USA Defender Officially Coming?
- Thread starter JMyerz
- Start date
Kgh
Let’s go already!
It is coming.
It is coming, the questions are is the 2017 timline valid, and what is it going to be?
Lots of speculation on vehicle specs.
Local (Tampa) LR dealer asked if I wanted to put down a deposit. I asked for promo materials, and was told there is Defender section on internal web, and a bunch of plain gray pages.
Price? Will depend on what it is. JKs are king of sales, is that target? Or Lexus/luxo brands?
I would think LRNA watches prices for Himalaya/ECR/Twisted, etc and knows what a new Defender price point is.
It is coming, the questions are is the 2017 timline valid, and what is it going to be?
Lots of speculation on vehicle specs.
Local (Tampa) LR dealer asked if I wanted to put down a deposit. I asked for promo materials, and was told there is Defender section on internal web, and a bunch of plain gray pages.
Price? Will depend on what it is. JKs are king of sales, is that target? Or Lexus/luxo brands?
I would think LRNA watches prices for Himalaya/ECR/Twisted, etc and knows what a new Defender price point is.
I like the Ford comment considering Ford use to own them. And why do we wonder why Ford is the first to use aluminium on a truck body?
But you know what it is going to be right. It is like when Toyota said they were revamping the FJ and would be sold in the North America market. Some ugly ***** bug farted out the FJ Cruiser. A great frame and drive train with screwed up windows and doors and lost utilitarianism. To conform to governments and lawyers demanding that vehicles keep us safe from our own stupidity rather than us being responsible for our own driving habits we always fall short of what would be great cars. At least the US can't be blamed for it this time.
To conform to European markets means the new design should be easily adaptable to US standards. After all that is why we lost the Defender when it was sold here; airbag and front end collision standards. Wasn't worth Land Rover revising then just to pass US specs anymore. Same reason they screwed up the Jeep in 1997.
I honestly predict some merger of the JK, FJ Cruiser, and Disco 4 at import pricing.
But you know what it is going to be right. It is like when Toyota said they were revamping the FJ and would be sold in the North America market. Some ugly ***** bug farted out the FJ Cruiser. A great frame and drive train with screwed up windows and doors and lost utilitarianism. To conform to governments and lawyers demanding that vehicles keep us safe from our own stupidity rather than us being responsible for our own driving habits we always fall short of what would be great cars. At least the US can't be blamed for it this time.
To conform to European markets means the new design should be easily adaptable to US standards. After all that is why we lost the Defender when it was sold here; airbag and front end collision standards. Wasn't worth Land Rover revising then just to pass US specs anymore. Same reason they screwed up the Jeep in 1997.
I honestly predict some merger of the JK, FJ Cruiser, and Disco 4 at import pricing.
Omar Brannstrom
Adventurer
Hi, just wondering how the screwed upp the Jeep in 1997, can You or somebody tell me more
toyrunner95
Explorer
I think he is referring to the TJ, the cherokee was around till 2001 or 2, and the grand is still going strong. i see the TJ as a VAST improvement over the YJ. 4 link, better seats, nicer overall..
99Discovery
Adventurer
Yup, after extensively watching Jeeps go over technical terrain in Moab, the old carbuerated CJs routinely out-performed the YJ. For whatever reason, the leafs on the front suspension on the YJ would "float/bounce" over rocks and would routinely lose traction. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is in the front end between a CJ7 and a YJ, but it was there, and the YJ was on the bad side of it.
The TJ with all coils (finally) matched the Defender and it's off-road prowess was vastly superior to any jeep prior. Jeep didn't screw up in 1997, they created a legend (even though I DESPISE the TJ interior).
The JK is starting to prove itself, the Unlimited as always been excellent (because it really has no prior competition), but many of the die-hards claim the TJ out performs the short-wheel base JK. This is heresay on my part, as I have limited experience with the SWB JK on technical terrain.
Back to my thoughts (for what they are worth), I would hope pricing is no higher than $50k, it would make it realistic for me, although I'd still probably buy used.
It is nice that all of the rumors on the web concerning the new Defender point to a utilitarian off-road vehicle. This is much improved from the mid 2000s rumors of the DC100 soft-roader concept being all that we had looking forward too. The scrapping of that concept gave me hope for the brand.
Let's just hope we can fit 16" wheels on the thing and aren't stuck with 20" crap due to over-sized calipers!
The TJ with all coils (finally) matched the Defender and it's off-road prowess was vastly superior to any jeep prior. Jeep didn't screw up in 1997, they created a legend (even though I DESPISE the TJ interior).
The JK is starting to prove itself, the Unlimited as always been excellent (because it really has no prior competition), but many of the die-hards claim the TJ out performs the short-wheel base JK. This is heresay on my part, as I have limited experience with the SWB JK on technical terrain.
Back to my thoughts (for what they are worth), I would hope pricing is no higher than $50k, it would make it realistic for me, although I'd still probably buy used.
It is nice that all of the rumors on the web concerning the new Defender point to a utilitarian off-road vehicle. This is much improved from the mid 2000s rumors of the DC100 soft-roader concept being all that we had looking forward too. The scrapping of that concept gave me hope for the brand.
Let's just hope we can fit 16" wheels on the thing and aren't stuck with 20" crap due to over-sized calipers!
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
It's simple. No one is ever going to beat Jeep at it's own game with the Wrangler here in the USA. The price ceiling for the Wrangler has yet to be found. A fully loaded, every option checked, JK Unlimited is around $45k. Thousands of Jeep dealers across the country take a $45k Wrangler, give it the AEV treatment, and then sell it for $75k+.
There is a defined market for a brand new, $70k plus "sports lifestyle/off road vehicle". Basically slotted right between the JK and the G-Class.
The Defender will pick up where the JK leaves off. Entry level probably just under 50k (equivalent in off road specs to a JK Sport).
Want something more Rubicon-esque? Add another $15k+ (and I would bet the farm there's a zero percent chance of it having a front locker)
This also leaves plenty of room in the market for a "Defender Sport" in the $30k range (think modern day Geo Tracker on roids, or new Jeep Renegade)
Its economics and brand image, really. i still hold out hope that it's a nice design. I'm basing that theory on the F-Type which is the closest (in spirit) thing that JLR has made to the "new" Defender. And the F-Type kicks ***. So who knows?
There is a defined market for a brand new, $70k plus "sports lifestyle/off road vehicle". Basically slotted right between the JK and the G-Class.
The Defender will pick up where the JK leaves off. Entry level probably just under 50k (equivalent in off road specs to a JK Sport).
Want something more Rubicon-esque? Add another $15k+ (and I would bet the farm there's a zero percent chance of it having a front locker)
This also leaves plenty of room in the market for a "Defender Sport" in the $30k range (think modern day Geo Tracker on roids, or new Jeep Renegade)
Its economics and brand image, really. i still hold out hope that it's a nice design. I'm basing that theory on the F-Type which is the closest (in spirit) thing that JLR has made to the "new" Defender. And the F-Type kicks ***. So who knows?
Red90
Adventurer
At a lower price point they would increase sales volume ten fold making much more profit. Limited vision.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
Incorrect.
The sunk cost of development, production, and transportation to the USA means that in order to compete with Jeep, they would be at a razor thin (if nonexistent) profit margin.
Take a look at JLR's profit growth in the past 4 years. This growth in profitability is 100% due to the rollout of new super high end luxury vehicles (Range Rover, Range Rover Sport, Evoque).
Source: http://www.jaguarlandrover.com/media/23108/annual-report-2014.pdf
Great reading if you want to get an idea where their mind is at. Hint: NOT a cheap mass production utility 4x4.
GetOutThere
Adventurer
Don't forget that the new Defender won't be competing with the JK. It will be competing with the next Wrangler model, which will likely be sold at a higher price point. I'm pretty sure that's the exact model they will be looking to compete with. A bit of a premium, and some better tech/comfort, and I guarantee people will cross shop the crap out of these two models.
proper4wd
Expedition Leader
Let's not forget, the 1997 Defender SW had an MSRP of $34,000.
Where people get the idea that Defender has ever been a "cheap utility vehicle that competes with the Wrangler" is beyond me.
$34k in 1997 dollars equals $49,500 in 2015 dollars. Pretty much on target for the scenario I described earlier.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=34000&year1=1997&year2=2015
Compare that to a 1997 Wrangler Sport (comparable in equipment to the Defender), at $17k MSRP. (HALF THE COST OF THE DEFENDER)
Let me repeat, Defender has never and will never compete directly with the Wrangler's price point.
They will likely abut one another, so you may see some cross shop between a super loaded Wrangler and a strippy Defender. But that's not really comparable models.
Where people get the idea that Defender has ever been a "cheap utility vehicle that competes with the Wrangler" is beyond me.
$34k in 1997 dollars equals $49,500 in 2015 dollars. Pretty much on target for the scenario I described earlier.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=34000&year1=1997&year2=2015
Compare that to a 1997 Wrangler Sport (comparable in equipment to the Defender), at $17k MSRP. (HALF THE COST OF THE DEFENDER)
Let me repeat, Defender has never and will never compete directly with the Wrangler's price point.
They will likely abut one another, so you may see some cross shop between a super loaded Wrangler and a strippy Defender. But that's not really comparable models.
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This is opinion. Here is mine.
I have had the wonderful experience of driving a 2007 4dr TJ and it was horrific compared to the '93 that I owned.
Part engine since my 93 had the inline 6. Part build quality. The doors are like tin cans. They use $.02 webbing as door limitors. Not comfortable in the slightest. Crap for engine and autotrans.
Just a piece of **** and disgrace to the jeep brand. I was still a proponent until Feb, when I drove one.
If it is not pleasant to drive, it won't make it to any serious off road evaluation, in my book.
After driving one for a week, I know I will never own a wrangler. Have heard they have improved in later years. I seriously wanted to like it too, but the '07 was so horrific, I doubt I will ever give a TJ a chance.