Van Advice: Used 4x4 vs. 2WD and conversion

[BobPeanut]

Hi all, I'm pretty new to 4x4 stuff and would like to hear any advice/opinions you have. I'm looking for a Ford E-series or Chevy Express.

Do you guys think it makes more sense to get one that's already been converted to 4x4 or buy a 2WD and have it converted?
Some things I think I know:

• The price seems roughly the same.
• Used 4x4s would have older components, but many seem to be lovingly maintained.
• Used 2WDs are less likely to be taken care of, a conversion takes time, but everything will be new/custom.

Maybe I am wrong though. Let me know what you think or if you have other 4x4 van advice, too. I haven't owned a 4x4 vehicle before but am at a point where I need one. My Honda Odyssey doesn't care for the snowy mountain winters.

Also, if you happen to know of a van that sounds like it might work for me, here are some other things I'm looking for:

• Gas engine
• Passenger or crew that can have at least one back seat.
• No rust
• Nothing (permanently) built in, or easily removable.
• < $40,000

 

[motofreak0592]

I am by no means an expert but I have been doing my fair share of research. I also do not have much experience with the Chevy Express/GMC Savana platform, I do know that Weldtec, Salem Kroger and Quigley have done 4x4 conversions on those if that's the route you chose to take. There may be more but those are the ones that I have seen.

The E-series chassis seems to have a bit more options for 4x4 conversions and the crowd favorite is U-joint Offroad. Others include but are not limited to Expovans, Quigley, Timberline and Ajs 4x4 vans. U-joint and Expovans utilize as many OEM Ford parts as possible to make future maintenance less of a headache where as Quigley and possibly other companies have custom parts that they make in house and are difficult to get for future repairs. U-joint is the only company that I am aware of that is a one stop shop for E-series 4x4 conversions. They sell all of the parts you will need except the custom drivelines for your 4x4 conversion. I have no experience with Timberline or Ajs.

With that being said my recommendation would be to find a 2005 or newer V10 E-series van. That's the first year of the 5R110 transmission and it has proven to be superior to the previous 4R100 along with being easier to convert to a 4x4.

I don't think you can go wrong with either Expovans or U-joint offroad for the conversion. U-joint utilizes a leaf sprung Ford front axle (99-04) and Expovans uses coil sprung (05-16, 13-16 being ideal due to larger brakes). In the end they both cost about the same(roughly 15-20k in parts). Mike from Expovans is very knowledgeable and will help you along the way but only sells the brackets for the conversion. It will be up to you to source all of your other parts but you will receive a very detailed list of parts you will need. Chris from U-joint is EXTREMELY responsive, will sell you everything you need and help you with any questions along the way.

Good luck! If you're patient, you may be able to build something for about 40k. If you have the Tools, facility and experience to perform the conversion on your own that will save you a good chunk of change, from what I've seen, its about 45 hrs in labor for the conversion. I hope that helps, this forum is a wealth of info and I'm sure some members will chime in and add some invaluable info to help you with your decision.

 

[whith]

Timberline will do a conversion for you I believe for both GM and Ford vans. Weldtec will do one for you in a GM van. Ujoint does now have a second location in Colorado as well their original one in NC for the Ford. I'd just establish the cost of the conversion and options you want and determine your time frame. If you can wait a bit to get a conversion done you're more likely to end up with a better deal as 2wd vans can still be had relatively inexpensively while ones that have been already converted command a premium it seems that goes beyond just the conversion cost depending on the age of the conversion. If you are primarily looking for something to drive in the snow and do moderately difficult wheeling I'd recommend staying open to a GM van. The overall driving manners while on road and over washboards is a plus with the IFS front end.

 

[Herbie]

I haven't owned a 4x4 vehicle before but am at a point where I need one. My Honda Odyssey doesn't care for the snowy mountain winters.

Danger, Will Robinson.

In my experience, AWD is fantastic in snow, but your bog-standard 4WD systems tend so push, badly, and sometimes are scarier than a regular RWD with good tires.

Pursue whichever build makes sense to you, but beware the notion that adding an off-road focused 4WD conversion is going to make your van a snow-killer. If that's your only goal, try to find a Chevy Express/GMC Savanna with AWD and be done with it.

An out-the-door clean 4x4 van for <$40k is probably wishful thinking now too. Prices have escalated such that any company that will do a conversion on a used van is charging ~$20k, so far as I know.

 

[86scotty]

Welcome Mr. Peanut. I agree that an you seem like a good candidate for an AWD Chevy/GMC if you can find one. Do some reading here and on the Sportsmobile forum and get a feel for what you need before you spring for a 4wd van. Fords are tougher, all of them being solid axle conversions, but they don't ride as well. Chevys are much more comfortable on the road but won't take you up the Rubicon trail.

You might want to also narrow down whether you need a passenger or cargo van for whatever your future camper van plans are. Newer passenger vans have windows everywhere and often have curtain airbags which can hamper a buildout.

There is no shortage of info on these things here or on any of them many large and active van forums.

 

[motovan_mn]

Regarding your need for a back seat, I specifically searched for a passenger E-series because I didn't want to have custom fabricated seat and seatbelt mounts for my kiddo in the back. However, now that I finally found a passenger van I am realizing that the seating options are pretty limited. I certainly don't need the full size OEM bench seat, and it seems like the only seats that will bolt up to the OEM floor mounting points are the OEM captain's seats which are surprisingly hard to find. Plenty of aftermarket captain's seats from older conversion vans on the market, but none of them seem to use the OEM mounting points, and thus require drilling into the floor anyway. Same goes for all the builds you see using the 2-seater Transit seats, Sienna seats, etc. All of that is to say that if I were to do it again, I think I would've been OK with purchasing a cargo van and installing my own seat in the back. It's not like the E-series has side curtain airbags or additional crash reinforcements (that I'm aware of) for the rear passengers anyway, and making a seat mount as strong or stronger than the OEM mounting scheme ain't exactly rocket science. I think the Express vans may have side curtain airbags if I remember correctly. And I know the Sprinters have additional reinforcements in the walls on the crew/passenger models.

 

[billiebob]

If you know what you are doing you won't be asking the question.
If you have no clue and are asking the question buy one already converted.
Or buy one that came with 4WD from the manufacturer.

Any conversion is a custom build, you need to know if the builder had credentials or is just some hack capitalizing on a popular mod.

A $40K budget says you cannot afford to build one, shop for the best used one you can find. I'd recommend a GMC Savanna AWD thing. Full factory build, service it at any GM dealer. Parts are easy to find. Warranty or not, a factory build has more reliability/serviceability than any after market conversion.

 

[cobro92]

If you know what you are doing you won't be asking the question.
If you have no clue and are asking the question buy one already converted.
Or buy one that came with 4WD from the manufacturer.

Any conversion is a custom build, you need to know if the builder had credentials or is just some hack capitalizing on a popular mod.

A $40K budget says you cannot afford to build one, shop for the best used one you can find. I'd recommend a GMC Savanna AWD thing. Full factory build, service it at any GM dealer. Parts are easy to find. Warranty or not, a factory build has more reliability/serviceability than any after market conversion.

40k seems like a fine amount to me. Used vans can be found for 15k ish and the conversion from U Joint will be another 25k with parts and labor. Of course if you want to add things like bumpers, ladders, etc then it will be more but you can definitely find a van and have u joint make it 4x4 for 40k.


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[BobPeanut]

Thanks for all the info and suggestions! I was looking at AWD vans for a while, so I'll get back to that per your recommendations. I would still like to do some off-roading, but not technical rock crawling type stuff. Are unmodified vans generally able to travel over high clearance areas or do they need to be lifted? There have been too many times where we aren't able to go somewhere on trips due to rough, rutted roads and having a lower vehicle.

 

[Willsfree]

Chevy Express AWD with a 3+ inch lift and 32" tires will get you up above many obstacles. Here is the thread with 58 pages of information about the GM fullsize AWD Vans. There have been a few for sale here on EP too for fair prices. One of the iconic express vans recently sold for under $40K. This is the Coolaid I drink...and drive in snow and desert; handles well on the road too. I get around 14 mpg every tank. Used to get 17 mpg without the lift and rack. Stock configuration is quite low; I would recommend a lift.

 

[whith]

You can add a lift to an AWD GM van for around $250-300. Do that. I’ve spent a lot of time in a 4wd van keeping it in 2wd as long as possible in snow before changing. No offense to those who have suggested 2wd may be just as good, but they are simply wrong. The AWD is a good suggestion though If it fits your payload goals.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

It's a little higher than your budget and may not be exactly what you are looking for, but I've been evaluating the Ford Transits lately in AWD and they may be worth a look for you; they are apparently pretty good overall. Below is vid from Scott Brady about them; may not be what you need but it's another option to consider and they come with a lot of different length and roof height options. Further to @Herbie's point, I would bet that the AWD Transit on good tires would be great on-road in most poor condition situations like snow, and it doesn't appear terrible in the milder off-road stuff in the video either.

 

[rruff]

Are unmodified vans generally able to travel over high clearance areas or do they need to be lifted?

The old style body on frame vans can be lifted easily, bigger tires added, and they'll do fine with mild offroading. I'm thinking 2wd. While you are at it, you can add a lower geared rear end and locker and you'll be in good shape. The new style vans have terrible ground clearance, but at least the Transit can be lifted a couple inches (not cheap though) and bigger/better tires added... that one even can be had with AWD.

4WD is fine in when you are offroad or really in the muck on road, but they are not as good as AWD for conditions where traction is good in some spots and not in others. For instance a winding road that is mostly clear but has some slick patches, forget it... you have to leave it in 2WD.

 

[FROADER]

My 1997 V10 Club Wagon with 100k original miles and a very mild build (easily removed) will be for sale next week.

I'm getting the rear door fixed as I type this (cables and handle finally broke), cleaning it up this weekend and will take some for sale photos this weekend. Only thing is it does have 2 rust holes on the roof...

Here is the link to my thread of what's been done to it.
Spaceball 1

 

[BobPeanut]

Wow, thanks so much guys. I really appreciate all the responses.

Chevy Express AWD with a 3+ inch lift and 32" tires will get you up above many obstacles. Here is the thread with 58 pages of information about the GM fullsize AWD Vans. There have been a few for sale here on EP too for fair prices. One of the iconic express vans recently sold for under $40K. This is the Coolaid I drink...and drive in snow and desert; handles well on the road too. I get around 14 mpg every tank. Used to get 17 mpg without the lift and rack. Stock configuration is quite low; I would recommend a lift.

Good to hear that set up works well for you! I'll look into something similar. Your van looks great. I'd love it in black. Looks like my work day will be nonexistent and I'll be reading 58 pages of van info instead

You can add a lift to an AWD GM van for around $250-300. Do that. I’ve spent a lot of time in a 4wd van keeping it in 2wd as long as possible in snow before changing. No offense to those who have suggested 2wd may be just as good, but they are simply wrong. The AWD is a good suggestion though If it fits your payload goals.

Thanks for the price estimate. It makes that seem way better than a 4x4 conversion, hah. It was hard for me to initially separate 4wd from lift as two different things. Hearing that you wait as long as possible to switch to 4wd is very reassuring that I should go with AWD. People have either 4wd or AWD where I live, but I guess hauling and towing factors into the equation, too. We moved two tons of bricks in my minivan once...we just made two trips. Any van will be able to hold the weight we need.

It's a little higher than your budget and may not be exactly what you are looking for, but I've been evaluating the Ford Transits lately in AWD and they may be worth a look for you; they are apparently pretty good overall. Below is vid from Scott Brady about them; may not be what you need but it's another option to consider and they come with a lot of different length and roof height options. Further to @Herbie's point, I would bet that the AWD Transit on good tires would be great on-road in most poor condition situations like snow, and it doesn't appear terrible in the milder off-road stuff in the video either.

My husband was trying to talk me into the Transit, but I just like the older stuff better. I have a weird passion for free Craigslist and reusing/repurposing things in general. It adds a fun element to projects, and I like to keep getting use out of things if I can. Something about my MacGyver-style doesn't feel right on a newer vehicle. We are looking for low roof and standard length, so the Chevy/GM aren't limiting to us. I personally find it hilarious to see an Amazon delivery van off roading, but it does handle it pretty well!

The old style body on frame vans can be lifted easily, bigger tires added, and they'll do fine with mild offroading. I'm thinking 2wd. While you are at it, you can add a lower geared rear end and locker and you'll be in good shape. The new style vans have terrible ground clearance, but at least the Transit can be lifted a couple inches (not cheap though) and bigger/better tires added... that one even can be had with AWD.

4WD is fine in when you are offroad or really in the muck on road, but they are not as good as AWD for conditions where traction is good in some spots and not in others. For instance a winding road that is mostly clear but has some slick patches, forget it... you have to leave it in 2WD.

I'll look into the lower gears and locker. I'm still learning what all these components do, so the recommendation is really helpful. Another reassuring comment about 4wd! My house is up about two miles of switchbacks, so it sounds like I couldn't even use 4wd to get home.

My 1997 V10 Club Wagon with 100k original miles and a very mild build (easily removed) will be for sale next week.

I'm getting the rear door fixed as I type this (cables and handle finally broke), cleaning it up this weekend and will take some for sale photos this weekend. Only thing is it does have 2 rust holes on the roof...

Here is the link to my thread of what's been done to it.
Spaceball 1

A 97 is a bit older than my husband would be willing to consider. Your build thread is awesome! I'm going to save it for reference. Maybe I missed it, but are you actually able to camp/sleep with MTBs in the van?


I am very excited about the (yet again) new direction my van search is going. I'll post again once I find something and let you guys know what I'm up to. Apologies if my formatting was bad in this post; still getting used to it.