The world's largest army...

[Fireman78]

I cannot conceive of a scenario where US military would deliberately fire on US civilians. an armed uprising that was too large for state and federal police is just not imaginable to me. Worst case would involve the National Guard augmenting the police forces, as part of the outer-cordon or crowd control. It's just so against our principals. If I told soldiers to fire on US civilians, I think most would refuse orders.

I just can't visualize what domestic scenario is being discussed here as a separate topic from the foreign aggression.

I totally agree with this.. 100%. The US Military are "The People" too. It just ain't happening here.

 

[K2ZJ]

There were over 600,000 hunters this season in the state of Wisconsin....

...These men deployed to the woods of a single American state to hunt with firearms, and no one was killed.

To further illustrate the lack of fact check... hunters can, do and are killed by accidental shootings each season.

Remind me where I said that? I was simply pointing out the lack of fact check in the OP's email.

While you are correct that there are accidents, you are misquoting the OP. He said one state this year. That's it.

 

[Mr. Leary]

I totally agree with this.. 100%. The US Military are "The People" too. It just ain't happening here.

Tell that to the NRA. It seems that a huge number of people in the US are convinced of two things:

A) That the government is going to try to take their firearms away and then proceed to oppress their rights.

B) That if they retain their guns, they have a chance against the government (i.e. military) if it tries to take their rights away.


Perhaps I read a little too much between the lines here, but the concept that a bunch of hunters can really face down a well organized and properly equipped military force is kinda silly for a couple major reasons. First, the "soldiers" would not be getting paid, and would not be getting resupplied. Therefor this sedantary force would only be able to operate for a short period of time before they have to put down their rifles and pick up their pitchforks, so to speak. Second, consider the qualifications of these "soldiers." At least in Texas, every man between 12 and 70 has a hunting license, and a good percentage of the women as well. Most of them do not know the first thing about military tactics. Heck, most of the "hunting" here is more like deer harvesting anyways. They sit in their stands and wait for the deer to eat the corn they have set out a few yards away. These folks lack either the desire, ability, or knowledge to even track down an animal, kill it, and use it... much less try to hunt prey that has been trained in war and is also hunting them. I'll reach back to quote Confucius... "To lead untrained people to war is to throw them away." Gone are the days when hunting weapons were similar in capability to military weapons. Gone are the days when most American children were raised gun in hand. Gone are the days when developed nations actually fought wars against each other.

Of course there are plenty of civilian organizations that would be incredibly helpful during a real emergency, such as the National Defense Transportation Association, but they are designed to work with and in support of formalized government operations.

 

[Honu]

Not to worried about it happening here any time soon but never say never ?

Bottom line most of those countries cant move their troops anywhere so the thought of a invasion would be handled by our own troops

WWII in some countries where troops could march over the ground is how this would happen

So if millions of Koreans or Chinese or Russians start moving to Mexico then I will worry a bit heheheeh but that aint going to happen

 

[Klierslc]

Tell that to the NRA. It seems that a huge number of people in the US are convinced of two things:

A) That the government is going to try to take their firearms away and then proceed to oppress their rights.

B) That if they retain their guns, they have a chance against the government (i.e. military) if it tries to take their rights away.


Perhaps I read a little too much between the lines here, but the concept that a bunch of hunters can really face down a well organized and properly equipped military force is kinda silly for a couple major reasons. First, the "soldiers" would not be getting paid, and would not be getting resupplied. Therefor this sedantary force would only be able to operate for a short period of time before they have to put down their rifles and pick up their pitchforks, so to speak. Second, consider the qualifications of these "soldiers." At least in Texas, every man between 12 and 70 has a hunting license, and a good percentage of the women as well. Most of them do not know the first thing about military tactics. Heck, most of the "hunting" here is more like deer harvesting anyways. They sit in their stands and wait for the deer to eat the corn they have set out a few yards away. These folks lack either the desire, ability, or knowledge to even track down an animal, kill it, and use it... much less try to hunt prey that has been trained in war and is also hunting them. I'll reach back to quote Confucius... "To lead untrained people to war is to throw them away." Gone are the days when hunting weapons were similar in capability to military weapons. Gone are the days when most American children were raised gun in hand. Gone are the days when developed nations actually fought wars against each other.

Of course there are plenty of civilian organizations that would be incredibly helpful during a real emergency, such as the National Defense Transportation Association, but they are designed to work with and in support of formalized government operations.

I think you underestimate the ingenuity of the American Redneck. (surprising for a Texan)

How much fertilizer (ammonium nitrate) is available in your county? How about blasting caps? Based on our agricultural and mining operations alone, there is enough firepower to make some serious dents in the american military.

How many vietnam vets are out there? How many Iraq and Afg vets? I bet a bunch know how to make IEDs.....I know that I do. In addition, those vets know how the military looks for IEDs....kinda like having the other team's playbook.

Supplies: As a USMC logistician, this is near and dear to me....does the government control the fuel supply? Food supply? Who has more money, goverment or civilians? Many insurgencies have been supported through the local populace (that wasn't near as well off as ours)

Spies: How many military members would continue serving only to feed information to the militia or hinder military operations.

I think that if the "militia" had the popular support of the people, enough damage could be done that the goverment would throw in the towel.

The big issue here is air power and artillery. Any large militia concentration would be susceptible to elimination. However, the military does not have the resources to adequately guard all of our anti aircraft assetts. It would only be a matter of time before the militia was able to start taking down aircraft.

The long and short of it is that if there was a popular uprising that had the support of the vast majority, it would be able to succeed. If it was an isolated uprising, then it would be crushed. I firmly believe that despite our technological deficit, the American people retain the ability to forcibly oust the goverment.

I also think that if you had a repeat of the civil war (with modern arms) the south would still lose. (as would any other conventional force who met the US military on the field of battle)

You also have to realize how many servicemen would defect to the militias taking their comm gear, weapons, and knowledge. As stated above, there are very few servicemembers who would fire on a militia that had the support of the populace.

 

[Dave Bennett]

LOL, this thread reminds me of a couple movies:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoM6IFiyRjE"]YouTube - Red Dawn - Clip 06 - WOLVERINES![/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_KhErNyiq8"]YouTube - Tomorrow, When the War Began Full Length Trailer HQ![/ame]

 

[dwh]

I can only speak for the Army (not the Marine Corps) but that is not true. I have never been encouraged to hunt in my 20 years of service. not even suggested. What the military does encourage is recreation and balanced life style, and in that end, provides many services to include parks, lakes for fishing, and sometime hunting areas for military family recreation.

Just to be clear.

It appears we have a misunderstanding. Probably my fault. I think you misinterpreted my statement to mean that "the military promotes hunting to soldiers".

That's not what I meant, nor what I said. What I meant, was what I said, "the military promotes hunting. Quite a few military bases have hunting areas".


Here are just a few of the many examples:

http://www.liggett.army.mil/sites/fishhunt/update.asp

http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/waco/Recreation/Hunting.asp

http://fw.ky.gov/kfwis/arcims/wma.asp?strId=9076


Here's the U.S. Army Environmental Command's policy page on the subject:

http://aec.army.mil/usaec/forestry/hunting00.html


I stand by my statement.

 

[teotwaki]

I cannot conceive of a scenario where US military would deliberately fire on US civilians. an armed uprising that was too large for state and federal police is just not imaginable to me. Worst case would involve the National Guard augmenting the police forces, as part of the outer-cordon or crowd control. It's just so against our principals. If I told soldiers to fire on US civilians, I think most would refuse orders.

I just can't visualize what domestic scenario is being discussed here as a separate topic from the foreign aggression.

Bingo...

"Kent State gained international attention on May 4, 1970, when an Ohio Army National Guard unit fired at students during an anti-war protest on campus, killing four and wounding nine"

 

[Mamontof]

It Was wright on side of her skinny sensitive body with Bright Green Florescent Paint COW

Bloody hell why they shot and pack :Wow1: :snorkel:

Local Moscow Pennsylvania
hunter bought a mirror. Looks at him and says to his wife:
- Look, look, brother, looks like has arrived!
Suitable wife, also looks:
- Exactly! And the woman had brought with him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow,_Pennsylvania

 

[overlander]

Bingo...

"Kent State gained international attention on May 4, 1970, when an Ohio Army National Guard unit fired at students during an anti-war protest on campus, killing four and wounding nine"

You raise a good point and I am well aware of the Kent State event, as is most of the military. We are a very different military from that time, and my intent was that I cannot forsee such an event occuring again going forward as anything more than an isolated incident with UCMJ action and a thorough investigation against the command of such a unit.

This thread is referring to a much larger scale event that is beyond my imagination of plausability. I'm not trying to provoke a debate, I'm just stating my opinion based on my experience as a current military officer. any attempt to use the US military in a large scale as domestic police force would either involve a manmade or natural crisis (eg Japan's current crisis) or it would be fought by the Joint Chiefs tenaciously. Again, this does not include in scope zombie uprising or alien attack.

 

[dwh]

Again, this does not include in scope zombie uprising or alien attack.

Or the U.N.

 

[overlander]

Or the U.N.

I would expect the hunters to organize themselves at light speed compared to the UN.

 

[Mr. Leary]

I would expect the hunters to organize themselves at light speed compared to the UN.

We are in complete agreement.

 

[teotwaki]

You raise a good point and I am well aware of the Kent State event, as is most of the military. We are a very different military from that time, and my intent was that I cannot forsee such an event occuring again going forward as anything more than an isolated incident with UCMJ action and a thorough investigation against the command of such a unit.

This thread is referring to a much larger scale event that is beyond my imagination of plausability. I'm not trying to provoke a debate, I'm just stating my opinion based on my experience as a current military officer. any attempt to use the US military in a large scale as domestic police force would either involve a manmade or natural crisis (eg Japan's current crisis) or it would be fought by the Joint Chiefs tenaciously. Again, this does not include in scope zombie uprising or alien attack.

My mention of Kent State was not meant as a cheap shot, just trying to avoid glossing over an event of citizens being fired on. The "Bonus Army" of the distant past was another example of military force used against citizens.

We should also keep in mind that the current American Army and Marine forces have had a fair amount of training in Military Operations On Urbanized Terrain (or house to house warfighting). The weapons and tactics do exist for confronting armed and angry rednecks drinking beer on their front porches. :elkgrin:

 

[teotwaki]

I would expect the hunters to organize themselves at light speed compared to the UN.

And said hunters would also do so in complete and utter disregard for Man Made Global Warming :sombrero: