Top 10 Used Overland Vehicles: Do you agree?

P

Paladin

Banned
I'm going with 1992-95 with the death of the W201 and W124. They started caring more about image and perception than about just making a good car.
 
H

haven

Expedition Leader
Overlander wrote, "...one of the original issues of OJ, that featured a black Citroen with a roof top tent..."

That photo is probably from Globe-Driver, a club for enthusiasts of the 1934-1957 Citroën Traction-Avant. These folks don't just polish their machines and visit the Citroën factory. They also put their favorite vehicles to use driving the back roads, sometimes in faraway lands. The club has taken organized trips to southern Africa (South Africa, Swaziland, Botswana, Zambia, and Namibia), Australia, Morocco, across eastern Europe to Moscow, and most recently to southern Argentina. They are currently organizing a trip across Chile, Peru, Bolivia, northern Argentina and Uruguay for 2012.

Globe-Driver got a mention on Jalopnik.com once
http://jalopnik.com/carporn/5705618

The Globe-Driver web site is http://www.globe-driver.fr/index.php The site is in French, but there are English translations for many of the pages.

As an aside, French cars have a tradition of soft suspension with long wheel travel. The Citroën 2CV, for example, was designed with off-road driving in mind. The Peugeot 404 and Renault Dauphine are common sights in photos taken in the 1950s in west Africa and Vietnam.
 
red87

red87

Adventurer
expeditionswest said:
So tell us what makes a Mitsubishi a better choice and which vehicle you would remove from the list to make room for it.

That is what makes this interesting - other peoples opinions.
Click to expand...

I'll throw in my vote for the Mitsubishi's too. I'd boot the Land Rover off the list to make room based solely on its lack of reliability. The last thing you want is a mechanical failure when you're in the middle of nowhere. I've got a 96 Montero SR and it keeps impressing me with its stock off-road capability, engineering and comfort. The SRs have a 3 mode x-fer case (AWD, 4hi, 4lo) and a locking rear diff just like the 4Runners. BUT the Monteros have huge axles, 8" ring in the front and a 9.5" in the rear! They also have decently deep axle gears in certain years (4.6) and an adjustable suspension with three settings. They also are the winningest model in the Daker Rally with something like 14 wins and that's gotta count for something, right? You can find them in most countries (I think) so I'm sure parts wouldn't be too hard to find. They are stupid cheap to buy because they were never a big hit here in the US; you can get a very solid example for $5k or so. The frame is fully boxed from bumper to bumper and the factory skids are decent and cover much of the vital parts. The gas tank is 24 gallons so the range is pretty dang good compared to some of the other choices on that list. Mitsubishi even built in a magnetic work light that plugs into the cigarette lighter. The cord is long enough that you could stick that sweet little light anywhere on the truck you want. One of the biggest issues with them is the limited aftermarket and limited online resources. However, OME/ARB have suspension, a bumper and snorkels for them so that's covered. I'll leave this with a pro/con list for anyone who doesn't feel like reading my entire post :elkgrin:

Has anyone at ExPo ever owned one or done a build?


1994-1997 Mitsubishi Montero SR
Pros:
Dakar Champion
BIG axles with deep gears
Locking center and rear diffs
Seats 7 if needed
Big gas tank (24 gal)
Decent power (215hp)
Popular elsewhere in the world so parts should be around
Good seating position with excellent visibility
Will fit a 33" tire with no lift and no rubbing.
Headlight squirters!

Cons:
Limited aftermarket (at least in the US)
Lacks the massive online resources available to Toyota, LR and Jeep owners
Not as much suspension travel as the Toyotas
The good ones are getting old by the standards in the list
Not real easy to find the SR trim (locker, big axles, 3.5l motor)


The 98-99s are still solid but they have a slightly less powerful motor and 4.2 gears in the axles.
 
red87

red87

Adventurer
haven said:
Re: ExPo versions of the Montero/Pajero

Mitsubishi has its own section of the Forums
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=94

Recent build threads
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55644
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24947

Photos of the Montero/Pajero in action
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23779
Click to expand...

I meant to say Expeditions West, not ExPo :coffeedrink:. I've got a build thread in the Mitsubishi section.
 
Viggen

Viggen

Just here...
Wheelingnoob said:
Its always interesting seeing lists like this and the reactions from people They always seem to question why there choice of vehicle is not on there.
Click to expand...

Its not that my choice of vehicle isnt on the list. My choice of vehicle was never available in this country and is too old for this list (but I do own it, daily drive it and wheel it). Most of the choices made sense. 100 series Cruisers are everywhere, in IFS or solid axle 105, form. Tacos do not have that much in common with the Hilux apparently so that might not be the best choice (although it does share a frame with the 4Runner). 80 series, well, its an 80 series. Theyre like any Cruiser and are everywhere but getting "old." The 4Runner is known as the Hilux Surf so thats not a bad choice.

The XTerra is a North American thing only so if youre heading to Africa, forget about it. The G Wagen is a good choice if you have the coin (even more so that Mercedes is making those parts dealer only, or so Ive read). The JK is cool and all but it has one major flaw: its a Chrysler product. That means poor quality control and reliability. I know that Scott says that he has done a lot in them but I have to inquire whether they were regular Rubicons and not specially built ones (Mopar "skunk works", etc...)? Its hard to ignore the large amounts of others out there who seem to be having issues.

The LR3s are okay but I see them much like the GWagon. Cool if youve got the money. The air suspension can be taken care of with coil conversions so that takes care of a glaring issue and they are capable but they give up a lot when it comes to clearance. You might be able to have the techno wizardry to get you over a rock but if that rock is the right size, your LR3 is going to get hung up. A nice D2 with a locker in the rear will have no trouble as it will have more travel (getting rid of the air suspension gets rid of LRs computer making the suspension work like a solid axle) and better clearance. Ask someone with an early LR3 about the reliability of their truck.

The Suzuki/ Tracker makes sense as they are everywhere and mostly the same. What hangs everyone up is the Patriot/ Compass/ Caliber as the crossover (where many better choices exist for something that is actually capable and proven tough) and the Mercedes wagon. If a road trip is the goal, sure take the Merc wagon. Mercedes took a nose dive after the W124 chassis when it came to reliability and build. The building to a standard was present in the W123, fading with the W124 and basically out for the rest.

Its not a question of loyalty or anything like that, its a question of definition. The criteria were: "CAPABILITY, CAPACITY, DURABILITY, RELIABILITY, and VALUE." Merc wagon on the above? It checks 2 boxes. Patriot/ Caliber/ Compass on the the above? One box, value. Its cheap in price, quality, materials, etc... Like I said earlier, I would choose a Subaru over the Merc and the "Jeep" anyday. It FIRMLY checks capability, capacity, durability, and reliability. It falls short on value because they are used market gold because they offer the above 4 things. Scott, you said that your Subaru was "at the back of the lot" waiting for a motor. Is it due to the head gaskets or something else? I asked that earlier but you didnt respond. The early 2.5s had issues with them whereas the 2.2s did not. The newer 2.5s have no issues anymore.

As I mentioned, it would be a good choice because its a vehicle that you know you will have no troubles with it. Put the two next to each other in a parking lot and ask every person that comes by which they would rather take on a trip that will include pavement, dirt, rocks, probably mud and a thousand miles. I bet the Subaru will get more favor. The dealer network is a somewhat good answer but when you have a vehicle designed for rough duty, youre probably not going to need it. Youll probably be waiting for parts no matter what you drive so it boils down to cost and maintenance and I can hardly imagine the E Class coming out on top.
 
P

Paladin

Banned
Maybe there should have been two lists.

""CAPABILITY, CAPACITY, DURABILITY, RELIABILITY"

And:

"ECONOMY, CAPACITY, RELIABILITY, VALUE"

Then we could fill that one up with W123's, Subarus, and old Corolla wagons.
 
Viggen

Viggen

Just here...
I would rather fly a DC3 in a third world country than a 737. The DC3 is simple and will work (hence, they are the oldest airframe still in active use around the world). The 737 is complicated and more comfortable but when it breaks, the roof will rip off. I compare the E class and the Subaru that way. Again, its all personal choice.
 
P

Paladin

Banned
Yeah, only the Subarus are not crude, loud, slow, uncomfortable or old. But otherwise yes, they just work, and easy to work on.

I did get a chuckle when I saw they still have a locked-center accessory drive system. At least my 2004 did. Holy cow. I put 80,000km on mine, in Detroit, so it's just like the roads in Kazakhstan :coffeedrink: and it was used hard, never in the shop, except for a burnt tail light.
 
Scott Brady

Scott Brady

Founder
Our Forester is in need of its second replacement motor. It has barely over 100,000 miles. We are going to donate it to charity and cut our losses. . .
 
Christian P.

Christian P.

Expedition Leader
Staff member
Some generations of 2.5 engine (the same one you have in your Forester Scott) have had some engine issues.

Many of these engines have been installed in VW Vanagon as they fit in the same space so I have seen many samples when we had the shop.

Most used engines were good but we have seen our share of head gasket leaks and bad engine bearings.

More here:

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/

http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/headgasket.html

Paladin, I am not trying to negate the reliability of the Subaru - they are great cars, no doubt about this.

Just adding some perspective - pretty much every brand/model on the market has some weakness.

I have zero experience with the Benz so I can't comment on this one (but I would like to learn more)
 
Viggen

Viggen

Just here...
expeditionswest said:
Our Forester is in need of its second replacement motor. It has barely over 100,000 miles. We are going to donate it to charity and cut our losses. . .
Click to expand...

Yeah, its an early 2.5 that had the issues with head gaskets which ruined some motors. The newer ones have the solution solved. Same with 80s eating head gaskets, and heater hoses...

Subaru motors, with the exception of the early 2.5s, which in when they switched from the 2.2s which are bulletproof, are fantastically reliable. They are taking huge amounts of boost pressure and high hp/ tq with no real issues.
 
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