses, one being on road use and least critical of which is dust roostertails. I definitely see the utility during heavy fog or snow and I don't have any desire to put two different lights or even have to carry two lenses. I'm already thinking about where to drill a hole in my back bumper or in the topper for it to be honest.

 

[Clutch]

Such a light would be for several uses, one being on road use and least critical of which is dust roostertails. I definitely see the utility during heavy fog or snow and I don't have any desire to put two different lights or even have to carry two lenses. I'm already thinking about where to drill a hole in my back bumper or in the topper for it to be honest.

Like the idea of on the inside of the topper at the top of the rear window.

Maybe not this many...

Link to build: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/36571-RSB-s-Radiant-Red-Tacoma-build

 

[Martinjmpr]

Seems a shame to lose some candlepower to the tinting, though.
.
OTOH, much easier to wire up and no worries about thieves or Mexican Navy SEALs stealing your lights when you're not around. :sombrero:

 

[Clutch]

Seems a shame to lose some candlepower to the tinting, though.

Cops in stealth mode (here) have the lights on the inside of their tinted windows...can see them an awfully long ways away. LEDS are so fricken bright...don't see it as an issue.
.

OTOH, much easier to wire up and no worries about thieves or Mexican Navy SEALs stealing your lights when you're not around. :sombrero:

Ha ha!

 

[Martinjmpr]

Cops in stealth mode (here) have the lights on the inside of their tinted windows...can see them an awfully long ways away. LEDS are so fricken bright...don't see it as an issue.
.

.
Actually, the more I look at that the more it makes sense. If the lights are attached to the roof of the shell rather than affixed to the window, then that means you could swing the liftgate window up and use the lights to illuminate the campsite.

 

[OCD Overland]

All this has been studied in depth, so there's really no need to speculate - a few good things to know:

Red vs Amber:
• Red light has the longest wave length so of all the colors is least likely to scatter in fog or dust; i.e., it will be visible for the farthest distance and will be the clearest regardless of distance.
• Red light is the least likely color to produce glare or be blinding to other drivers.
• Studies have shown that psychologically, people see amber lights as "somewhat hazardous", while Red lights are seen as "extremely hazardous".
• Similar studies have shown that people are much more likely to slow for a Red light vs Amber. (Blue works best, actually, since people instinctively don't want to get a ticket, lol)
• People also have come to associate Red lights with vehicles that are stationary, slowing or moving the same direction as they are, while Amber lights are ambiguous in that regard.

Strobe vs Solid:
• Strobe lights attract the most attention, but give very poor indication of distance and direction.
• The old style rotating lights actually do a decent job of indicating distance and direction.
• The multiple light light-bar type warning lights are associated with moving vehicles and so work poorly with stationary vehicles; i.e., if they're stationary people will make very late decisions on braking or avoiding when they approach them.
• Combination solid plus strobe, or rotating plus strobe seems to work best for attracting attention while also giving info on distance and direction.

So, Red is best for multiple reasons. Strobes are out, unless you combine them with a solid light - it's important in this regard that the strobe doesn't "overwhelm" the solid light; i.e, don't go crazy with the brightness or strobe effects since it can be dazzling and disorienting and that's not what you want to do to the guy in the three ton truck who's trying to pass you in a dust cloud. In fact, one assumes that the driver behind doesn't really need his attention grabbed - he should be well aware that there's a vehicle in that dust cloud somewhere and what he really wants is to know where it is and how fast it's moving.

For me then, I'd go with a single solid red light with no strobe. Two would probably provide better info on speed and direction as well as be more visible, but two could also be confused with brake lights or make my brake lights less conspicuous in contrast. In addition to the above, as a bonus I can use it on the highway as a rain or fog light. I'm a bit on the fence over a strobe, but at the end of the day I'd rather the approaching driver have his attention fully on what he's doing without having my strobe light constantly distracting him. For dense fog, on the other hand, I can see where a simple strobe might help, especially if you're moving very slowly relative to other traffic.

 

[Martinjmpr]

BTW I don't think anyone (including me) is dismissing that a rear facing light can be useful, what we're dismissing is that such a light is a "neccessity" as the OP stated in his first post.
.
Considering that he then doubled down with the laughable assertions that driving too slow would cause someone with a high-dollar suspension to lose control (huh?) and that people have only "recently" started taking unmodified vehicles into the desert, well, I can see why this thread went off the rails like it did.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Excellent post OCD Overland.

 

[sargeek]

I believe a rear fog lights are legal in the US - And this would be the most effective multi-purpose safety item to install an a vehicle traveling. It works well in bad weather on-road during heavy snow and fog and conditions of limited visibility.

The only reason why I am glade that they are not installed on most US vehicles is that they would be miss used, and run all the time, like most Americans do with their OEM fog lights. If they do bring them, it should be latched on, and defaults to off every time the car is shut off.

RANT (Courtesy has gone out the window - how many people drive their car at night using only the day time running lights: no marker lights or tail lights. Run with OEM fog lights 24/7; Don't understand high beams and when to dim them. Adding another light into the mix would confuse the majority of the public.)

The amber dust lights grew out of desert racing, and are standard for that community- - it would be an easy stretch for off road situation, but would confuse the majority of the public. Cool idea, and I think it has a place. I think if someone has time and resources it would be a fun addition. I still like the compact size of the LED Warning lights developed for police vehicles and with a little work one could wire them to steady burn, alternate flash, or simultaneous flash. I also believe that most states would not care about additional amber flashing lights to the rear.

 

[frojoe]

I don't have a vehicle that goes in that kind of dust, but if I did I would personally go for an LED square white light (spot or flood, not sure), with changeable red and amber lenses, and mount the light on a back of a roof rack (high up), but on a pivot with a fabricated/oversize wingnut, so the angle could be adjust to turn it into a back/campsite light with no lens on it. I would control it with a 3-position switch.. 1 = off, 2 =on with brake lights (for use with red lens only), and 3 = on all the time. Just my engineery $0.02 after reading all of this discussion, and the mindset of modularity for multiple uses/scenarios.

 

[MagicMtnDan]

AMBER is the defacto standard color for rear-facing lights used in off road desert racing