The Other Black Rifle...

[Haggis]

How much rattle does the ball have with no wadding then? It must have some if any clogging can happen at all?

Theres no rattle, its an interference fit. The maxi ball fits snuggly enough enough to contain the intial explosion and the grease allows the ball to rammed down the barrel. You would almost have to have a chance to ram a ball down to understand, its hard to convey a tactile sensation through written words. The grooves of on a maxiball allow the ball to expand with the pressure of the charge and to be forced into the rifling of the barrel and thus fully containing the energy of the explosion. This is one reason a maxi ball travels farther and hits harder over the round ball, it is more forcefully pressed into the rifling of the bore than that of a round ball. This is also why a round ball tends to be a little more inaccurate at longer ranges, it isn't imparted with as much spin from the rifling as the others. The round ball engages the rifling after the charge goes off, the cotton patch partially burns away allowing the ball to expand into the rifling. The expansion of the projecticle into the rifling is why a rifle needs cleaned, its not so much the powder residue but the lead build up in the rifling when a shot is fired. The plastic sabot at the bottom of the power belt round is the expansion sealing part of that round yet it allows enough energy into the copper coated slug to firmly engage the rifling. The nice thing about the powerbelt is that since its cooper sheathed it does not foul the bore as much as a lead round. This allows you to shot two or three more rounds without cleaning if you must.

Although one big grain has more energy than one small one, small grains will be denser so you can get a bigger weight of small grains behind the ball, so I don't get that, and have no large tomatoes. I'll get some tomorrow to experiment

The potential energy in the larger grain powder is expotentially greater than a smaller grain so even if you have two charges that weigh the same and share the same volume the coarse grain will be more powerful. That's why cannons use even coarser powder than a shoulder fired arme.

Do all three in your pic use the same wadding, or no wadding with the plastic bits?

The round ball is used with a cotton patch, the maxiball uses no patch but is greased to ease the interference fit, the plastic is "smooth" enough to be rammed down the bore without needing to be greased and it deforms into the rifling to make the interference fit.

 

[Dave Bennett]

Since we're talking black powder fun, what are say the top ten rifles that inspire you guys?

Pics too please!

Ahem...

 

[Haggis]

Since we're talking black powder fun, what are say the top ten rifles that inspire you guys?

Pics too please!

Okay, to quit getting harassed by Dave, I’ll post a couple of my guns up...

This is the Kentucky long rifle that was my first black powder gun. I built from a CVA kit way back when I was around 12 or 13 years old. I killed a bunch of deer with this gun and a whole parcel of squirrels. Since then I’ve built a couple more.

This next one is the gun I won many a shooting match with. It started out as a standard Thompson Center Hawken percussion rifle and I tricked it out with a custom trigger set, a Green Mountain custom barrel (.45 cal) with a higher twist and better iron sites.

You’ve already seen my hunting rifle (a customized Thompson Center Renegade in .54 cal) for flintlock season in the first post so here is my CVA Optima inline muzzleloader (.50 cal) that I use in the early inline muzzle season in September…Yeah, it’s too modern and too black but that’s what is legal for that time of the year and its deadly accurate.

And that’ all I’m gonna share here…:elkgrin:


As far as my inspiration I think it would be my love of history. And once, here in the hills and hollers of where I live, this use to be the frontier. A lot of the backwoods frontier fighting took place here during the French and Indian wars. As a kid my dad would take me to historic trapper rendevzous (we use to do a lot of trapping) and I loved seeing all the re-inactors in their garb and the firing demostrations. Add to that the Longstocking stories and the Jerimah Johnson movie and I was hooked.

My favorite guns are the Pennsylvaina Long rifle, the Kentucky rifle, the blunderbuss (just 'cause its fun to say), and the old fowling shotguns.

 

[grizzlyj]

Thank you muchly

 

[Dave Bennett]

Nice. You're obviously a fan of "Last of the Mohicans", one of the best films of all time

 

[Haggis]

"Stay alive..I will find you!" is my wife and I's standard parting phrase.

I guess with the whole black powder thing, living in a log cabin and having the house decorated in animal parts might be a dead give away. :ylsmoke:

Everybody sing..."He uses antlers in all of his decorating...Oh what a guy....Haaaaggis!"

 

[wile e coyote]

Here's my front-stuffer and the latest critter to end up on the wrong end of it. Cabela's caplock Hawken in .54 cal. Home-cast Maxi-balls and 105gr Pyrodex RS did the trick.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Haggis]

Nice...thats one of my goals someday. Taking a bull elk with a smoke pole.

 

[grizzlyj]

"Stay alive..I will find you!" is my wife and I's standard parting phrase.

I guess with the whole black powder thing, living in a log cabin and having the house decorated in animal parts might be a dead give away. :ylsmoke:

Everybody sing..."He uses antlers in all of his decorating...Oh what a guy....Haaaaggis!"

Animal parts OK, but how often to you get Scandinavian tourists passing to get the shield?

 

[Haggis]

Silly Englishman...that's a Scottish targe from right there in the northen part of yer island. :elkgrin:

 

[grizzlyj]

Looked a bit Viking to me

British not English

 

[007]

Thank you Haggis, I like your style!

I failed my first black powder rifle as a kid by not cleaning it properly. Shamefully, I abandoned the idea and moved on. After reading your post, I realized that I'm missing out.

Question for you, after you've charged the rifle for a hunt, (assuming you didn't take a shot) when do you fire the rifle to unload it? is there a special term for this unloading shot? How long would you store a rifle loaded?

 

[Haggis]

Question for you, after you've charged the rifle for a hunt, (assuming you didn't take a shot) when do you fire the rifle to unload it? is there a special term for this unloading shot? How long would you store a rifle loaded?

You can keep the gun loaded for a couple of weeks as long as you store it in a dry location. Its not the best practice but with modern powders its not really that detrimental to the gun. Last year my step-brother forgot to discharge his after the January season and didn't realize it to this fall. He charged the pan after making sure the touch hole was clear and it fired right off. Than he tore it all down, soaked the barrel in a tub of solvent and gave it a good cleaning and a nice oiling, worked just fine this year. With the flintlock, I usually touch her off each night just out of years of habit. The inline uses Pyrodex pellets, basically slugs of compressed powder, for its charge and these can stay in the gun for much longer time periods. I usually will leave the inline charged until the end of early season which is only two weeks long, if I haven't taken a deer by then.

As far as a term for the unloading firing, its called discharging but we always called it the "Shot of Shame." :elkgrin:

This brings up two other points...

First, at least in the states I've hunted in, a black powder gun is considered unloaded as long as the ignition charge (frizzen charge or percussion cap) is absent from the rifle and the hammer is in the rest position despite there being a charge in the barrel.

Second in cases where you mucked up and the gun will not fire because of lack of maintainance or you forgot to put a powder charge in before ramming a ball in (it happens) you have three options. The first, if powder is absent, is to use a spiral ball puller which attaches to the female threads of your ramrod. You drill the puller into the ball and the by manly force pull the round up. This can be difficult at times. The second is to undo the nipple (percussion gun) or touch port (flintlock) and slowly add powder in behind the ball to charge the gun. This is nerve racking and must be done with extreme care. The best solution is to buy and have what's known as a load discharger which is basically a CO2 cannister that attaches to the nipple or is inserted into the touchhole to blow the charge and ball out.

 

[Tucson T4R]

My only black powder rifle is an 1863 Springfield .58 cal. This was handed down in my family and we still target shoot with it occasionally. Mucho fun. :elkgrin:

 

[Lynn]

Wow, thanks for the thread. You guys have me reflecting and dreaming.

When I was a kid (age 14 - 17, late '78 - '81) I was a counselor at a Boy Scout camp where several of the older staffers were into re-enactment / rendezvous. Sparked the imagination, and over the years, every once in a while, something still sparks that desire in me...

So now here I sit, once again, surfing the 'net and dreaming.

One of the staffers had a rifle that really impressed me as a stand-out from the ever-present Hawkins. I remember him saying it was an Enfield, but it was shorter than the 3-band Rocket-scientist mentioned. More Mountain Rifle length. Probably an 1858 2-band or 1861 Musketoon? And reading up on the 1861 Musketoon that sounds like a desirable rifle. Do you guys know if anyone offers it in kit form? Building a black powder rifle from a kit is part of that lingering desire I've had.

Also, I always thought a musket was smooth bore and a rifle was, well, rifled. However I see some repro's advertised as rifled muskets. So, what differentiates a musket? And I assume a Musketoon is a short version of a particular Musket?

I'll probably never have the fun coupons to fulfill this particular dream, but I still appreciate the thread, and any info you can share...

And, Tucson T4R, that's a really special heirloom. You suck.