I'm looking to purchase an over cab box for F550 crew cab, I've looked at several options and recently found https://www.rvglobetrekker.com/ The have some nice features like the aluminum extrusion profiles for the external corners (integrated T-slots). They seem new to the market - has anyone used their box or know more about it? Thanks!
(USA) panel options Total Composites or GXV DIY Adventure Kits
- Thread starter charlesrg
- Start date
Victorian
Approved Vendor : Total Composites
they are indeed new. I wouldn’t get too excited about the aluminum extrusions. Although they look pretty slick there are many down sides. One of them is the difference expansion/ contraction between panels and aluminum. This means a lot of extra stress on the glue joints.
not too long ago they contacted us and other companies as potential customers. Lots of information was exchanged. Just to find out 6 month later that they are starting their own operation.... this left a sour taste with a lot of us in the industry.
in any case, there are other technical/ engineering details that need to be proven before any further comment can be made ?
D
Deleted member 12023
Guest
There is more than one way to slice a pizza. I can think of a thousand examples of dissimilar materials adhered together being used in the construction industry. Using aluminum extrusions, on the corners of a composite box, on the back of a truck is a non-issue.
I see a lot of "my way or the highway" comments from Total Composites. Maybe a more encouraging approach to the industry would be helpful. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something from someone.
Victorian
Approved Vendor : Total Composites
ask any engineer and they will agree. In the end it will be the customer that decides what product he buys.
you are right, I should have just ignored that post.... but lately there has been a lot of new manufacturers that claim to be better then xyz... just too see real world reports from users that show pictures of failures and short comings that , in my mind, are not exeptable. I have been in this industry for more than 25 years and have seen it all.
you are correct, I own TC. But most times I’m here as a regular member and therefore like to comment on topics that interest me. Just because I’m a business owner doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion. Maybe the decision makers of the “ criticized “ company is reading along and is going to make changes/ improvements as a result.
in any case, it’s the consumer that will decide where to spend his money.
you are right, I should have just ignored that post.... but lately there has been a lot of new manufacturers that claim to be better then xyz... just too see real world reports from users that show pictures of failures and short comings that , in my mind, are not exeptable. I have been in this industry for more than 25 years and have seen it all.
you are correct, I own TC. But most times I’m here as a regular member and therefore like to comment on topics that interest me. Just because I’m a business owner doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion. Maybe the decision makers of the “ criticized “ company is reading along and is going to make changes/ improvements as a result.
in any case, it’s the consumer that will decide where to spend his money.
bealsonz
New member
Hello Enthusiast! Like you guys, we are avid lovers and users of these vehicles and the lifestyle. For the response on Globe Trekker, I recommend reaching out to www.rvglobetrekker.com as the biased response being given from Total Composites responses are not accurate or fair. The engineers from Globe Trekker have answers to all these questions!! Please go direct. There is NO EXPANSION CONCERNS - on the contrary the aluminum and PIR insulation have the almost exact thermal expansion rates!! On a 20' box there is ~0.019" difference, and this is well within the glue elongation specification = no concern. For the aluminum frame, Globe Trekker team has utilized patent pending thermal break extrusion, which has NOT BEEN DONE BEFORE in this industry.
We also recognized that the market needed a solution for us enthusiast that more comprehensive, custom parts, DIY, and didnt take months/years to build. As manufacturing engineers we recognized an opportunity to standardize, and design for manufacturability that would offer a solution and design for many to enjoy.
And, we publish our pricing - does anyone on the market do that?
Yes, we hope to soon have cabover, step well, wheel well, and other designs, made from our same components just reconfigured.
Happy Wheeling and Adventures!!!
- Poltrusion (fiberglas extrusion) has been around for years - I used to run a plastic injection and extrusion molding company. I understand the UV stability, brittleness with time and cold temps.
- Composite Panels have been around for years - And I helped the new Fed Ex and UPS platforms be made with composite flooring. These have been used in various platforms to 20 years. But, technology on materials and foam is improving. PUR has improved to PIR.
- Aluminum extrusion has been around for years, as well as the thermal break. Safe for your cars, trucks and Skyscrapers. Being an engineer and aluminum extrusion Program manager involved with many automotive companies and platforms.
We also recognized that the market needed a solution for us enthusiast that more comprehensive, custom parts, DIY, and didnt take months/years to build. As manufacturing engineers we recognized an opportunity to standardize, and design for manufacturability that would offer a solution and design for many to enjoy.
And, we publish our pricing - does anyone on the market do that?
Yes, we hope to soon have cabover, step well, wheel well, and other designs, made from our same components just reconfigured.
Happy Wheeling and Adventures!!!
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
Will you trade some panels for a 1983 Jetski, some Tattoos and a bag of weed?
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
Why don’t you take you serious you may ask?
Well sir... this is not an “APPROACH” angle... Its actually the exact opposite...
Soooooo... if your verbiage on this is incorrect, why on gods green earth, would any of us give you thousands of dollars without any proof of concept? Or proof of anything really?
#marketingfail
Well sir... this is not an “APPROACH” angle... Its actually the exact opposite...
Soooooo... if your verbiage on this is incorrect, why on gods green earth, would any of us give you thousands of dollars without any proof of concept? Or proof of anything really?
#marketingfail
bealsonz
New member
Ha Ha, love your response/questions!! How big a bag? Turbo jet ski?
If we go reverse = approach. If you spell check - deproach doesnt exist. And we don't want to reproach. Ironically this was a discussion between marketing and engineering. So, you pick (insert smiley face here). Regardless, gives us more clearance. Oh, and Total Composites did not come out with their 45 degree poltrusion until after we released ours on the website. (Don't think they gave us any design secrets there!) Proof of concept does exist, I've got one and more by the day. Photos attached for ya, and before the integrated brush guard and patent pending stairs+ladder installed.
And best - USA MADE
If we go reverse = approach. If you spell check - deproach doesnt exist. And we don't want to reproach. Ironically this was a discussion between marketing and engineering. So, you pick (insert smiley face here). Regardless, gives us more clearance. Oh, and Total Composites did not come out with their 45 degree poltrusion until after we released ours on the website. (Don't think they gave us any design secrets there!) Proof of concept does exist, I've got one and more by the day. Photos attached for ya, and before the integrated brush guard and patent pending stairs+ladder installed.
And best - USA MADE
Attachments
Last edited:
Victorian
Approved Vendor : Total Composites
quote from my original post:
not too long ago they contacted us and other companies as potential customers. Lots of information was exchanged. Just to find out 6 month later that they are starting their own operation.... this left a sour taste with a lot of us in the industry.
your statement that you came up overnight with your design is bs. Developing and manufacturing a system like yours takes time. I’m standing by my statement that Bill Sands went out pretending to be a customer to gain as much information as possible from us and others.
Because of people like him, we only publish what we think is safe.
As far as the 45 degree extrusion goes: with your manufacturing experience you should know that there is no way that we could have seen your extrusion first and then copied it... it takes months to develop anything like this with samples and dies being made.
read the globetrekker faq and tell me it’s not a direct stab in our direction. We are taking great pride in what we are doing and how we tread our customers. This reflects in happy customers.
You can throw around as many technical details you want, our engineers have been developing and building composite bodies for more than 45 years. Therefore we are very confident in the comments I made earlier.
Only time will tell.
In any case, if you feel like advertising as a company you should sign up as a vendor.
Dave Anderson
New member
@ Total Composites: I am thinking you might want to run your responses by your marketing department. It is clear to me that Globe Trekker is light-years ahead in their quality and durability, and are very transparent about it. If you have something better, prove it. Show it. Market it. Otherwise, whining about how a few very talented guys that have been burning the midnight oil for the past year or more in their garages just blew your doors off, just makes you look like a baby eating sour grapes (you referred to that taste in your mouth).
Bill did what many people do when they are dissatisfied with the product offerings in a market and have the required knowledge to make it better. No one holds all the keys to all the engineering knowledge in the world, so please don't act like you do and cry "Victim!" Discerning people are tired of inferior materials. I am certain that Bill was not the only customer you have lost because you have failed to offer products that were up to the customers standards, specifications, or price points. I think everyone is okay with you taking pride in your products, and you can stand by your statements till the cows come home. My advice is to buy a harmonica.
One of the aims of Globe Trekker is to educate. If that means it exposes your flaws, then you need to ask yourself, what about your products are flawed and how can you fix them. To complain about being stabbed because you have flaws, fixes nothing. If Globe Trekker lied, then expose them. Resting on your laurels of 45 years of building panels does not instantly qualify your products as better, nor disqualifies Globe Trekker products as "b.s.." Who, then is more righteous? The one who educates with science and facts or the one who dismisses it?
In any case, we did not come here to advertise. We came here because we were drawn by two inescapable truths... that overland expedition enthusiasts are one of the most caring and tight communities I have ever come in contact with, and that someone needed to correct your inaccurate misinformation. In a community where integrity counts, we understand that better than most. May you have a very pleasant day and receive many blessings if it is in His will to give it. I pray that He does.
Bill did what many people do when they are dissatisfied with the product offerings in a market and have the required knowledge to make it better. No one holds all the keys to all the engineering knowledge in the world, so please don't act like you do and cry "Victim!" Discerning people are tired of inferior materials. I am certain that Bill was not the only customer you have lost because you have failed to offer products that were up to the customers standards, specifications, or price points. I think everyone is okay with you taking pride in your products, and you can stand by your statements till the cows come home. My advice is to buy a harmonica.
One of the aims of Globe Trekker is to educate. If that means it exposes your flaws, then you need to ask yourself, what about your products are flawed and how can you fix them. To complain about being stabbed because you have flaws, fixes nothing. If Globe Trekker lied, then expose them. Resting on your laurels of 45 years of building panels does not instantly qualify your products as better, nor disqualifies Globe Trekker products as "b.s.." Who, then is more righteous? The one who educates with science and facts or the one who dismisses it?
In any case, we did not come here to advertise. We came here because we were drawn by two inescapable truths... that overland expedition enthusiasts are one of the most caring and tight communities I have ever come in contact with, and that someone needed to correct your inaccurate misinformation. In a community where integrity counts, we understand that better than most. May you have a very pleasant day and receive many blessings if it is in His will to give it. I pray that He does.
bealsonz
New member
Hello Andreas. This is Bill Sands, and let's set the record straight from both sides. (Please stop reading here if you don't wish to read this banter)
True, I did contact you as a potential customer. True, I did contact someone you referred me to for assembly and subframe quotation. The only information I received from you was a quotation or you published on your website. I have the email history if you'd like me to share - happy to.
You have misunderstood me and never asked to "know" me, I have over 30+ years in manufacturing, for many different customers (Sun Microsystems, Daimler, Ford, Tesla, Bosch, Osh Kosh, BAE, Santa Cruz bikes, Solar World, Nautilus, and much more) and technologies (Aluminum extrusion, injection molding, CNC, Sheet Metal design, casting, etc.) - you misunderstand my knowledge base, or somewhat info received from you led me down a path. Please stop slandering me, or that I stole anything proprietory. What you have offered is no different than I can buy here in my own backyard. I can get the EXACT same panel construction from Fiber Tech out of Spokane WA. I can get the EXACT same poltrusion from a myriad of contract manufacturers, even from a company I used to manage. Nothing is patented that would prevent me (or anyone) from copying exact. So, why didn't I if I wished to copy? At the time of our discussions, I was seriously considering building a cabover platform as you well know - and you offered no angles without saw relief cutting, and no bracing to support the cabover.
I did not purchase for 5 predominant reasons.
1. For my build, I was not pleased with the use of poltrusion frame - and connecting my Brush guard by gluing on. You application is great, but the material was not my preference. I sincerely thought of contacting you to sell me panels, but I feared how you'd receive this request - and I was correct. We discussed this between the engineers.
2. I did not like that every component or part installed was custom, or required me to pay someone to fabricate. I still needed a subframe, steps, cabover support, PV mounting, etc.
3. China sourced. As an American manufacturer, I felt that for my money I could source locally, and at a competitive price - and align with my core philosophy that we can build better product here in USA. Yes, competitive American. How could I know that and do that if I did NOT have the manufacturing expertise or know how.
4. Build Timeline. Buying and logistics of your box, sending to a 3rd party or myself, construction time, custom fab time, etc - just was too long due to the "one off" nature. And, was the same message I was hearing in our market place.
5. Price. For my cabover delivered, assembled, on a subframe, with PV mounting was $49k, and it still didn't have doors and windows. Who wouldn't question this?
So, I pitched my design ideas and market opportunities to a few engineering friends and we set out to build and design our own solution, and filling in all the gaps. And with our supply chain relationships and connections, we were able to source right here on the West Coast.
As for the stab, we updated the website once we started seeing all your social media post misleading our enthusiast about color (white only), extrusion usage and thermal expansion, etc. So yes, why not educate our consumers? Was that not the first stone thrown?
Yes, you do have a good design, and build a quality product. I will not debate that, and applaud you! You treat our industry and customers well, I hope we can continue to both support them with options. Again, I will apologize for any hurt feelings you have or grudges your are carrying. I do not, and hope you see there is enough opportunity for both of us to support the community and enthusiast we both enjoy.
Thank you for the recommendation to sign up as a vendor - we will give this serious thought. We've been a little busy fulfilling customer orders, that expressed the same sentiment I did above and purchased our solution. Time will tell. This is my last response to this convo.
________________________________________________________________________
For those of you that read to the end - please take a moment to review, and you decide your preference:
Globe Trekker website, www.rvglobetrekker.com
YouTube Channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTScFyvycmwy4x-54LBONsg
Collaboration build videos,
Here's my truck, purchased Sept 2020. Q4 was dismantle and prep. Started assembly February 2021.
True, I did contact you as a potential customer. True, I did contact someone you referred me to for assembly and subframe quotation. The only information I received from you was a quotation or you published on your website. I have the email history if you'd like me to share - happy to.
You have misunderstood me and never asked to "know" me, I have over 30+ years in manufacturing, for many different customers (Sun Microsystems, Daimler, Ford, Tesla, Bosch, Osh Kosh, BAE, Santa Cruz bikes, Solar World, Nautilus, and much more) and technologies (Aluminum extrusion, injection molding, CNC, Sheet Metal design, casting, etc.) - you misunderstand my knowledge base, or somewhat info received from you led me down a path. Please stop slandering me, or that I stole anything proprietory. What you have offered is no different than I can buy here in my own backyard. I can get the EXACT same panel construction from Fiber Tech out of Spokane WA. I can get the EXACT same poltrusion from a myriad of contract manufacturers, even from a company I used to manage. Nothing is patented that would prevent me (or anyone) from copying exact. So, why didn't I if I wished to copy? At the time of our discussions, I was seriously considering building a cabover platform as you well know - and you offered no angles without saw relief cutting, and no bracing to support the cabover.
I did not purchase for 5 predominant reasons.
1. For my build, I was not pleased with the use of poltrusion frame - and connecting my Brush guard by gluing on. You application is great, but the material was not my preference. I sincerely thought of contacting you to sell me panels, but I feared how you'd receive this request - and I was correct. We discussed this between the engineers.
2. I did not like that every component or part installed was custom, or required me to pay someone to fabricate. I still needed a subframe, steps, cabover support, PV mounting, etc.
3. China sourced. As an American manufacturer, I felt that for my money I could source locally, and at a competitive price - and align with my core philosophy that we can build better product here in USA. Yes, competitive American. How could I know that and do that if I did NOT have the manufacturing expertise or know how.
4. Build Timeline. Buying and logistics of your box, sending to a 3rd party or myself, construction time, custom fab time, etc - just was too long due to the "one off" nature. And, was the same message I was hearing in our market place.
5. Price. For my cabover delivered, assembled, on a subframe, with PV mounting was $49k, and it still didn't have doors and windows. Who wouldn't question this?
So, I pitched my design ideas and market opportunities to a few engineering friends and we set out to build and design our own solution, and filling in all the gaps. And with our supply chain relationships and connections, we were able to source right here on the West Coast.
As for the stab, we updated the website once we started seeing all your social media post misleading our enthusiast about color (white only), extrusion usage and thermal expansion, etc. So yes, why not educate our consumers? Was that not the first stone thrown?
Yes, you do have a good design, and build a quality product. I will not debate that, and applaud you! You treat our industry and customers well, I hope we can continue to both support them with options. Again, I will apologize for any hurt feelings you have or grudges your are carrying. I do not, and hope you see there is enough opportunity for both of us to support the community and enthusiast we both enjoy.
Thank you for the recommendation to sign up as a vendor - we will give this serious thought. We've been a little busy fulfilling customer orders, that expressed the same sentiment I did above and purchased our solution. Time will tell. This is my last response to this convo.
________________________________________________________________________
For those of you that read to the end - please take a moment to review, and you decide your preference:
Globe Trekker website, www.rvglobetrekker.com
YouTube Channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTScFyvycmwy4x-54LBONsg
Collaboration build videos,
Here's my truck, purchased Sept 2020. Q4 was dismantle and prep. Started assembly February 2021.
Attachments
There is a group of folks participating in this thread who are not doing so in the spirit of Expedition Portal. This is a warning shot over the bow of this thread. Pull it back together. Apply the Golden Rule or find another hang. Sorry but the amount of reported posts coming out of this specific group of people has gotten absurd.
Victorian
Approved Vendor : Total Composites
Regarding the thread title. In the experimental camper world, nothing is perfect. There are ton of tradeoffs and tricky decisions to be made after the initial shell is complete. Finding a company that is readily available for tech support would be a key decision for the average hobbyist. The box assembly is the easy part. There are six ways to Sunday to screw up on the buildout and no one has a well written design guide for the DIY'er.
What's interesting about where this thread has gone is that there are a lot of new companies starting up to supply camper box composite building kits and shells. There has been a demand for some time and right now the RV market is hot. There are also a lot more people DIY'ing than in the past especially in the van world. I'm curious to see if any of the big players in the Midwest throw down or if this market will remain a niche of a niche.
All the discussion about technical details is interesting to the super hobby nerds but in the long run it will come down to branding and reputation.
What's interesting about where this thread has gone is that there are a lot of new companies starting up to supply camper box composite building kits and shells. There has been a demand for some time and right now the RV market is hot. There are also a lot more people DIY'ing than in the past especially in the van world. I'm curious to see if any of the big players in the Midwest throw down or if this market will remain a niche of a niche.
All the discussion about technical details is interesting to the super hobby nerds but in the long run it will come down to branding and reputation.
rruff
Explorer
I don't think the foam is an issue at all, but rather the FRP skins. Fiberglass composites that are optimized for strength/weight have a low thermal expansion coefficient in the 7x10-6 range (deg F) vs Al which is ~13x10-6... but I looked up data for Filon and their skins are ~17x10-6... so it looks like a good match is possible if the right skins are chosen. Typical FRP skins have a lot more resin than a high strength layup, and the resin has high expansion, vs glass which is very little. What are you using for the skins?
What are specs on the PIR foam you use, and why was it chosen vs PVC or PU?
I really like the concept of the slotted rail edges... very versatile!