Top 10 Used Overland Vehicles: Do you agree?

[tdesanto]

Well, if we're listing countries...

Africa
ALGERIA
ANGOLA
BENIN
BURKINA FASO
CAMEROUN
CENTRAL AFRICA
COTE D'IVOIRE
Democratic Republic of CONGO
DJIBOUTI
EGYPT
ETHIOPIA
GABON
GAMBIA
GHANA
GUINEA
KENYA
LIBERIA
LIBYA
MADAGASCAR
MALAWI
MALI
MAURITANIA
MAURITIUS
MOROCCO
MOZAMBIQUE
NIGER
NIGERIA
Republic of CHAD
Republic of CONGO
REUNION
RWANDA
SENEGAL
SEYCHELLES
SOUTH AFRICA
SUDAN
TANZANIA
TOGO
TUNISIA
UGANDA
ZAMBIA
ZIMBABWE
Asia
BANGLADESH
BHUTAN
BRUNEI
CAMBODIA
CHINA
HONG KONG
INDIA
INDONESIA
KOREA
LAOS
MALAYSIA (MMM)
NEPAL
PHILIPPINES
SINGAPORE
SRILANKA
TAIWAN
THAILAND
VIETNAM
Europe
AUSTRIA
BELGIUM
BULGARIA
CROATIA
CYPRUS
CZECH REPUBLIC
DENMARK
ESTONIA
FINLAND
FRANCE
GERMANY
GREECE
HUNGARY
ICELAND
IRELAND
ITALY
LATVIA
LITHUANIA
LUXEMBURG
MALTA
MACEDONIA
NETHERLANDS
NORWAY
POLAND
PORTUGAL
ROMANIA
RUSSIA
SERBIA
SLOVAK REPUBLIC
SLOVENIA
SPAIN
SWEDEN
SWITZERLAND
TURKEY
U.K.
UKRAINE
Latin America
ANTIGUA W.I.
ARGENTINA
ARUBA
BAHAMAS
BARBADOS
BELIZE
BERMUDA
BOLIVIA
BRAZIL
BRITISH VIRGIN ISLAND
CHILE
COLOMBIA
COSTA RICA
CUBA
CURACAO
DOMINICA
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
ECUADOR
EL SALVADOR
FRENCH GUIANA
GRAND CAYMAN
GRENADA
GUADALOUPE
GUATEMALA
GUYANA
HAITI
HONDURAS
JAMAICA
MARTINIQUE
NICARAGUA
PANAMA
PARAGUAY
PERU
PUERTO RICO
ST. KITTS
ST. LUCIA
ST. MARTIN
ST. VINCENT
SURINAME
TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
URUGUAY
VENEZUELA
Middle East
ARMENIA
AZERBAIJAN
BAHRAIN
GEORGIA
IRAN
IRAQ
ISRAEL
JORDAN
KUWAIT
LEBANON
OMAN
PAKISTAN
PALESTINE
QATAR
SAUDI ARABIA
SYRIA
U.A.E.
YEMEN
North America
U.S.A. (MMNA)
CANADA
MEXICO
Oceania
AUSTRALIA
AMERICAN SAMOA
COOK ISLANDS
FIJI
GUAM
KIRIBATI
KOSRAE
MARSHALL ISLANDS
NEW CALEDONIA
NEW ZEALAND
NORFOLK ISLAND
PALAU
PAPUA NEW GUINEA
POHNPEI
SAIPAN
SOLOMON ISLANDS
TAHITI
TONGA
TRUK
VANUATU

 

[Scott Brady]

I am glad you are challenging my list. Everyone has their own needs and bias.

The reader will make up their own decision if my logic makes sense or not.

The one thing I was not going to do was spew out the super-safe list that doesn't reflect what people are actually using in interesting places of the world. I recommended vehicles that would fit a cross-section of budgets, size requirements and travel styles. If you love visiting museums and bazaars around the world and could care less about muddy roads, why not buy a sweet Merc and do it in comfort and style and blend in with all of the locals?

I could have done this list:

1. 80 Series Land Cruiser
2. 100 Series Land Cruiser
3. 110 Defender
4. Tacoma
5. Land Rover Discovery
6. Third Generation 4Runner
7. Nissan XTerra
8. Mitsubishi Montero
9. Jeep Wrangler JK
10. Isuzu Trooper

The problem is that this list is safe, it is boring, and it not reflective of what people are actually using in the third world and finding to be effective. People would have read it and said "meh". It would have resulted in no discussion.

The list is intended to get the discussion going and for us to have some fun with it. So let me have a crack at the safe list.

1. 80 Series Land Cruiser: Too old now and usually neglected by the PO. Newer models (i.e. 100) are better in so many areas and only give 10-15% away on trail performance.

2. 100 Series Land Cruiser: A nearly perfect exploration vehicle. They are the Land Cruiser of choice by most in the developing world (Note: The 70 series is the LC of choice for serious work, which the 100 is used for personal use and people transport).

3. 110 Defender: An NAS 110 is nearly 20 years old and still 40k. There are better vehicles for that price, though none will ever be as stylish.

4. Tacoma: Perfect vehicle, though limited parts support internationally.

5. Land Rover Discovery: These vehicles are nearly a decade-old in the newest variant and the LR3 is a more capable, more refined and more reliable vehicle in stock form. It is a bitter pill, but a fact.

6. Third Generation 4Runner: Awesome truck, but I prefer the 4th Gen.

7. Nissan XTerra: Awesome vehicle, but with limited international parts support and a fragile front end.

8. Mitsubishi Montero: The newer trucks are fragile (I have a great story from Morocco, oh, and Mongolia) and struggle in technical terrain. Older solid rear axle trucks are sweet, but just like the 80 series, they are getting really old and there are better simply options with lower miles.

9. Jeep Wrangler JK: Proof is in the pudding. I have beat the piss out of these things over the Rubicon 14 times, Moab and all the way to Panama. They have proven to be 100% reliable in our testing.

10. Isuzu Trooper: I love the Trooper and have owned one for over half a decade but these trucks are now obsolete. There are better options.

The biggest challenge is not picking what vehicle to leave on a big trip with, but actually going on the trip. Just think about how many perfect, built to the max 80 series Land Cruisers there are that have never left this country, let alone left the state they are in.

The Merc and the Suzuki got lots of jeers, but they are everywhere in the world - literally everywhere. Go buy a little Vitara and pack it full of some clothes, a few spares and then go see what lies beyond the horizon. . .

 

[Christian P.]

The Suzuki totally deserved a spot on that list indeed. They have proven themselves over and over all around the world.

The Montero/Pajero is probably a model that could have made the list - if you can find one in good condition.

I would have consider the Nissan Frontier too.

 

[Paladin]

http://silkroadbysubaru.blogspot.com/

 

[Christian P.]

well, some people don't need a list at all.

They bring some cash to California, buy a vehicle the next day and drive down to South America.

How about a Winnebago LeSharo:

http://americantrips.over-blog.com/categorie-11597384.html

That's the way to do it.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I was talking about the known Subaru HG issues but the LC80 issues are pretty widely known too. Subaru redesigned them to fix the issue though

Toyota redesigned the HG for the 1fz as well. I just did a HG replacement on my 80 and the changes are obvious. Did they totally fix the problem? who knows.

I think people that are blowing the new HG are ones that have not had the head and block prepped properly but that would involve a lot more than just a HG job.

I agree with the list though overall.....the 80 is not at the top after owning one. Its got its limitations with age/millage and previous maintenance. But for what I needed and wanted its perfect.

Its always interesting seeing lists like this and the reactions from people They always seem to question why there choice of vehicle is not on there.

 

[Scott Brady]

http://silkroadbysubaru.blogspot.com/

Sweet

 

[overlander]

As I read through this thread, I keep thinking back to one of the original issues of OJ, that featured a black Citroen with a roof top tent, completely covered in dust that was traveling across N. Africa. That single image, reinforced by the theme of this portal and OJ, really reset my understanding of overlanding, and what is required. It's not about the vehicle as much as it is about the trip. Not every trip requires the same capabilities. We visualize the romanticism of pushing through jungle overgrowth with limb risers, when none of that is required in the middle east for example.

I remember traveling to Kuwait city last year, and on our way in, we would always see all the bedouin tents well off the highway on lifeless desert with Mitsubishi's and Mercedes parked right next to them. These people were overlanding as a way of life, and they would just pick a direction and go. And I'm talking about sedans, not 4wd's. (sorry, didn't see a single Subaru).

Ultimately, my desire is to be able to travel to remote 3rd world regions and push through the jungle brush for the sole purpose of seeing the rarely seen, but I also want to travel across Europe, and up the Darian Highway. Each of those trips have a variety of requirements. So I ended up choosing a vehicle on the "boring list". But for 90% of the overland trips I will travel in my life, I don't need a 110...but it called to me.

I think Scott's list was very well thought out. Many of the choices could be debated, as well as the rankings, which clearly generates a great bit of debate as we see that stirs up emotions, but also brings out additional facts. This was Scott's objective, and I think he did just that. :smiley_drive:

So far, that black Citroen has seen more dirt roads then I have....

 

[WheresMurph]

After having read your list Scott,I have to say I think it's a very well thought out,well written and extremely informative list.Even though I am currently on two wheels for the foreseeable future,I have owned some Overland type vehicles,my '76 FJ40 is still in my possession,but rarely used if at all.When I built the FJ(I put a '99 V-8,700R4 tranny,spring-over)practicality never entered into the build process.Now however,a time will approach for me to at least own a reliable,capable and affordable 4 wheel vehicle someday,to either have as a backup for adventure travel,or to continue my adventures outside of my bike.
I also like HOW you went about choosing your vehicles.Being a full time on the road traveller,maintainence and reliability are the TOP two factors for me to consider.My '04 BMW 1150 has been uber reliable given the punishment it just got subjected to in the Mexican 1000 and over the last 40k miles on the road so far,but I never had any qualms that it wouldn't do it safely and reliably.I don't carry a bunch of parts with me,I don't need to.Thats what I would look for in a used overland vehicle.
Thats why I concur with your list.

Murph

 

[dare2go]

Bloody - blog truncated my reply - so here a repeat:

This list only comes to show how limited the choice is in the USA for good "global" overland vehicles. In my opinion almost 80% on the list won't qualify beyond the North American subcontinent!

• Tacoma: forget it, when stranded in South America, Africa, Australia, Europe and Asia, because there's hardly any part exchangeable with the rugged Toyota Hilux.
• Once you want to carry enough fuel to cover more than 500 miles, the petrol versions of the Landcruiser 100/80 don't leave you with much payload = too thirsty.
• Your US icon Jeep: forget it! Nobody even wants to take it into the Australian Outback, as it should always stay close to a repair shop.
• Mercedes G: only if you have deep pockets and lot's of patience!
• Land Rover/Range Rover: the only model really worth considering is the boxy English Defender version, best with Diesel engine; I guess it's not being sold in the States, or it would be on the list... (I stand corrected, after reading the forum: it didn't make the cut due to price - maybe that's the proof that it's capable...)

The single one on the list, I might agree with, is weirdly enough the Suzuki Vitara, as it is a simple vehicle, globally available, and despite under-motorized with low payload, more capable than one would expect.

I'm missing on this list (in no particular order):
• Subaru Outback (or Liberty), and possibly Forester - both quite robust, with good parts support globally.
• Mazda BT50 - a solid, rugged fourwheel-drive pick-up with good global support.
• old Volkswagen T2 and T3 vans - still the favorite for many travelers around the globe, robust and light enough to go places where some modern heavy 4WDs get stuck.
• Isuzu DMax - for a modern pick-up, with computer technology, quite capable, strong, and excellent global support.
• Mercedes 300D W123 - might be old, rusty, and ready to fall apart, but the under-pinnings just keep on going! Somewhere (I believe here) I found a report of a Dutch guy traveling in Africa with it - on vegetable oil... The West Coast, which is much harder than the East of Africa.

Finally: I would prefer a Mercedes Sprinter Van over some of the listed vehicles... The Sprinter will probably cause less grief than many on the list, foremost Jeep, LR Discos, and the weird Mercedes wagon (with tons of electronics and heavy weight). It won't get you all places, but better than getting there and breaking down, with no means of getting back!
:victory:

 

[Railvan]

"Go buy a little Vitara and pack it full of some clothes, a few spares and then go see what lies beyond the horizon. . . "

Nice quote, Scott. Great to see the Suzuki Vitara on the list. I'm not surprised most people have not mentioned it in their responses. Suzukis are too underdog and not sexy enough for most folks, I think. I first drove a Sidekick in Costa Rica 15 years ago, and other than the too stiff springs, was impressed with the simple little rig. I saw them all over in Chile and Argentina a couple years ago. I ended up buying a 2001 Grand Vitara two years ago and am happy with it. For trail use, I think the 4 cylinder and auto trans might be better than the V6 and stick I drive, as the low range is not very low. The car would be darn near perfect if I could get lower gears in the transfer case. Way under the radar, indeed, and happy with it.

 

[dare2go]

My point is the that the vehicle you are less likely to break down in is the superior one. Your point is that a vehicle that is more likely to break down is a superior one because there might be a dealer network available to fix it.

:wings:

My vote is for Subaru, too!

And btw: I have seen quite a number of Subarus in South America (many more than Jeeps!).

 

[Paladin]

Land Rover/Range Rover: the only model really worth considering is the boxy English Defender version, best with Diesel engine; I guess it's not being sold in the States, or it would be on the list... (I stand corrected, after reading the forum: it didn't make the cut due to price - maybe that's the proof that it's capable...)

I'm curious why people always say things like this. You are aware that Discoveries and Range Rover Classics are mechanically very very similar to Defenders right? The powertrains, suspension, frames, brakes are either identical, are close enough that part swaps are possible across lines. The biggest difference is in the body, which doesn't have much to do with the vehicle's capability or reliability. There are also significant differences in the electrical systems, which really aren't a big deal if you know how to work on them.

 

[Scott Brady]

For trail use, I think the 4 cylinder and auto trans might be better than the V6 and stick I drive, as the low range is not very low.

We had the same problem with the 1.3L Jimny. T-case was not nearly low enough. 4.0:1 would be more appropriate. Doing the Pamirs in Kyrgyzstan at 15,000+ feet took everything the little machine had.

 

[overlander]

I'm curious why people always say things like this. You are aware that Discoveries and Range Rover Classics are mechanically very very similar to Defenders right? The powertrains, suspension, frames, brakes are either identical, are close enough that part swaps are possible across lines. The biggest difference is in the body, which doesn't have much to do with the vehicle's capability or reliability. There are also significant differences in the electrical systems, which really aren't a big deal if you know how to work on them.

You are correct. The Defender shares many powertrain/drivetrain components with the Discovery I and Range Rover Classic (which I benefit from in parts availability). The Discovery is a great touring car and defnitely has the comfort advantage. While it is very suitable for expedition work, the Defender definitely has the advantage with respect to utilitarian applications. Let me also say that I had a 95 DI before my 110, and my wife has a DII, and we have done many trips as a family in all of these vehicles. I also do all the work on our vehicles.

I think it is also worth noting that since this thread is based on used vehicles, every year that passes more and more Defenders (almost exclusively 110s and 130s) are being legally imported into this country and available for purchase. This is because the first year of the 110 was 1986, and thanks to the 25 year rule by the DOT/EPA, production years 86-87 are flowing in. Someone could buy a 86-87 110 with an R380/200TDI or 300TDI for $25k is they are patient and know the right people. I saw one for sale last weekend just outside of Charlotte just to make the point.

I have an NAS 110 converted to diesel, but that is because the 25 year rule had not kicked in when I was ready to buy. You can get a lot more bang for the buck now with an import in a diesel without the need to convert, which is more money available for refurbishment and modifications to suit your purpose.