The Snorkel's relevance to North American overlanding

[MOguy]

That's not an "oil bath" air filter. That's an "oil wetted" air filter. Different sort of beast.

Ok, I have the oil bath filter in my old tractor. Is that even an option for modern vehicles? I would think they would be more restrictive.

 

[dwh]

Ok, I have the oil bath filter in my old tractor. Is that even an option for modern vehicles? I would think they would be more restrictive.

Oh, they sell them in all sizes. Thousands of cfm if you need it.

And as for being an option...if someone is cutting holes and running pipes and adding pre-filters, I don't see why not.

Edit: Well...not having the space for it would be one reason why not.

 

[lugueto]

Most naysayers will say that people only get one to look cool. That you'll lose power (which is a lie) and start creating doubt with comments such as "well you're gonna get dust in there anyway" or "if you cross water deep enough to need one, the snorkel is not going to save you either". This is because they simply don't see the need so they assume no one else will.

Well, it seems that this is the thing that turned out to be most accurate from my first post? Ha.

 

[LMarshall73]

I've considered a snorkel for every off road vehicle I've owned since hydrolocking an engine when I was 18 or 19. Trails in Florida can be bone dry driving into camp on Friday afternoon and a brief rainstorm can turn those same trails into bogs when you are leaving on Sunday.
[video]https://youtu.be/AWbr31RR5bw[/video]

Also, my snorkel more than paid for itself as I made my way home after Hurricane Irma. YMMV

 

[MOguy]

My experience & seat of pants observation with oilbath, would believe less restrictive. But hard to qualify without side by side comparasin.
Oilbaths I use are prinarily coarse steelwool sort of fillings what seems like alot of space for air and lucky particles to pass thru. Vibration & air turbulance keeps oil splashing & washing dirt off the fillings. Dirt settles into its sump. One trip sucked in so much dirt & water, oil level became too high & notably reduced power, or at least throttle response. Also oil coated intake tubes far more than normal.

I have this style on my tractor. Never considered or my Jeep. Oil and water don't mix so it may help there also.

 

[Dalko43]

Well, it seems that this is the thing that turned out to be most accurate from my first post? Ha.

Actually, I think that statement of yours is full of conjecture. The main one being that there is no loss of power with a snorkel. The stock cold air intakes are designed for efficiency of air flow from the factory. I doubt a long aftermarket snorkel is going to be as efficient as the OEM-designed setup.

You may not notice the difference in power from the seat of your pants, but I'm willing to bet there is a difference nonetheless.

 

[LMarshall73]

Actually, I think that statement of yours is full of conjecture. The main one being that there is no loss of power with a snorkel. The stock cold air intakes are designed for efficiency of air flow from the factory. I doubt a long aftermarket snorkel is going to be as efficient as the OEM-designed setup.

You may not notice the difference in power from the seat of your pants, but I'm willing to bet there is a difference nonetheless.

OEM equipment is designed to maximize overall fuel efficiency rating and minimize emissions. Unless you are buying a supercar, performance is one of the last things on the manufacturers' minds.

 

[MOguy]

OEM equipment is designed to maximize overall fuel efficiency rating and minimize emissions. Unless you are buying a supercar, performance is one of the last things on the manufacturers' minds.

Maybe not the last thing on their mind but there are other considerations, Noise deadening, additional protection from the elements, cost. You can find evidence that cold air kits could provide colder, denser or a higher volume of air to the engine allowing the engine to create more power. These kits that are sold as cold air kits do not have snorkels running up to the top of the vehicle.

It would be interesting to see if there are any legit test that show the effect adding a snorkel has in regards to power gain or loss. I have googled and find people saying this or that but it is just opinions, no actual legit testing.

 

[LMarshall73]

Maybe not the last thing on their mind but there are other considerations, Noise deadening, additional protection from the elements, cost. You can find evidence that cold air kits could provide colder, denser or a higher volume of air to the engine allowing the engine to create more power. These kits that are sold as cold air kits do not have snorkels running up to the top of the vehicle.

It would be interesting to see if there are any legit test that show the effect adding a snorkel has in regards to power gain or loss. I have googled and find people saying this or that but it is just opinions, no actual legit testing.

Exactly. One major issue when testing different intake systems (snorkels & ram air) is the testing is generally done on a dyno. They may have a fan blowing on the vehicle for cooling, but rarely will they replicate airflow for the given speed of the vehicle. In fact, the only way this could be accomplished accurately would be to have the dyno set up in a wind tunnel. Without doing so, their data is incomplete and their results are flawed.

 

[Dalko43]

Exactly. One major issue when testing different intake systems (snorkels & ram air) is the testing is generally done on a dyno. They may have a fan blowing on the vehicle for cooling, but rarely will they replicate airflow for the given speed of the vehicle. In fact, the only way this could be accomplished accurately would be to have the dyno set up in a wind tunnel. Without doing so, their data is incomplete and their results are flawed.

Well then the testing is flawed regardless of which setup (aftermarket snorkel or OEM air intake) is used. Most of the stock OEM air intake systems rely on cold air flowing into the front fender area; during forward movement, the air is in essence being "rammed" into the intake ducting similar to how it is with a raised snorkel setup. So the lack of realistic air flow equally affects both setup's and any dyno results should still be indicative of how the two different setups compare to one another.

In response to your earlier post, efficient air flow into the intake is key to not only fuel efficiency but also consistent horsepower. The stock air intake systems are well designed, for the most part. I have a hard time believing that some aftermarket company is going to put the same R&D into creating a raised snorkel intake that is going to perform as well as the OEM setup's. I haven't seen any definitive test results, but in theory I understand how a raised air intake creates longer, less efficient ducting for the air to travel through.

 

[lugueto]

Actually, I think that statement of yours is full of conjecture. The main one being that there is no loss of power with a snorkel. The stock cold air intakes are designed for efficiency of air flow from the factory. I doubt a long aftermarket snorkel is going to be as efficient as the OEM-designed setup.

You may not notice the difference in power from the seat of your pants, but I'm willing to bet there is a difference nonetheless.

Well, i'll take your bet. Why? because your guess is as good as mine.

Neither you nor any of the other guys saying there MIGHT be a loss of power,have the numbers to back it up. Granted, neither do I. For now all I can say by experience: My car hasn't been hydrolocked, the filter is NOTICEABLY cleaner every 3000 miles than it used to be and I can still go as fast as I dare loaded or unloaded. When I see numbers: power gain/loss, amount of dust or water in the filter housing, I can objectively say it will be better or worse under specific conditions.

What I said was most accurate is the bunch of naysayers bringing arguments against snorkels based on nothing but the fact that they don't need it. No facts, overly complicated arguments and experience in other fields to somewhat back it up, but ultimately no facts.

the air is in essence being "rammed" into the intake ducting similar to how it is with a raised snorkel setup.

Sorry. No. Just, no.

 

[MOguy]

If snorkels builders were concerned their snorkels compared to stock air intakes there would be testing and test results. I really don't think there is any snorkel maker claiming they make more power. I really don't think making more power is their intent. All they did was build an intake to get air into the engine that was out if harms way, sell it and make a buck. There is nothing wrong with that. There is a legit reason for a snorkel.

I can find all sorts of independent data on cold air kits in regards to power gain but none on snorkels. When I was younger I did some dyno testing on a Camaro I had. We checked spark plugs, a computer tuner and some engine pulleys. it wasn't that much money to get it done. Changing to smaller pulleys actual picked up about 5hp, plugs 3hp and the tuner lost 2hp.

Dyno testing isn't big of a deal to get done.

 

[Dalko43]

Well, i'll take your bet. Why? because your guess is as good as mine.

You weren't presenting your statement as a guess, but rather as a fact:

Most naysayers will say that people only get one to look cool. That you'll lose power (which is a lie) and start creating doubt with comments such as "well you're gonna get dust in there anyway" or "if you cross water deep enough to need one, the snorkel is not going to save you either". This is because they simply don't see the need so they assume no one else will.

Well, it seems that this is the thing that turned out to be most accurate from my first post? Ha.

Sorry. No. Just, no.

Again, are you relying on your subjective feelings in regards to this issue, or have you actually looked at the air intake setups used by many companies?
Ram's Active Air intake does draw in air as it comes through the front grille.

The air is getting rammed into the intake ducting similar to a raised air snorkel. A lot of other OEM air intakes use a similar setup. The "ram" air effect is not exclusive to snorkels.

I really don't think there is any snorkel maker claiming they make more power. I really don't think making more power is their intent. All they did was build an intake to get air into the engine that was out if harms way, sell it and make a buck. There is nothing wrong with that. There is a legit reason for a snorkel.

^This makes sense.

 

[hemifoot]

Most likely the guy who knows how to assess risk and capability along with how to make his own equipment more capable and less prone to ingesting water or dirt. The "hold my beer" types end up flagging the rest of us down for assistance with their broke or stuck vehicle.

whole lot of people here don't agree with you.and none of them have a snorkel.

 

[Stryder106]

whole lot of people here don't agree with you.and none of them have a snorkel.

Whatever you say - but I just finished a trip with a bunch of folks who do this for a living (and you read their articles) and they also have snorkels - and I 'm pretty damn positive which category they fall into. Take a look at Scott Brady's rigs, Graeme Bell, Dan Grec, Chris Collard, the Hema Maps rigs, etc.
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You never did answer my question (and I'm not being snarky - I'm being serious) - have you ever driven in desert silt?