toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
The frame is made in the US. I guess that's what toyota gets for using American steel. At least toyota will replace the frame or the whole truck of its bad enough
Molon Labe
What is the greatest overland vehicle ever sold new in the US?
- Thread starter Scott Brady
- Start date
The frame is made in the US. I guess that's what toyota gets for using American steel. At least toyota will replace the frame or the whole truck of its bad enough
Molon Labe
4x4junkie
Explorer
If that's the case, explain why this supposed better MPG with an auto is not showing up in recent tests done on these cars? As I said previously, there is still a good 4 or more MPG difference on many identical cars within the latest few model years, the only difference being an auto vs manual trans. Your statement about mileage is also contradictory... Fuel efficiency is nothing more than gallons burned vs miles traveled. Emissions is an totally different (separate) subject.
Viggen
Just here...
Really? You dont think that multiple cats, particulate filters, complicated EGR systems, primary and secondary air injection systems, etc... has nothing effect upon miles per gallon? You dont think that added stress and restriction will have no noticeable effect? You should probably not say that on an actual car forum. They might educate you likewise...
4 mpg difference? Show me some examples. Im showing about 2. For example, 6AT 4 cylinder Focus delivers 31 mpg while the 5MT is delivering 30 mpg. City 27 versus 26 and highway 38 versus 36. The AT, shockingly enough, is delivering better mileage. Why? No torque converter. VWs show the same thing. On the SUV side, 2002 Ford Explorer V6 shows a 1 MPG difference between auto and manual.
Where the frame was made is inconsequential. The fact is they had to replace SO many frames in a massive recall. I have a problem calling something with a frame that has, or will, rust out from underneath you, the ' greatest' of anything.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
It only affected only 150000 trucks. I'm pretty sure I could find a recall on whatever vehicle you drive. So you better stop driving it
Molon Labe
transporterjr
IsLost
Actually, it's 800,000 trucks - 150,000 was only the 2001-2004 trucks, but the recall goes back to 1995. On the 01-04, it wasn;t the entire frame like the older models - but the spare tire carrier. Note that the recall isn't applied to all states, so if you buy a used truck and you are the salt zone, check and see if it was addressed, your truck could have come from a warmer zone.It only affected only 150000 trucks. I'm pretty sure I could find a recall on whatever vehicle you drive. So you better stop driving it
Molon Labe
New Toyota Tacoma's have a 15 year, unlimited mileage rust guarantee now, so no worries going forward.
4x4junkie
Explorer
I haven't a clue what you're trying to get at or how any of that relates to a vehicle's transmission... I never said anything about such things affecting mileage of a vehicle (infact I never even brought them up at all, you did).
Anyway, I misread your post, you did specify ones 'without a torque converter' (something Laxaholic didn't specify, so unknown if he was referring to the same or not), which I do believe I already mentioned the CVT as an example of a torque converter-less transmission as something that should get similar mileage. However such transmissions (and the sequential shift auto/manual unit in the Focus you mentioned) are not exactly commonplace yet (and to my knowledge are all but non-existent in full-frame SUVs and trucks).
So in regard to vehicles that would be suitable for "overland travel" (the subject this thread was originally about
) I stand by what I said.And you can talk about cutting-edge automatics and MPG all you want, it still leaves the fact manuals are simpler/less complicated (not computer-controlled, reliant on umpteen different sensors), has a lower cost to rebuild (if it should ever even be needed) and the simple fact some of us would rather shift our own gears.
It only affected only 150000 trucks. I'm pretty sure I could find a recall on whatever vehicle you drive. So you better stop driving it
Molon Labe
The Tacoma frame recall originally affected 850,000 trucks. 150,000 is just the latest round for spare tires falling off trucks (making a full million Tacomas in total now involved).
Also lets not forget the 110,000 Tundras that were recalled for the same issues too.
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beat by 3 minutes lol
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transporterjr
IsLost
Nice rig! I saw reference to these once. Was going to ask if you own one, but then I clicked on the link at the bottom of your post. What years were these produced? Thanks for bring an obscure - to me - rig to the front!
Happy trails,
John
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
I haven't a clue what you're trying to get at or how any of that relates to a vehicle's transmission... I never said anything about such things affecting mileage of a vehicle (infact I never even brought them up at all, you did).
Anyway, I misread your post, you did specify ones 'without a torque converter' (something Laxaholic didn't specify, so unknown if he was referring to the same or not), which I do believe I already mentioned the CVT as an example of a torque converter-less transmission as something that should get similar mileage. However such transmissions (and the sequential shift auto/manual unit in the Focus you mentioned) are not exactly commonplace yet (and to my knowledge are all but non-existent in full-frame SUVs and trucks).
So in regard to vehicles that would be suitable for "overland travel" (the subject this thread was originally about
And you can talk about cutting-edge automatics and MPG all you want, it still leaves the fact manuals are simpler/less complicated (not computer-controlled, reliant on umpteen different sensors), has a lower cost to rebuild (if it should ever even be needed) and the simple fact some of us would rather shift our own gears.
The Tacoma frame recall originally affected 850,000 trucks. 150,000 is just the latest round for spare tires falling off trucks (making a full million Tacomas in total now involved).
Also lets not forget the 110,000 Tundras that were recalled for the same issues too.
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beat by 3 minutes lol
It's still the failure of Dana for making a crap frame.
Molon Labe
4x4junkie
Explorer
********
Origin of the frame has nothing to do with it.
15 years ago I tried to help a buddy find another truck after he rolled his '84 (would be an imported-from-Japan truck w/Toyota-made frame) to swap his good parts over to. Even here in Ca I found examples where I could poke holes right through the frame with my finger.
The problem is the boxed construction of the frame. Dirt, mud and other debris collects inside of it, which then causes it to retain moisture. Add in a little bit of road salt and anyone should be able to see how the frame would immediately begin to disappear.
Viggen
Just here...
You mentioned cars and then went on to throw out two examples, one a manual 80's Accord versus a modern automatic Civic and then your BII. I merely pointed out the MPG is more than just transmissions, its other things as well. Another would be the FJC which has the manual at only at 2 mpg disadvantage. Hardly the 4+ you were referencing in an earlier post. If the transfer cases were the same, I bet they wouldve been neck and neck.
My point with the emissions equipment is to disprove the claim that older cars were more efficient than newer ones. Increased emissions equipment does reduce mpg but in trade off for having a cleaner, less polluting burn.
As for an advanced 'overland in the US' truck, whats wrong with a modern automatic? Why is everyone so afraid of them? Do they have sensors? Absolutely. Are they better than the manual transmissions available right now? Absolutely. They handle more power, are better at selecting the right gear for efficiency and have more gears to choose from. The US is not Africa where you might not be able to get to a fully prepped shop. There was just a story about the 'loneliest place' which really was not that far from a paved road where you could get a tow to any number of dealerships for a repair. Yes, an automatic will probably need a rebuild before a manual transmission will but thats not going to be for at least 100k miles from new. Not to mention that an automatic delivers better control and the slip is actually beneficial off road (since we are talking about 'overland travel', this might not matter). With so much time spent on hard pack or tarmac, where does the supposed 'toughness' of a manual actually come into play?
The fear of tech in here is hilarious. Im sure that as soon as Toyota figures out smarter transmissions, everyones opinions will change. Manuals are going away. Its just a fact. They cannot keep up with the demands placed upon them by manufacturers and the wider purchasing public. The new ZF 8 speeds are fantastic and are being used in 13 different makes, from Dodge to Bentley. It has a 4.xx first gear and there is a version that can handle 750 ft. lbs. of torque. Jeeps Grand Cherokee gets the mileage it does because of this transmission. ZF makes great transmissions too. There are countless LRs and BMWs (just to name two) with 100k+ mile automatics out there, many without even a filter change (because that requires removing a heavy crossmember which is a PITA).
Its not just the frames that have been rusting out. I see 2000s era Tacomas around here all the time. The numbers with sheetmetal rust are staggering. I dont see many Rangers, Dakotas, or the competition with these problems. You cannot blame Dana. Ask someone with a 40 or 60 series (myself included). When buying one, the first thing you check is the frames condition (even though that is 'made in Japan')
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
I've seen rusted discoveries, range rovers, scouts, checked, fords, dodges, jeeps and so on. Whats your point? When ever I go to Minnesota I'm astounded by the amount of new and old trucks that are rusted.
Molon Labe
Molon Labe
casioqv
Dr. Diesel
I'd make the case that the Volvo 245 wagon is a strong contender for best overland vehicle.
Despite being a car the toughness of it's suspension and chassis are second to none- I think a stock 245 would give even a G-wagen a run for the money as far as distance traveled on rough roads before suspension or frame failure. It's offroad ability is limited (however far better than most would believe)... but I'd argue avoiding mechanical failure should trump offroad ability in an overland vehicle. You can always execute a recovery with the right gear, but you can't always repair a fatigued suspension or chassis.
Some other features of the Volvo 245:
If you doubt the toughness of the 245 check out this video a friend of mine made:
Youtube: Volvo 240 Death
And of course, Gary Sowerby made the Guiness book of world records for fastest world circumnavigation by car (74 days, 1 hour, 11 minutes) in a Volvo 245 back in 1980:
33 years after the 26,738 miles of record-breaking abuse, his car still functions like new!
Despite being a car the toughness of it's suspension and chassis are second to none- I think a stock 245 would give even a G-wagen a run for the money as far as distance traveled on rough roads before suspension or frame failure. It's offroad ability is limited (however far better than most would believe)... but I'd argue avoiding mechanical failure should trump offroad ability in an overland vehicle. You can always execute a recovery with the right gear, but you can't always repair a fatigued suspension or chassis.
Some other features of the Volvo 245:
- Tons of suspension flex (roughly twice that of my stock '86 Isuzu Trooper)
- Equal front/rear weight distribution
- Extremely tough roof and chassis- rollbar is unnecessary
- Very simple and field-serviceable
- After 1986 fully cold dipped galvanized rust-proof chassis
- Dana 30 rear axle accepts off the shelf Jeep lockers
- Available with a 30+ mpg diesel engine and 5 speed manual
If you doubt the toughness of the 245 check out this video a friend of mine made:
Youtube: Volvo 240 Death
And of course, Gary Sowerby made the Guiness book of world records for fastest world circumnavigation by car (74 days, 1 hour, 11 minutes) in a Volvo 245 back in 1980:
33 years after the 26,738 miles of record-breaking abuse, his car still functions like new!
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Viggen
Just here...
I guess the frames were made by Dana, huh?
Adventure Copan
Adventurer
There are way to many good ones and way to many variables to definitively say one is the best. However if I'm forced to chose I'd lean towards the LC 100 due to it's world wide use amongst many other awesome qualities IMHO. If space isn't an issue, a LC40, a solid axle Taco are in the running. I will say there are MANY capable rigs out there that aren't Yota too, but not likely to see me owning one if my options are limited. If I have to pick from my current Hurd I'd go with our 4th Gen 4R... 
-Daniel Kent
If space isn't an issue, a LC40, a solid axle Taco are in the running. I will say there are MANY capable rigs out there that aren't Yota too, but not likely to see me owning one if my options are limited. If I have to pick from my current Hurd I'd go with our 4th Gen 4R... -Daniel Kent