WANTED; starting the search for "MY" '97-01 G320

[4x4abc]

stop

Jeremy,

stop horsing around - get yourself an '02+ G500. You'll never look back.

 

[mk216v]

Heck, I'm interested in looking at any preMBUSA W463 (300GE/G300, G320, G500) as they're darn hard to find.

Jeremy,

stop horsing around - get yourself an '02+ G500. You'll never look back.

Hehe, I appreciate your wisdom kind Harald.

I may end up with one as I have a feeling I'll be searching for awhile for a preMBUSA rig, and even if/when I do find one, it could have a gazillion miles, not been taken care of, all sorts of issues, etc. With a '02-03 G500, at least I can be choosier (choosy mom's choose Jif remember :sombrero with finding the RIGHT G500.

 

[zimm]

harald is right. it comes down to broken parts and spending money.


if you buy a pre 2002, you spend money fixing normal wear and tear items just because the damn thing is old... aka zimms 1996..... $$$$

if you buy a 2002-2004, you end up fixing things that MB **************** from being cheap cocksuckers looking to bilk the US market.... $$$$

but with the latter of the two options you get a newer truck thats worth more money and has lots more balls per gallon. better ROI.

unless your looking at crossing the congo the up front premium for a diesel doesnt add up for newbie buyers in the US like us. we have cheap gas, its readily available even in central america, we have vast distances of improved highways to get from rough spot to rough spot, and a 500 will kick an anemic diesels *** on those roads.

that having been said.... if i could find a low mileage LHD toyota 70 series diesel troopy in the US, i'd burn the G for the insurance money! (so i do sorta get your desire)

 

[knorrena]

I too am hunting for a G. Could you elaborate on those things that MB cheaped out on?

 

[mhiscox]

If you buy a 2002-2004, you end up fixing things that MB **************** from being cheap cocksuckers looking to bilk the US market.... $$$$

I too am hunting for a G. Could you elaborate on those things that MB cheaped out on?

I think the general agreement in automotive circles is that--whether a GWagen, S Class, ML or whatever--Daimler management decided to let the cost-cutters get the upper hand over the engineers on the models that came out in that period. In fact, when I was thinking about buying my '06 S65, an higher-up MB employee I knew said, in essense, "A 2006 should be OK. You wouldn't want one of the earlier ones, but by '06 they'd pretty much gotten their act back together."

 

[stevegsmith]

ZIMM (meh), dudeski, ROI?!?!?

Really?

Really really, or just sorta kinda ROI?

 

[mk216v]

harald is right. it comes down to broken parts and spending money.

if you buy a pre 2002, you spend money fixing normal wear and tear items just because the damn thing is old... aka zimms 1996..... $$$$

if you buy a 2002-2004, you end up fixing things that MB **************** from being cheap cocksuckers looking to bilk the US market.... $$$$

but with the latter of the two options you get a newer truck thats worth more money and has lots more balls per gallon. better ROI.

unless your looking at crossing the congo the up front premium for a diesel doesnt add up for newbie buyers in the US like us. we have cheap gas, its readily available even in central america, we have vast distances of improved highways to get from rough spot to rough spot, and a 500 will kick an anemic diesels *** on those roads.

that having been said.... if i could find a low mileage LHD toyota 70 series diesel troopy in the US, i'd burn the G for the insurance money! (so i do sorta get your desire)

I hear you on spending money...trying to look at an even playfield in the end;

Option 1; keep my cherry '80 (purchased for a pretty penny), add a 606A swap, maybe also swapping from 4spd manual to auto, eventually restore/repaint it in order to preserve for future. Estimated into it; $50k?

Option 2; keep searching for a nice G320 and drive it as is, probably won't need any paint/bodywork as newer and has had less time to rust. Estimated into it; $35k w/ some needed repairs via a PPI

Option 3; throw in the towel on yearning for a preMBUSA W463, suck it up, deal with the personally-less-pleasing MBUSA cluster/buttons/etc and bit worse MPG from the V8, probably won't need any paint/bodywork as newer and has had less time to rust. Estimated into it; $30k+ w/ maybe some small needed repairs via a PPI

Note this doesn't include any overlanding mods.
In the end, I'm seeing the light some of your are shedding...MBUSA W463 is the more comfortable, prevalent, potentially less costly option of all of them, although it does have some problem areas like with any vehicle. Hopefully they'd have been taken care of by the previous owner's diligent maintenance.

You're probably asking what my requirements are;
-German
-4wd (still on the fence about pros/cons regarding part-time and full-time...full-time is ultimately "safer" but also eats more fuel)
-at minimum, factory center and rear locker
-aiming for at least 14/18mpg (I know I'm right on the fence with a W463 G500)
-sufficient cargo room w/ seats down (prefer split fold seats)

Dreaming about;
-turbo diesel
-higher than 14/18mpg
-simpler to work on the better

I've come to the conclusion that here in America we get the short end of the stick one way or another and that no vehicle will have everything I want;
-euro 300GDT; not available here, even if it was, see Zimm's 96 $$$ note above
-G280CDi PUR; ultimate but not available here, many electronics(not KISSable), high initial cost
-Touareg2 3.0L TDi; avail here, great torque and MPG, but rear diff lock rare, higher initial used cost, not as much cargo room a G due to curved hatch, damn thing goes into limp mode if it's low on urea(not KISSable)

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts. I'm still keeping my eyes open.

 

[zimm]

ZIMM (meh), dudeski, ROI?!?!?

Really?

Really really, or just sorta kinda ROI?

absolutely really really. any up front money spent on a diesel over and above what the MPG saves over a gasser, is money not spent on a trip, or not spent on something else much more useful on the rig. if you can have a fully decked out expedition rig for the cost of swapping a late model gasser to a diesel, when all the diesel will do is spare you two jerry cans all the while under-performing compared to the gas motor... whats the point, unless the point is to brag about your diesel?

and yes, i did a simple cost analysis where i put the cost of the conversion into my WORST performing conservative fund and used 5000 miles a year for 10 years as a pro rate (quite high for a non dd) when factoring fuel savings.

do it. its amazing what you'll lose! the only variable you cant pin down is what fuel will cost in the future so i took $3.50/gal at an increase of 3% a year, which with china up and coming is probably low... but i offset that in my mind with the fact i never keep a rig that long anyway.

ya gotta think this **** out, dude!

 

[mk216v]

absolutely really really. any up front money spent on a diesel over and above what the MPG saves over a gasser, is money not spent on a trip, or not spent on something else much more useful on the rig. if you can have a fully decked out expedition rig for the cost of swapping a late model gasser to a diesel, when all the diesel will do is spare you two jerry cans all the while under-performing compared to the gas motor... whats the point, unless the point is to brag about your diesel?

and yes, i did a simple cost analysis where i put the cost of the conversion into my WORST performing conservative fund and used 5000 miles a year for 10 years as a pro rate (quite high for a non dd) when factoring fuel savings.

do it. its amazing what you'll lose! the only variable you cant pin down is what fuel will cost in the future so i took $3.50/gal at an increase of 3% a year, which with china up and coming is probably low... but i offset that in my mind with the fact i never keep a rig that long anyway.

ya gotta think this **** out, dude!

I'm definitely following your thoughts Zimm, even if discussing upgrading my '80 300GD from 617(I-5 NA diesel--for those of you out there not familiar w/ Merc engine codes) to a 606A(I-6 turbo diesel)...the cost of a running donor vehicle is $7k, then all the other bits for the swap (luckily I'd have the swap labor "covered" so will save me upfront money there) and you're looking at over $10k easy in parts most likely.

One point to a TD swap would be better MPG so better for environment(speaking about in part time 4WD W460 vs full time 4WD 463--drivetrain sucks more fuel), glorious turbo diesel whine from the exhaust, recycling a vehicle vs getting rid of it(moot as long as next owner doesn't destroy it).

Could you possibly post your simple analysis here Zimm(if you happened to have saved it)?
What year is your G BTW, '02 G500?

 

[otiswesty]

Hey Jeremy,
Why not just keep the 300GD factory stock, take an extra day off work for the drive to Utah or Death Valley. That thing would do fine off road. Your main dissatisfaction is probably due to highway driving performance. Buy a VW Golf TDI for the highway and build an adventure rig out of the Gwagen. Tom Sheppard isn't driving his G290 to the market and up the grade north of town for errands.

If you want a do-all rig out of the box, any 460/463 gasser will do, or a 300GDT like Alan's would do the trick if you could find one. Leave the stock tire size though. The pre 2002 463's are more desireable in large part due to the rarity which is associaited with them. The build quality issues are not really as dramatic as they are made out to be. The locker switch position is improved in the latest models (2002+), the dash allows for a 2 Din unit for nav systems, the minor things like glove box latch and interior door handles are replaced with identical units that are used on the current 2011 models. Same for the window regulator, although that problem has yet to be fixed definitively.

I sold my 300GD and saved up some coin over a few months for the G500. If my other car wasn't a meandering Westfalia, I would probably have been satisfied with keeping my 300GD and DDing a faster car. Just saying that there are options that include adjusting your expectations. Have you read Gary Stroh's account of his pan American trip in his naturally aspirated 300GD? If not, you should. There is nothing "wrong" with your Gwagen as it was built from the factory.

 

[stevegsmith]

absolutely really really. any up front money spent on a diesel over and above what the MPG saves over a gasser, is money not spent on a trip, or not spent on something else much more useful on the rig. if you can have a fully decked out expedition rig for the cost of swapping a late model gasser to a diesel, when all the diesel will do is spare you two jerry cans all the while under-performing compared to the gas motor... whats the point, unless the point is to brag about your diesel?

and yes, i did a simple cost analysis where i put the cost of the conversion into my WORST performing conservative fund and used 5000 miles a year for 10 years as a pro rate (quite high for a non dd) when factoring fuel savings.

do it. its amazing what you'll lose! the only variable you cant pin down is what fuel will cost in the future so i took $3.50/gal at an increase of 3% a year, which with china up and coming is probably low... but i offset that in my mind with the fact i never keep a rig that long anyway.

ya gotta think this **** out, dude!

I feel a little better. Just wanted to make sure you weren't referring to resale.
Fuel economy, future expenses, upgrades, maintenance.....the economics (cost) of owning a vehicle and what you get out of it, I get that part.
Jeremy's signature quote sums it up.

Jeremy dude, I think the answer is for you to have both. Mostly because you're a baller though. :ylsmoke:

 

[mk216v]

Hey Jeremy,
Why not just keep the 300GD factory stock, take an extra day off work for the drive to Utah or Death Valley. That thing would do fine off road. Your main dissatisfaction is probably due to highway driving performance. Buy a VW Golf TDI for the highway and build an adventure rig out of the Gwagen. Tom Sheppard isn't driving his G290 to the market and up the grade north of town for errands.

If you want a do-all rig out of the box, any 460/463 gasser will do, or a 300GDT like Alan's would do the trick if you could find one. Leave the stock tire size though. The pre 2002 463's are more desireable in large part due to the rarity which is associaited with them. The build quality issues are not really as dramatic as they are made out to be. The locker switch position is improved in the latest models (2002+), the dash allows for a 2 Din unit for nav systems, the minor things like glove box latch and interior door handles are replaced with identical units that are used on the current 2011 models. Same for the window regulator, although that problem has yet to be fixed definitively.

I sold my 300GD and saved up some coin over a few months for the G500. If my other car wasn't a meandering Westfalia, I would probably have been satisfied with keeping my 300GD and DDing a faster car. Just saying that there are options that include adjusting your expectations. Have you read Gary Stroh's account of his pan American trip in his naturally aspirated 300GD? If not, you should. There is nothing "wrong" with your Gwagen as it was built from the factory.

Hehe, you mean leave an entire day early so I can arrive in time. :smiley_drive::sombrero:

You're spot on--my main dissatisfaction is that like with most here, a solid amount of our time to our journey spot involves freeway speeds. Freeway is ok in the 300GD if I'm going downhill but straight is pretty wound out and uphill is a workout for the hazard switch.

While I love VW TDi's, I'm trying to decrease my car count to just 1 vehicle (a G) as I only need 1 rig. Moreover, in trying to build an adventure rig out of a G, I need it to be freeway friendly. I still should talk to Tom Schuey about the 5spd in his 300GD and see if it helps a lot as I know they travel freeway quite a bit. That may be a short term fix, otherwise it's either deal with lots of hazard blinks, swap in a more powerful TD, or move on to a W463.
If you would have kept your white 300GD, would you have just dealt with the slow paced travel?

A G300DT is the rig I really honestly want and feel would be perfect for me (606A, auto, preMBUSA so pleasing cluster/switches) but just can't find one(AFAIK there are less than 5 of them in the USA?) and importing one sounds like a nightmare(time/$).

I do appreciate this info and things to mull over in regards to my expectations.
I haven't seen Gary's account--might you have a link to it? I know the German(?, can't remember their name right now) couple traveled the world in their blue(?) 300GD that is now a piece of history, so it can be done. I'm unfortunately just too jaded anymore with "quicker" vehicles so it's REALLY difficult to dial it back for me.

Thank you again Eric--MUCH appreciated! :smiley_drive:

 

[mk216v]

I feel a little better. Just wanted to make sure you weren't referring to resale.
Fuel economy, future expenses, upgrades, maintenance.....the economics (cost) of owning a vehicle and what you get out of it, I get that part.
Jeremy's signature quote sums it up.

Jeremy dude, I think the answer is for you to have both. Mostly because you're a baller though. :ylsmoke:

Don't think I haven't thought about it Steveo...would be wasteful/redundant spending in some ways but I REALLY hate to think about parting with this Oregon native(since '81) and well cared for 300GD. It's like thinking about selling a family member.

 

[mk216v]

So I had an epiphany early this am while driving on car-less Sunday morning roads, enjoying many sights I don't normally see(duck swimming alone in a pond, people being tugged by their dogs, etc) when I'm driving my Allroad and maintaining a faster speed...my frustration with my 300GD isn't so much that the power-weight ratio is low(although I would like more power so that it's capable of whatever I throw at it terrain-wise) and that the rig is slow, it's that I assume that(sympathize with) drivers behind me are frustrated with me being a hazard in the roadway since I can't keep up with the speeds of modern traffic from a standstill or up hills. So, if I change my perception towards others behind me (perhaps they're not ALL frustrated? ), then I can just sit back, relax, let the G go at it's pace, and enjoy the gorgeous view. :smiley_drive:

 

[otiswesty]

http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=795

or you can just borrow my copy, anytime.

E