Top 10 Used Overland Vehicles: Do you agree?

[Scott Brady]

You can quite successfully overland through Africa in a Benz wagon. Could also do it in Australia. Not all overlanding requires a 4wd and in many cases a stock one is fine. It all depends on route selection

Exactly!

If you want to go looking for trouble and challenge, then you need all of those gnarly overland trucks like Defenders, 70 series, and G-Wagons, but 99% of the interesting places in the world have been accessed by a Toyota Corola, I can promise you that.

When I crossed the largest glacier in Europe, I needed a specially prepared vehicle. The same when I explored the Sahara, but you can have a wonderful overland adventure by stock Tacoma. You could drive the high mountains of Lesotho, cross the Andes and navigate the Silk Road through the Wakhan Corridor all by a stock NAS 100 Land Cruiser.

I have found that the only people that say you need some specialized, extreme 4wd to explore the world are the people that have been nowhere at all. The last thing people need to hear is some long list of crap they need, or some specialized vehicle they have to buy to see the world. Sure, there is 'best practice', and 'best of breed' solutions for travel, and if your funds and time allow, sure you can overland by the very best, but it is not mandatory, and often times the 'best' kind of defeats the point of adventure travel.

The best overland vehicle ever built is the one you are currently traveling in!

 

[Bip Bip]

Scott I think your point is a good one - these vehicles on the list are good but limited to the US market place (as the list made clear), and as you rightly point out that a diesel version would be preferable. And thus the rub. My point here is we need to 'think outside the box' and maybe figure out a way to join the world - or at least figure a way to lobby decision-makers to change the restrictions on North American vehicle manufacturing.

There are so many great ideas out there, based on pick-up or SUV platforms NOT much different from the North American counterparts. The French manufacturer Azalai puts camping cells on Toyota and Landrover platforms that make compact overlanding vehicles. ARVI is another one. The Germans are pro's when it comes to overlanding doo-dads, as an example Finck's Expedition cabin, not to mention the famous UNICAT. The Aussies make a cool MB sprinter rig they call TRAKKA. These are fine examples of overlanding vehicles ...however they are outrageously expensive and maybe just a tad too luxurious.

The International Aid industry still relies on the Toyota Landcruiser 78 and the Nissan Patrol. Old-school and affordable and perfect for the do-it-yourself crowd and proven and tested and durable and parts available and and and. THIS is what I mean when I say that the top 10 list is lacking. I am NOT looking to reinvent the wheel but to use the wheel that is out there and works like a charm. We are working ourselves into a lather precisely BECAUSE there are better products out there but we in North America are trying to force a square peg into a round hole. And that is a shame.

I said it before that the essence of overlanding is to have a vehicle that meets but also can meet the challenges that arise - breakdowns and parts availability and serviceability most notably the critical hurdles- all the things that the top 10 list uses as criterion for selection. Except that the reality is these criterion need to be considered on a global scale. I had two Ford Explorers in Iraq until I had one for parts, and you couldn't pay me to take anything but a first generation Toyota 4runner in Pakistan.

The most telling indicator for me is that I have been REFUSED assistance by CentAm dealerships both in parts and service the minute they find out that I come from North America (or more precisely THE CAR comes from NA). It has also happened to others on the PanAm with Chevy and Ford products too. This has happened to me no less than three times and thus - imagine if I was running a Jeep rather than a Mitsubishi? At least with a Mitsu I can go to the junk yard and source my parts woes. Clearly NA vehicles are so different from the 'third world' models that the shops cannot or will not or do not have capacity to manage.

All the vehicles ON the list are 4WD vehicles intended to have the flexibility of ON and OFF road capacities - like our friend Toymaster wishes to find that 'secluded spot off the beaten path' and thus I directed my comments based on this common denominator. There ARE good options for 2WD vehicles and as I noted before I would take a diesel Toyota Hilux people-carrier just about anywhere even off-road. This is what we use regularly in the deepest Africa and most parts of Central Am. That is what the locals sure do! Have you seen what they do with a 200 year old Peugeot 504 in Senegal and the DRC or a Toyota Camry in Cambodia??? But as your list bespoke of 4WD and durability and parts availability... well it IS disappointing we cannot get some of the very capable vehicles found around Europe and Africa and Australia that are found globally except in the bubble of North America.

Finally, I also agree with you that rather than inventing 'needs' for a bad-*** truck, just take the old beater you have and put gas in it and put it in drive. I have said that on other postings as well...

 

[RMP&O]

I think the discussion is flawed and here is why....

This is not the 'safe' list of just Toyotas and Land Rovers, but a list that reflects vehicles available to purchase in the USA and then driven around the world.

Purchase a vehicle in the USA to drive around the world!? Come on Scott you are not doing that yourself, you bought non-USA Cruisers!!

IMHO, the 80/100-series and the G-wagon are the only ones that belong on a "drive around the world" list. I agree with points on the 80-series made in the discussion however, it is one of the only trucks on the list you may be able to find parts for outside the USA. USA G-wagons (those imported and sold here not just imported by an individual) are a poor choices in the G-wagon range. The reason being is we didn't get the diesel, manual trans G's here unless imported by individuals. The majority of the world has these G's not the v8, blingin' versions we got in the USA.

My next problem with the list is; #2 is the Tacoma!! This is a USA only truck and you will not gets any parts easily outside the USA for it and you best know how to work on it yourself. On top of this it is a light duty truck that simply can not handle the 6,000lbs most overland vehicles meet or exceed. And lets be honest, if you are driving around the world the truck is going to be heavy even if you pack super light. The 1st gens have a know frame problem that can and will fail if overloaded. The 2nd gens also have a variety of known problems. Regardless of these problems the bottom line with this truck is that it is to light duty to serve as an around the world overland vehicle.

Pretty much everything else on the list shouldn't even be there if we are talking about an around the world drive. Change that to an around N.America drive and the list is fine.

Around the world drive, my short list is, in order;

*Cruiser: 40/60/70/80/100, best with a diesel not even sold in the USA.
*Patrol: Anything from a 160-series to a Y61. And of course diesel.
*Jeep: Anything older should be ok, try and make sure it was a version at least sold in other parts of the world besides the USA. In fact not being a Jeep guy I still know there are some models or engine/trans combos not sold in the USA that would be more suitable for an around the world drive.
*Chevy/Ford/Dodge truck or Blazer, Ramcharger, Suburban, Bronco ect: Even if not sold outside the USA pre-2000 models of these and you will be able to find parts. The Chevy 350 is one of the most common motors worldwide not to mention just about anybody can work on it. They will also be stout trucks that can take the abuse and weight.
*Rover: I sure wouldn't do it in a Rover but nonetheless a Rover should be on the list. Best if it is an old school D90 or D110 with a diesel and manual trans and a Salisbury axle.
*Hilux: If you plan to go light only. Even with it's stronger frame and rear axle it is still a light duty truck. Thing is, you will find it in nearly every country worldwide so if it breaks no biggie!

That is really about all I would put on a list for around the world drives. You certainly could add a G to the list but IMHO only an old school one without the bling. It would be hard to convince me to add a Mog to the list simply due to the size of the vehicle, weight and complexity of it.

Now having said that people do drive just about anything on around the world type trips. It has been done and can be done. But picking a N. American vehicle and one from the list on the homepage to me is not a very good idea. If it was why did you go in 70-series Cruisers Scott!?

That is my 2 cents on the subject.

Cheers

 

[jaxs1984]

I think everyone should put there money where there mouth is and start the "Stupid American mall-crawler-non-diesel-top-10-used-"overland"-vehicle- "Around the World" rally. We can then settle this once and for all . We will start in Alaska. I'll enter my 09 2D Rubi with 15K worth of AEV toys. :smiley_drive:

 

[Deleted member 48574]

I think if we spent as much time driving our trucks around the world as we do debating what truck is best for it, we'd have statistical data that would trump anything science has put out in years.



Cheers
Craig

 

[toymaster]

Ok, work did get in the way so, I choose to respond in the next post instead of updating the original post for continuity's sake. I am set now and have some time to play; as you will be able to tell I am taking the long way around with this post. Yes, the pun was intended . I usually keep my responses short and specific but this thread was indeed created to start thoughts on an impossible subject to settle. The debate cannot be won due to its nature being personal preference.

Let's tackle the 4x4 question first: required, desirable, or just expo cool fluff. I can tell by your response you live on a different planet than I do. I call the middle of Wyoming home and for my lifestyle four wheel drive is a requirement. Now wait a minute you say. Nope, there are even places on my ranch where you can get stuck in a two wheel drive street machine and that is far from an around the world joy ride. I have a F550 work truck I bought new to haul my heavy equipment, 4x4 of course. Now, I really do not HAVE to have 4x4 because anytime I get stuck I can unload the dozer or back hoe, which ever I am hauling at the time, and get the truck/trailer on the move again then load it all back up. Or, I can simply reach down and pull up on the transfer case lever and press the skinny pedal; which do you think is my preference? As a side note, the low range of the transfer case also come in handy in various situation all in its own right. For example, the last time I hauled the dozer into Sunlight Basin I had to use the front end to assist and that was with 6 to 8 thousand pounds on the rear truck axle (generally more weight equals more traction and available rim pull). For the record where I live does not matter because there is unpaved soil in every corner of the earth. The plan truth is 4x4 makes a machine more capable. Now if you dispute that you need a course in physics which is beyond the scope of this rebuttal. I was not and am not ‘waxing poetical'; I am stating facts there are different terrains any place on earth no matter how beaten or unbeaten the path may be. Disclaimer: If you choose to stay on the roads and sleep under the street lights your experiences, and by the way… knowledge, may vary.

To lend support to some of your points, in conjunction with my work I watch the most backward society on earth in their daily routines. The most common mode of transportation is the 125cc two-stroke motorcycle with a few sedans thrown in the mix and even a Bongo or two (2wd of course). Now most of the “roads” are foot paths and the motorcycles have street tires on them. The fact is they make it everywhere; in eight months I have not seen one single motorcycle wipe-out well, at least ones that were operator error :ar15:. I also have lived in Africa (different job) for over a year and there also 2wd is the norm and motorcycles are plentiful. Generally, the same applies to all 5 continents I have been to. However, this does not make me want to drive a less capable vic if I have a choice in the matter .


The fact is for overlanding with anything more than what in this pic is optional, even for a group of seven, and up to the user for his or her preference.

Furthermore, I was in Romania middle of last year doing a little overlanding. Due to occurrences the wife and I rented a locally made car (can't think of the name nor does it really matter). On our way from Bucharest to Transylvania we passed many roads going off into the woods which made me really wish I had my jeep alas, I was trapped on the road. Romania is about the size of Oregon and shares a lot with Oregon concerning mountains and weather. I mention this just so you can imagine the terrain. Better yet here is a link to some pictures http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65214 Now I could have tried it and just had the wifey push when we got stuck in the mud although I do like being married to her and may soon find myself back in the bachelor state once again if I asked her to do so. As I get older I like to pretend I am getting wiser so I opted not to try it. I give this example because Romania is a very, very old country that has been fought over by the Romans, Ottomans, Dracula himself, and most other empires since before history began needless to say every square inch has had a foot print on it and yet….one can still get stuck on the sentimental wax covered beaten path more easily without the stuff one calls four wheel drive, hmmmmm.

Now on to the real question at hand. Before I could reply Scott and grimbo did a fantastic job of responding to your yammering. I may point out your example of a Ford Excursion did reveal your skill level when it comes to machinery.

I once though that the best idea would be the Ford Expedition with a diesel engine. But then there is the reality - that engine is only good for North America and has no source for parts outside of US and Canada. Besides the motor is rather huge and overdone in a standard North American bigger-is-better approach. If you ever had a problem, well it would make a really great anchor for a boat somewhere. It is not likely, either, that you can match that motor with a standard transmission - not without a home garage transplant, and what about all the fancy electric 4WD controls. So like the Jeep products not really a global vehicle in a larger 'overlanding' sense...

FYI, the Excursion came with the 7.3 or the 6.0 international diesel depending on the year model chosen. If you care to look at my sig you will notice I own both of these fine engines since they were new and coincidently both have manual transmission behind them. The Excursion is an F250 with a slightly different body and only offered by Ford with an automatic transmission. The “fancy” electric 4wd controls are solenoids attached to the exact same transfer case found in every other superduty truck. If the “fancy” coil of wire fails one can always climb under the truck and select which ever range they desire by hand. Pretty much shows you talking out of your (said with a scottish accent) ********. Now we all have arses so I can't hold that against 'ya.:bigbossHL:

Incidentally, as Scott pointed out in the ‘top ten list' the Jeep is widely supported. I have seen Jeep, and Ford by the way, dealers in Africa, Middle East, and Europe first hand. And in case you did not notice in the link above that is a JK (jeep) my friend is driving in Romania. Last I checked Romania is in Europe and extremely close to Turkey. Kinda' why they had such trouble with the Ottoman empire.

On to my reply to the “perfect” vic for world travel. As I recall the first gentlemen to ride motorcycles around the world did it on Harleys and Triumphs (separately of course). Talk about not globally supported in a time before global logistics were common place. Gasoline or diesel?? As I have already stated most of the world travels on very small displacement motorcycles. Wither two-stroke or four-stroke both require gasoline therefore, gasoline is found throughout the world. Diesel is only preferred because of range.

The operator's mechanical ability is more of a concern than the vic chosen IMO. If you are on a lonely stretch of road it does not matter if you have a Toyota or a superduty help is a long way off. If your interests are more social :friday: instead of mechanical and are dependent on the help of a professional then may your god, whom ever that is, help you. There is not one single vic fully supported in every small population center of the world. My point is it is up to you to know how to make repairs anything less and I would seek the help of airlines and rent locally for my “overlanding”.

Tools are universal in nature. What I mean by this is I can take the same set of tools and take apart anything from a Mercedes to a Yugo. Tools can be sourced locally whereas knowledge cannot. My advice is to have the most common tools aboard and seek the local ‘mechanic' to borrow/rent any other items including space to work. Last I checked DHL and UPS cover the entire planet and yes you can even have an entire engine and transmission sent to you. The time spent where ever you are is all just part of the adventure and fun. All it takes is money to make any vic from a moped to an Earthroamer a world traveler. To be upfront this is all theoretical because I opt for the airline route :sombrero: most of the time.

I think everyone should put their money where their mouth is and start the "Stupid American mall-crawler-non-diesel-top-10-used-"overland"-vehicle- "Around the World" rally. We can then settle this once and for all . We will start in Alaska….. :smiley_drive:

This is a fantastic idea…..just need a sponsor Ohhhh Scoootttt.

 

[Scott Brady]

Now having said that people do drive just about anything on around the world type trips. It has been done and can be done. But picking a N. American vehicle and one from the list on the homepage to me is not a very good idea. If it was why did you go in 70-series Cruisers Scott!?

We were fortunate to be able to use VDJ78s on our trip, and they have performed just as expected, which is to say flawless. 40,000 kms around the world, including low-range, diff-lock deep mud and thousands of kms of corrugated dirt roads, etc. Not a single mechanical failure or otherwise. We have had stuff break, but nothing Toyota made.

Agreed, the 70 series is most certainly the most reliable and quite possibly the most durable 'wagon' option for overland travel.

However, I would absolutely take any vehicle on the top 10 list around the world. The Tacoma is actually way more serviceable than you might imagine. All of Russia gets the FJ Cruiser with the same drivetrain. Australia gets the same drivetrain as NAS. The world is not that scary and is way more modern and with better infrastructure than most realize.

This has been my experience. In all of my travels on six continents and 60+ countries, I have never experienced a single instance where we needed some obscure dealer support to fix a truck. We start off by using really good cars that are really well maintained and we have never needed to repair them at a dealer. I have never even had a flat tire on a trip! We took a 2001 Suzuki Jimny across the Silk Road, including the very remote and challenging Wakhan Corridor. Not a single failure. Not a single flat.

The reality is that the trucks on this list ARE the best choice (certainly the top 5) for an American to buy and drive around the world. If you have an issue, DHL can get to every major city on the globe. Buy the truck, keep it as stock as possible, do all of the preventative and predictive maintenance possible, bring spares for known failure modes and just go. You will be shocked at the hospitality and support you will get from locals to help you fix a problem. Don't view mechanical issues as some death nail - view them as an awesome chance to overcome a challenge and experience true adventure.

My best memories are of having parts welded, tire repaired (on other people's vehicles), getting an AC system recharged in the Middle East while the shop owner served us tea and thanked us for visiting their country (all in perfect english).

Buy a car you like, service it the best you can, and then go!

 

[Scott Brady]

The fact is for overlanding with anything more than what in this pic is optional, even for a group of seven, and up to the user for his or her preference.

Precisely

 

[Bip Bip]

I am not sure what all your yammering - and it is long- is about 4x4, Mr Toymaster. Nobody denied this element, noting that all the top 10 have it there must be a reason. I have it, prefer it, use it and only acknowledged that it is possible to do WITHOUT it. Our worlds are not so separated, I think. Sadly it is possible to get suck with 4WD too, and often in a deeper mess. So let's be clear that having it is not a full time solution; smaller lighter 2WD vehicles get unstuck much easier more often.

I would like to add this to the digestive track of Toymaster - blessed be thy ********. This is a direct quote by an experienced overlander about his decision process for his upgrading to a UNIMOG as his next overlanding vehicle. Real life based on study and intelligence modified by experience and 'need'. You can see it here at http://www.whiteacorn.com/articles/rtw/vehicle#choice

Quote:
Our Tiger-Chevy Duramax was incredibly reliable in South America, BUT it was clear from conversations with Chevy dealers in various countries that repairs on the engine/transmission would have been very difficult. Those vehicles, the Duramax engine and Allison transmission are not used in any commonly available vehicles in those parts of the world.

The situation seemed no better with the Earthroamer's Ford chassis. ******** Smith's experience with his 6.0 PSD Earthroamer [note this vehicle is a F550] in Mongolia may be an extreme; but unlike ******** we don't have the money to fly Ford mechanics from the US to fix mechanical problems.

I would hazard to say that every overlander is carrying some sort of tool kit (wire included). However no matter how big the kit - even if weight was not restricted - you will not have all the tools for all the jobs. And ultimately there is no need to carry a complete shop - local mechanics are capable too. You only need to get it to the shop from where you are...as Scott says, have a cultural exchange. Money, as you say, cures all ills. Not all of us have enough to ship in a mechanic, pay UPS, or buy airplane tickets like you can. You presume too much, maybe I am a mechanic? But then again there is value in simplicity in an overlanding vehicle, no?, and that is why Scott is running his 78's I bet. Who in his right mind wants to crawl under his truck to manually change the transfer case? And for that you get to pay extra for the doodad???

By the by, the Ford Excursion never did make it on the Top 10, sorry. Maybe you can illuminate us WHY it should be as a RTW rig?

Speaking of UPS check this story of an overlander who didn't UPS his transmission. An interesting story, one highlighted on the EP home page http://www.drivenachodrive.com/2012/08/the-fourth-option/ He must have had a reason because UPS sounds so easy. The whole, whole, discussion in these last few pages have been centered around having a RTW vehicle that is reliable and where parts ARE available. Relying on UPS contradicts what exactly MAKES a vehicle RTW worthy .

Ultimately, overlanding includes roads and street lights. No one goes RTW offroad, as you realized in Romania- your rental car visit to the countryside. Bummer but that is the truth. To reiterate Scott - "The world is not that scary and is way more modern and with better infrastructure than most realize"

All this, however is moot as not one yammer adds to the discussion - really? Ottoman is additive? - of what would make a good overlanding vehicle. Stay on your ranch and play with your toys, use your tool box and enjoy your scenery. You go back to work and I'll continue my overlanding, my ******** is sore after 14 months and 50 000kms.

 

[Bip Bip]

Can't do this with a (US Top 10) gasoline powered vehicle. Water and spark plugs don't mix.

 

[Scott Brady]

Can't do this with a (US Top 10) gasoline powered vehicle. Water and spark plugs don't mix.

sure you can

Modern coil on plug engines are pretty well sealed

 

[p nut]

Can't do this with a (US Top 10) gasoline powered vehicle. Water and spark plugs don't mix.

Are you serious?

 

[Bip Bip]

My apologies Scott. I stand corrected. But I still wouldn't try it with my rig just in case it decided to drown midstream. No way no how.

In fact I would like to sincerely apologize globally for the last pages in this posting. You set out, with integrity analysis and experience to define a (clearly qualified US) Top 10 list of 'Overland' vehicles (by which we mean RTW). You completed that task coherently with pros and cons and discussion. Then you asked for feedback.

There has been less of that lately - pros and cons and discussion regarding other ideas whether they be Jeeps or Ford Excursions.

I think we are all a bit disappointed at the offerings - knowing that there are more out there - and we are (I am) just showing our disappointment at the limitations.

To reiterate my choices - though I should but will not give the discussion
-MB 4WD Sprinter - which by the latest news is available in the US. Doesn't have the hard grunt that the LC has but does have 4low. Also has space and comfort for INSIDE living, has 5 tonne Gross Vehicle, is universal for parts availability, can go stealth as many countries use these vehicles as cargo or people transport, is durable...
-IVECO Daily 4x4, 3l turbo diesel, 6 sp trans, lockers front, rear and CD....
-Toyota Landcruiser 78 or Nissan Patrol
-Landcruiser 80
-Izuzu/Chev Trooper
-Toyota Hilux 2WD minivan
-Suzuki Samuri/Chev Jimmy (Jimny) or Suzuki Vitara

 

[grimbo]

View attachment 128721

Can't do this with a (US Top 10) gasoline powered vehicle. Water and spark plugs don't mix.

Of course you can. I've been windscreen deep in a Samurai with no bonnet driving through numerous crossings with no dramas.

I don't understand the angst this list has made.

You can put whatever vehicle you want on your list.

It's just a list

 

[Ozarker]

Seems like the initial question or evaluation was overlanding in North Amreica as stated, that quickly turned in the justifications in the choices selected to African travels and how available stuff was world wide. And still in that theme, keeping with world travels. So it seems it wasn't at all about North America,that would be the US, Canada and the Artic, not Africa, Asia, Europe or Austrailia, at least that's what I got out of my geograhic studies.

I don't want a dog in the fight, but really, seems the list was all about Toyota, pretty obvious, and while they are great vehicles, I probably would think a couple would make the top 10, not the entire line up. It really appears to be skewed.

What about crash survivability, sliding down a hill, maybe a roll and landing on some bolder? Why consider a crash, because you may be more likely to hit somthing than choking your spark plugs if you prepared your ignition properly. I don't think shrink tube and caulk at the water's edge is much of a mod, no more than sliders on mall crawlers off a show room floor.

The Suzuki in a crash? Rather be in a Pathfinder, rather be in a Rover and rather be in a G-Wagon, and certainly would not want to climb out of a station wagon.

I have been here awhile, not an expert in overlanding, but in 45 years of driving I'm no beginner to tight trails, hill climbing, fording rivers or racing off road. I always thought this site was a dot org, or net, but it's a dot com, which explains the commercialization of many issues discussed. I'd bet that the #1 vehicle built up will be for sale after it gets used as a feature overlander. Don't get me wrong folks, it's a great site and there are great product sponsors, appreciate all, I just keepseeing the soft under the radar commercial plugs by several always promoting rather than keeping in the spirt of the sport or recreational activity,IMHO.

I also just saw an appology for the list, I did a quantum leap from page one to post, maybe the top ten idea was a great one, I'd like to see another, but can't help but think a Ford wouldn't make the top ten in North America, or a Chevy, the two most popular trucks on the road.....oh heck, let the Dodge's in too. That was a nice and probably an appopriate thing to do.

Probably have a better top ten if you listed the top ten trucks, less than 2.5 tons and over. Top ten SUVs. Top ten sedans/wagons. Top ten Bikes. Folks should have enough of an idea as to what they need in those categories and then look to the best ones. I don't see mixing a G-Wagon with a Tacoma.

And, I'd like to see a better description of a statement of requirements. Not all overlanding requires a 3.5 on the technical assessment. That would be in keeping with apples and oranges, I can take a VW bug where many MOGs or Tacomas would not dare to go, like 8' of water across a river where the VW floats and the others sink. LOL
Doesn't the public have access to duce and a halfs? In North America the old military trucks seem to fit the bill too.

I appoligize as well if my comments/thoughts ruffled feathers, but 4 toys in the first 6 was a little much it seems.